It’s like every time there’s a war everybody forgets how fucking long they take. WW2 took six years. The Vietnam War took almost 20 years, same with the Afghanistan War. Anybody expecting anything solid within the next couple years is delusional. Ukraine is in it for the long haul.
That’s not strictly true. On the short end, there was the six-day war. On the long end, there was the hundred years’ war.
Putin was clearly aiming for the short option, but then I suppose most belligerents usually are.
I’d actually love to see a graph that shows the distribution of lengths of various wars
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The Anglo-Zanzibar War lasted less than an hour
‘Gunboat diplomacy’ isn’t very diplomatic.
Dude took the low end and said “fuck that we’ll do it twice as fast.”
The good news is I don’t think Russia can continue to sustain these kind of losses for 199 more years.
Neither can Ukraine…
And Russia expected their little venture to be done in days.
It was never supposed to turn into a real war. They wanted to assassinate Zelenskyy put some Russian plant in as president, annex some more land and call it a night. Obviously Zelenskyy survived and the rest is history.
“No plan survives first contact with the enemy”
“Everyone has a plan 'till they get punched in the mouth."
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Frontlines were actually moving, especially in the Eastern Front. Not so much in China and the Pacific, though.
We can hope Putin dies from being an old fuck and Russia gives up
The US is on its last legs though. It badly needed this win. The US falls before Putin dies.
What drugs are you on and where can I get some?
Clearly hasn’t compared the US and Chinese economic data
Lol literally every single line of that post is absolutely nonsense.
The US is on its last legs though.
Lol in what universe? By way metric is the most powerful nation in the world limping along?
It badly needed this win.
If we badly needed a win we wouldn’t be sending 30+ year-old surplus gear. Ukraine would have F-35s instead of the air force trying to pawn off A-10s because we’re retiring them and don’t want to break them down.
The US falls before Putin dies.
Unless he’s a Highlander there’s no fucking chance.
I always take a peek at the comment history when I see things like this. And this guy basically just woke up to say things like this in one specific thread.
I’m no longer a mod of anything these days, but if I had a mod-hammer I’d send you into the next galaxy.
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That’s because it isn’t really about any particular military objective, it’s about creating business for the war industry.
“We’ll fight til the last Ukrainian!” - libs
“We shouldn’t help the rape victim and they should hope that it’s over quickly. Also, it’s actually not rape, it’s a special sexual operation and they deserved it.” - Tankies
And shelling civilians in the Donbas is presumably the equivalent of putting on a nice dress in your metaphor?
Make extremely inappropriate and wrong rape comparison ⇒ Accuse anyone who disagrees of being a rape apologist ⇒ FUCK TANKIES!
Extremely normal and sound logic there, definitely not just vibe-based emotional manipulation.
Ask Prigozhin whether that shelling actually happened. You swallowed Russian propaganda hook, line, and sinker.
OHCHR estimates that between mid-April 2014 and 31 May 2016, at least 9,404 people, of which up to 2,000 are civilians, have been killed as a result of the conflict. The vast majority of civilian casualties, recorded on the territories controlled by the Government of Ukraine and on those controlled by armed groups, were caused by the indiscriminate shelling of residential areas, in violation of the international humanitarian law principle of distinction.
Na better believe Prigozhin, that guy never told a lie or said anything that was totally wrong.
What do you believe your source to say, exactly? That Ukraine shelled indiscriminately? If so, you should read it again.
Yes it says that exactly, unless you think the “armed groups” shelled themselves.
You seem to hate nazis, but then you believe one when its convenient
curious
Funny how if you’re against another endless war you’re a tankie and support Putin…
I’m neither a tankie nor I support Putin. But I also don’t support NATO and the Empire.
But just as a note, most “tankies” don’t support Russia and know Putin is a conservative capitalist. I mean he is the direct result of the dismantling of the USSR by internal revisionists (tsarists and capitalists) and the CIA.
But again, it’s the Iraq war all over again. And you libs are doing THE SAME THING. It’s hilarious.
There’s a load of things I could say, but they would all be pointless, so I’m going to say this. It would be less depressing if you were actually being paid by the Russians.
EDIT: Which, you know, is not actually out of the question.
“Being against war means you are our enemy!” - the “pacifist”, “anti-war”, liberal.
it’s the Iraq war all over again
Oh so you’re against the invasion after all?
More than you guys it seems. You’re all salivating at the idea of Russians dying and this war never ending.
I’d be happy if Russia would simply send its soldiers home.
Me too. We take Putin out, return the USSR, and then we dismantle the far-right apparatus in Ukraine as well. We close all US military bases and shut down NATO.
We then impose on the US strict international laws to never have a military, to interfere or invade another nation again, or it’s dismantled and given to all 3rd world countries it fucked over the past 100 years.
Putin could stop this war and thus Russians from dying at any minute. He’d just have to give up on imperialism.
„Libs“ we’re against the Iraq war. It divided the US population and the whole western world. Never listened to American Idiot?
I’m confused. You want us to protest against one sort of imperialism, but not the other?
I think you’re remembering incorrectly bro… After 9/11, if you didn’t support invading any vaguely Muslim country you were a traitor. Fucking libs on TV were cheering for killing Saddam and invading Iraq, dismissing any attempts to question why would that even make sense as weak-spined traitorous behaviour.
Also, how can you say that while you support a never ending war in Ukraine?
Is Russia imperialist? Yes. Is this invasion a tragedy? Yes. Did it happen, and will continue to happen for a long time in good part because of the US? Fuck yes as well.
I don’t support Russia invading or winning the war. I don’t support NATO breaking its promises and meddling in Eastern Europe propping up Nazis.
The US Empire is directly responsible for Putin, in the first place. And it’s now directly responsible for the extreme right in Ukraine.
What anyone who’s actually against war wants is for the US Empire to fall and NATO to be dismantled. For Putin to fall and the Russian people to have freedom again. For the Nazis in Ukraine to not have power anymore.
If you support sending billions in weapons to Ukraine (as fucking debt, Ukraine will be in debt to the US and Europe for centuries…), if you support war games in South Korea, Taiwan, if you complained when Biden left Afghanistan… you’re literally a war hawk.
You blathering fool. I’m not your bro and never will be.
When you see a school bully who fights a smaller kid who doesn’t want to give up his lunch money, what do you do? You are the kind of person shouting at the victim to comply to avoid any further bloodshed, right? You’re fucking filth. I think I even watched a Star Trek episode about your fucking kind, lol.
Just for your information: NATO has nothing to do with this. Other than being a scapegoat of course. Quite the opposite, if Ukraine was part of NATO, this war would never happened. Why do you think Poland and the Chech Rebublic were so eager to join it? NATO is a defense pact. But I know, people like you don’t care. NATO is the big boogie man you need to justify your political views.
And no, I don’t remember incorrectly. The Bush regime was republican. They faked evidence to attack Iraq. The were huge demonstations and turmoil Google the Dixie Chicks, listen to American Idiot. I’m not american. I’m german. We were one of the countries who were part of a so called “axis of evil” because we didn’t agree with the war. Shut the fuck up.
I was always pretty left leaning. Never liked US-Imperialism since I got 16 and realised Tom Clancy Novels were pretty one-sided. But if supporting ukraine means I’m a Hawk, so be it. All I know is, I don’t want to be on your side!
We were one of the countries who were part of a so called “axis of evil”
Slight correction, no, they didn’t go that far. We’re “Old Europe”.
It was also when they renamed French Fries to Freedom Fries to protest the French being, well, French, as if the French wouldn’t already be constantly doing that. (Meanwhile Belgium was hoping someone would notice them).
Your comment truly reeks of “I’m pretty left leaning” lmao
It is 2023. I am being called a tankie for opposing the escalation of a needless slaughter engineered by the western military industial complex.
It is 2003. I am being called a Saddam lover for opposing the escalation of a needless slaughter engineered by the western military industial complex.
It is 1969. I am being called a commie and probably also racial slurs for opposing the escalation of a needless slaughter engineered by the western military industial complex.
Alexa play “Story of my life” by One Direction.
Commie
What are you, 80 years old? The modern term is “tankie”.
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Funny how pacifists are the first to cry when someone hits them.
Let’s not ruin pacifism, self-defense can be a form of it
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Pacifism can be both, ending all wars and defending against fascism
pacifism /ˈpasɪfɪz(ə)m/ noun the belief that war and violence are unjustifiable and that all disputes should be settled by peaceful means.
How is that funny
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*support
There’s a lot of angry liberals replying to your post, so I thought I’d link a great video on how/why the war in Ukraine came to be:
https://youtube.com/watch?v=LL4eNy4FCs8&si=gaMRzFwo5JP5RzeD
This channel is leftist but they aren’t communists, as far as I know.
Tldw: This war was completely avoidable. Had the US/NATO kept its promise to not expand eastward none of this would have happened. Even Biden said that 25 years ago. Americans groomed certain Ukrainians for political office, and prevented others from running. There was an opportunity to end the war last year on somewhat decent terms for Ukraine, but Boris Johnson rushed in to stop it from happening, promising massive support. But war exhaustion has caught up and Ukraine is running out of people, and western leaders are already starting to call for the end of the war — except this time it will be on russias terms and Ukraine is going to get fucked. Big western capitalists have had their fingers in this pie because there’s a lot of money to be made in the country. That’s it.
Anyone with two brain cells to rub together knows that Putins invasion was a horrific, imperialist move. Any commie you see protesting the war isn’t doing it because they support Russia (Russia is a capitalist country), they’re doing it because they don’t support NATO. We are often the makers of our own enemies here in the west. Viet Cong, Taliban, ISIS, and Russia were all created or shaped by western (mainly US) policies.
Seems like to you being a lib means not falling for badly researched, one-sided videos?
You didn’t watch the video did you? They don’t mention anything that
All you liberals give cons a lot of shit for being bloodthirsty war hawks but you froth at the mouth at the thought of war too. You’ll look at situations like what’s happening in Gabon and Niger, say “wow the French are fucked and they kind of deserve it for what they did to those countries”, and then develop an amazing blind spot for western imperialism in Eastern Europe.
Obviously this war shouldn’t have happened. Obviously Putin is an asshole. Obviously what’s happening in Ukraine needs to be stopped.
We (the west) made our own monster though.
All you liberals give cons
All this my team, your team rhetoric…
Honest question, but how many times a day do you think about events and try to fit them into one of these two categories? At what point do you start using these terms interchangeably for good and evil?
These days, I try to skip posts from people who crossed that line. Left, right or centre. If someone has limited their mental capacity to binary decisions, it’s not worth arguing with them, because the answer to everything will always be “my team”.
Libs gonna lib man…
You should probably judge by the video, you moron
Here is an alternative Piped link(s): https://piped.video/watch?v=wjU-ve4Pn4k
Piped is a privacy-respecting open-source alternative frontend to YouTube.
I’m open-source, check me out at GitHub.
Thanks I’ll watch it when I’m home from work. Right now it looks like it’s just some guy talking, whereas the video I linked only talks about things that are public knowledge. I haven’t watched yours yet though.
Here is an alternative Piped link(s): https://piped.video/watch?v=LL4eNy4FCs8&
Piped is a privacy-respecting open-source alternative frontend to YouTube.
I’m open-source, check me out at GitHub.
You know what? I never thought I’d say this but I’m with Ukraine on this one.
This whole counter offensive insanity is so militarily nonsensical that it had to have been mounted to please the West with a “win” so that they’d stay in the war. Real Chiang Kai Shek committing the best of the KMT army to Shanghai to impress the Westerners energy.
The West is standing on the sidelines, supplying just enough equipment to keep the embers going and judging the ordinary Ukrainians going to their deaths by their hundreds.
Fuck the clowns in charge in Kiev and fuck the Nazi militias obviously. But at this point the men being sent to the front are old men and boys dragged off the street against their will. Sending them to die to appease the West is fucking sick.
The comment threads here are weird. Who, in their right mind, would ever support a country like Russia? It’s mind blowing.
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There sure are a lot of Lemmy bro-gaders and NATO shillbots I’m this thread. That’s the only explanation for people disagreeing with me.
Everyone point & laugh at the sad tankie in this thread.
Damn we don’t see them on blahaj :<
Lucky
* Scared
Ignorant
Has blahaj banned hexbear?
So has beehaw.
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I can always tell when I’m browsing Lemmy from my lemm.ee account vs lemmy.world by the sheer number of tankies spouting nonsense.
the most intellectually advanced liberal has logged on
Any actual rebuttal or just gonna roll out the usual libshit jab and run along? America has blood on its hands for a lot of things, it found out once and might find out again if it isn’t careful.
What exactly do you think it found out?
A shitload of oil
That if you spend decades destabilising a region in the name of oil, occasionally the people that are getting shit on will do something about it.
Okay but how did the US find out?
What do you think 9/11 was?
I think 9/11 was a terrorist attack by a fundamentalist Islamic terrorist organization motivated by Bin Laden issuing fatāwā against America for stationing troops in Saudi Arabia and for supporting Israel. I think Bin Laden stating that he believed that it was a justified attack because of America’s support for Israel points pretty solidly at the motivation behind the attacks:
“…it was a response to injustice, aimed at forcing America to stop its support for Israel…”
Also this from his video where he admits that he was behind the attacks and says that he was motivated by Israel bombing Lebanon
“…it entered my mind that we should punish the oppressor in kind and that we should destroy towers in America in order that they taste some of what we tasted…”
Interested in why you think oil had anything to do with 9/11. The destabilizing countries for oil stuff mostly came after 9/11. Middle Eastern hatred for America was mainly fueled by our support for Israel, and partially because Saudi Arabia had American military bases. Oil was not an interest to these terrorist groups until after Iraq.
Sources for those quotes:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/1729882.stm
https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2004/11/1/full-transcript-of-bin-ladins-speech
America was there for the oil, the destability came as a result and that came well before 9/11. Anyway, it’d be great if they’d stop meddling in everyone’s business for their own selfish reasons and that includes the endless NATO sabre rattling under the guise of fReEdOm.
Make yourself like the USSR and make yourself scarce.
Imagine being the kind loser who thinks that Russia today is preferable to USSR. 😂
doing my duty by brigading (commenting on the number 1 post on all)
No shit. Western training and equipment is not fit for purpose. Acting as a colonial cop by bombing with impunity ≠ attacking the strongest defensive lines of the 21st century. All their wunderwaffe just gets blown up by mines or drones.
Pretty telling that the new line being fed to NATO worshippers is ‘don’t say anything critical about our objective failures’. This is, ironically, the same message Goebbels pushed when failures began to mount on the eastern front after Stalingrad and then Kursk. As the Soviet steamroller continued to Berlin, the line in the media was ‘it is unpatriotic to say we are losing’. And then they lost.
Somewhere in the Pentagon there surely must be a series of rooms isolated for this war. In them intelligence is gathered, counterparts in Ukraine can be in instant contact, resources from both armies are tracked, tactics are formulated, simulations are run. How do I know this? Because this would be too good of a learning opportunity to pass up.
And those folks ain’t talking.
Well that and because its a US proxy war. With Ukrainians being slaughtered to further US goals
Gee…lookee there…an uninformed rant. And what is that goal?
two sentences is hardly a rant and there are plenty of quotes from american officials and armchair generals about how this war is great because it’s degrading “our enemy” without costing american lives.
I believe that degrading the army of one of the US greatest geopolitical world rivals at the cost of roughly 3% of the DoD budget is money well spent. In that there is no US blood is an added advantage. The Ukrainians are fighting this war for their own purpose, to reject tyrannical rule. That’s something that’s happened for a millennium, including the American revolution.
The US didn’t impose this war, 100,000 Russians invading did. As France helped the US during the revolution, the US helps Ukraine.
I believe that degrading the army of one of the US greatest geopolitical world rivals at the cost of roughly 3% of the DoD budget is money well spent.
They’re not gonna let you into the club just because you lick the boot leather. I believe the 100.000s of dead ukrainians are more important than some vague US geopolitical goal.
The Ukrainians are fighting this war for their own purpose, to reject tyrannical rule.
The ukrainians are forcibly conscripted and banned from leaving their country. They do not want to fight.
The US didn’t impose this war, 100,000 Russians invading did
Yeah one day putler just woke up and felt like invading, that’s what happened.
If you think this is such a good war, go volunteer.
The Ukrainians could stop this war anytime they want, as could Putin.
Reality is the Russians invaded. They rejected world order.
They rejected world order.
Based.
The Ukrainians could stop this war anytime they want
The Ukrainian government could, the same government that banned every political party that wasn’t sufficiently anti-Russia. And the last time the people got to vote, they elected Zelensky who ran as a peace candidate. So no, the people of Ukraine, the ones being drafted and sent to the front lines, have very little say over whether Ukraine negotiates for peace.
The world order where the US is allowed to invade Iraq and kill a million people on a lie? That world order?
The Ukrainians could stop this war anytime they want, as could Putin.
The ukrainians are being forcibly conscripted and banned from leaving the country. They do not want to fight. The russians have sought peace negotiations several times, NATO-members like the United Kingdom, have come and stopped these negotiations.
Reality is the Russians invaded. They rejected world order.
Ah yes, one day evil putler woke up and decided to invade, that’s what happened. He rejected our Good Guys Rules Based Order because he’s just such an evil dude.
Lol, lmao even
“They rejected world order” I think you should be killed like someone in the Bible
”This is a US proxy war.”
”That’s an uninformed rant!”
…
”This is a US proxy war, and that’s a good thing.”
Proxy War…
a war instigated by a major power which does not itself become involved.
You are saying that the US had a role in instigating this war? What was it? Sounds like Putin’s language to justify his stupidity
The coup that they orchestrated in 2014 with the help of Nazis and Victoria Nuland. https://truthout.org/articles/the-ukraine-mess-that-nuland-made/
The Ukrainians are fighting this war for their own purpose, to reject tyrannical rule.
Yes good thing their escaping tyrannical rule for totally wholesome democratic rule… That bans all opposition parties and bombs their own country for nearly a decade
The Russians have flattened whole cities.
Just found out what war is. Damn that shit sucks
Real “Antifa is burning cities to the ground!” Energy
I believe that degrading the army of one of the US greatest geopolitical world rivals at the cost of roughly 3% of the DoD budget is money well spent.
Which is why so many nations are smelling the blood in the water and casting off their western neocolonial overlords in Africa right now.
Lmao.
In that there is no US blood is an added advantage.
Yes, Niger is a harbinger of the future…right
i think we know why you find that idea unpalatableI mean yes, we are literally seeing more military coups in Africa by left wing folks who are quoting beloved anti-colonial icons, making concrete steps toward proletarian democratic elections and walking the walk on panafricanism. Algeria literally just blocked France from transporting troops through their country. Plenty of people are using the Amerikkkan empire and its European vassals being distracted and exhausted to cast off their shackles.
oh look we found the intern at Langley
Department of Naval IntelligenceAmerican revolution was a counterrevolution you dolt. Now go ahead, tell me I “support the British empire” bc you can only think exactly one step ahead.
“US Blood”
You’re a monster lmao gtfo
Who gives a fuck about the money? Hundreds of thousands are dead, and we are close to nuclear annihilation.
You are enthralled to a demon. Wake up and imagine you were marched to the frontlines.
to reject tyrannical rule. That’s something that’s happened for a millennium, including the American revolution.
https://readsettlers.org/ch2.html
long extract from Settlers about the nature of the 1776 revolution
We need to see the dialectical unity of democracy and oppression in developing settler Amerika. The winning of citizenship rights by poorer settlers or non-Anglo-Saxon Europeans is democratic in form. The enrollment of the white masses into new, mass instruments of repression-such as the formation of the infamous Slave Patrols in Virginia in 1727 — is obviously anti-democratic and reactionary. Yet these opposites in form are, in their essence, united as aspects of creating the new citizenry of Babylon. This is why our relationship to “democratic” struggles among the settlers has not been one of simple unity.
This was fully proven in practice once again by the 1776 War of Independence, a war in which most of the Indian and Afrikan peoples opposed settler nationhood and the consolidation of Amerika. In fact, the majority of oppressed people gladly allied themselves to the British forces in hopes of crushing the settlers.
This clash, between an Old European empire and the emerging Euro-Amerikan empire, was inevitable decades before actual fighting came. The decisive point came when British capitalism decided to clip the wings of the new Euro-Amerikan bourgeoisie — they restricted emigration, hampered industry and trade, and pursued a long-range plan to confine the settler population to a controllable strip of territory along the Atlantic seacoast. They proposed, for their own imperial needs, that the infant Amerika be permanently stunted. After all, the European conquest of just the Eastern shores of North America had already produced, by the time of Independence, a population almost one-third as large as that of England and Ireland. They feared that unchecked, the Colonial tail might someday wag the imperial dog (as indeed it has).
…
Like Bacon’s Rebellion, the “liberty” that the Amerikan Revolutionists of the 1770’s fought for was in large part the freedom to conquer new Indian lands and profit from the commerce of the slave trade, without any restrictions or limitations. In other words, the bourgeois “freedom” to oppress and exploit others. The successful future of the settler capitalists demanded the scope of independent nationhood.
But as the first flush of settler enthusiasm faded into the unhappy realization of how grim and bloody this war would be, the settler “sunshine soldiers” faded from the ranks to go home and stay home. Almost one-third of the Continental Army deserted at Valley Forge. So enlistment bribes were widely offered to get recruits. New York State offered new enlistments 400 acres each of Indian land. Virginia offered an enlistment bonus of an Afrikan slave (guaranteed to be not younger than age ten) and 100 acres of Indian land. In South Carolina, Gen. Sumter used a share-the-loot scheme, whereby each settler volunteer would get an Afrikan captured from Tory estates. Even these extraordinarily generous offers failed to spark any sacrificial enthusiasm among the settler masses. (14)
It was Afrikans who greeted the war with great enthusiasm. But while the settler slavemasters sought “democracy” through wresting their nationhood away from England, their slaves sought liberation by overthrowing Amerika or escaping from it. Far from being either patriotic Amerikan subjects or passively enslaved neutrals, the Afrikan masses threw themselves daringly and passionately into the jaws of war on an unprecedented scale — that is, into their own war, against slave Amerika and for freedom.
The British, short of troops and laborers, decided to use both the Indian nations and the Afrikan slaves to help bring down the settler rebels. This was nothing unique; the French had extensively used Indian military alliances and the British extensively used Afrikan slave recruits in their 1756-63 war over North America (called “The French & Indian War” in settler history books). But the Euro-Amerikan settlers, sitting on the dynamite of a restive, nationally oppressed Afrikan population, were terrified — and outraged.
This was the final proof to many settlers of King George III’s evil tyranny. An English gentlewoman traveling in the Colonies wrote that popular settler indignation was so great that it stood to unite rebels and Tories again. (15) Tom Paine, in his revolutionary pamphlet Common Sense, raged against “…that barbarous and hellish power which hath stirred up Indians and Negroes to destroy us.” (16) But oppressed peoples saw this war as a wonderful contradiction to be exploited in the ranks of the European capitalists.
Lord Dunmore was Royal Governor of Virginia in name, but ruler over so little that he had to reside aboard a British warship anchored offshore. Urgently needing reinforcements for his outnumbered command, on Nov. 5, 1775 he issued a proclamation that any slaves enlisting in his forces would be freed. Sir Henry Clinton, commander of British forces in North America, later issued an even broader offer:
I do most strictly forbid any Person to sell or claim Right over any Negroe, the property of a Rebel, who may claim refuge in any part of this Army; And I do promise to every Negroe who shall desert the Rebel Standard, full security to follow within these Lines, any Occupation which he shall think proper. (17)
Could any horn have called more clearly? By the thousands upon thousands, Afrikans struggled to reach British lines. One historian of the Exodus has said: “The British move was countered by the Americans, who exercised closer vigilance over their slaves, removed the able-bodied to interior places far from the scene of the war, and threatened with dire punishment all who sought to join the enemy. To Negroes attempting to flee to the British the alternatives ‘Liberty or Death’ took on an almost literal meaning. Nevertheless, by land and sea they made their way to the British forces.” (18)
The war was a disruption to Slave Amerika, a chaotic gap in the European capitalist ranks to be hit hard. Afrikans seized the time — not by the tens or hundreds, but by the many thousands. Amerika shook with the tremors of their movement. The signers of the Declaration of Independence were bitter about their personal losses: Thomas Jefferson lost many of his slaves; Virginia’s Governor Benjamin Harrison lost thirty of “my finest slaves”; William Lee lost sixty-five slaves, and said two of his neighbors “lost every slave they had in the world”; South Carolina’s Arthur Middleton lost fifty slaves. (19)
Afrikans were writing their own “Declaration of Independence” by escaping. Many settler patriots tried to appeal to the British forces to exercise European solidarity and expel the Rebel slaves. George Washington had to denounce his own brother for bringing food to the British troops, in a vain effort to coax them into returning the Washington family slaves. (20) Yes, the settler patriots were definitely upset to see some real freedom get loosed upon the land.
To this day no one really knows how many slaves freed themselves during the war. Georgia settlers were said to have lost over 10,000 slaves, while the number of Afrikan escaped prisoners in South Carolina and Virginia was thought to total well over 50,000. Many, in the disruption of war, passed themselves off as freemen and relocated in other territories, fled to British Florida and Canada, or took refuge in Maroon communities or with the Indian nations. It has been estimated that 100,000 Afrikan prisoners — some 20% of the slave population — freed themselves during the war.
Mao like prepubesent little girls.
“here is a book that lays out why what you are saying is colonial apologia, with a link to read more if you want to, and the important bits directly quoted for you for your convenience”
“have you considered that somebody who wouldn’t be born for over a hundred years after this is bad?”
what does this have to do with anything?
Bazinga
there is no US blood
Go yell at your stepson you shifty guilty scam artist
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Nothing to fix.
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Under achievement
Fuck this tankie shit. I knew lemmy was made by tankies, I did not know that majority of people here are also russian shills
Don’t blame us because reality is Marxist
“Shills” implies we’re being paid and I take offense to that because I wish I were getting paid for this
You just gotta send an email to President xi for your posterbucks. Xxxi@langley.gov
Hell yeah dude you should own us by leaving
malding that a social platform made by tankies is filled with tankies
Not the sharpest tool in the shed, are we?
For sure. Thinking of this war as a giant test ground for defense industry ghouls to experiment on is horrifying
The US has had its weapons used in conflicts for years. Yes, they do what they’re supposed to do. Not much to learn, really.
Then why do you think they’re gathering intel? Surely the situation is very different in Ukraine. A weapon system is context dependent, it doesn’t exist in a vacuum.
Intel is a tool which the US has high capability and it takes many forms. I am sure we share this intel with the Ukrainians
Who is this we? And why are you so sure? I’m not saying you are some guy working for the government I’m just saying you are making shit up and read too much of OSINT twitter so you feel ‘in the know’. You don’t know what intel is being gathered, if that intel even gets out or not. Like why should the US feel compelled to share with Ukraine? Because they are on the same side? From the few statements they seem more interested in using the war to pay off the MIC similar to Afghanistan and it doesn’t seem like any intel was gained over a 20 year period.
I am sure because it is publicly reported that we (the US) does share intelligence with Ukraine. Hope that helps
“we (the US)”
Imagine identifying with the US imperialist world order. They aren’t going to let you wear the boot, no matter how hard you lick
we (the US)
Lol that’s not how this works. Saying “We share intelligence” is worlds apart from what you want to imply here, again stop being some weird wannabe OSINT guy, at most Ukranians get satellite images which technically is ‘sharing intelligence’ but not what you are trying to imply here.
Not as much intelligence as it shares with discord leaker man. Lots of those docs were classified noforn.
Just another stunning victory of US intelligence.
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Either way they work the same.
Judging by the number of western vehicles lost to mines in the last few weeks alone they do not perform the same fighting a peer military with access to large amounts of modern equipment vs ill equipped militias fighting an insurgency
You expect those vehicles will not be damaged by mines huh.
No, but they haven’t faced massive minefields, helicopter gunships, artillery, electronic countermeasures, airstrikes, etc when occupying Iraq or Afghanistan. Fighting guerrillas and fighting a peer army are two entirely different beasts, and we see the proof in more western tanks being lost in 2 months than USA lost in 2 decades in Iraq or Afghanistan
A butter knife works the same when cutting butter or steel. It still isn’t useful for cutting steel. This is what they’re trying to communicate.
A reaper drone works the same when blowing up random weddings or when flying in airspace with a networked AA system of S300s, S400s, and S500s
Which is to say we know the underlying physics continues to operate the same but the context changes how useful the equipment is, because a butterknife is made for butter and a Reaper is made for blowing up weddings without an air defense network nearby.
so, not at all, considering they even lost in Afghanistan
There you go. Time to give Ukraine some AC 130 gun ships. Good suggestion.
What, are there Russian hospitals in need of bombing? C130 can’t operate if there is air defense
They had gunships in Afghanistan and US still lost, not sure I see your point here. Not to mention the Taliban didn’t have close to the anti-aircraft capabilities that the Russian military has. AC-130s work fine for bombing defenseless hospitals, but against a force with radar, electronic countermeasures, anti-aircraft missiles, fighter jets, and all the other tools that a modern military has access to? I think the gunships would not be nearly as effective as you think
Russia has the best air defense in the world. C-130 is a big slow moving target. Even in Afghanistan they operated only at night.
That must be why America keeps losing to farmers on the opposite side of the world.
Not really, no.
I mean … calling Russia’s military a “peer” is a stretch.
Is it?
I do find these comments entertaining. It reinforces my belief that US hubris is leading to it’s decline. Imagine believing your own lies when its literally your country’s existence on the line.
… K
We clearly have fundamental, serious issues – but you’d have to be completely delusional if “actual millitary strength” is something you think the USA lacks and Russia is anyway comparable. They’re in a stalemate with with a small country using 40 year old western equipment.
The US lost Afghanistan where their enemies had no airsupport and old equipmemt and weren’t being supplied by the global hegemon. They also lost Vietnam which they fought a much smaller less well equipped country.
So it seems you aren’t aware about the $50 billion of military hardware, training, mercenaries, and aid that NATO have provided Ukraine since 2014. Are you being disingeneous for the sake of winning the argument or are you acting in good faith? I need to know whether I should continue to engage or if you’re just trolling/playing dumb.
All those folks in the 50+ age group that grew up with “Russia is enemy #1” are probably cycling through waves of intense work and prolonged orgasm.
I wouldn’t be surprised if one of the first things considered in strategizing any armed conflict is whether they want Russia and China to know that we have X or are capable of Y. Russia has shown their hand. If they could do more, they would have by now.
It has also taught NATO that Russia is still in the barbaric tactics mindset. Hospitals, schools, churches, shipping centers - they’re all valid targets. If Russia wants a position, they’ll level the entire town. That certainly changes the plans, of anyone thought they would abode by the Geneva Conventions.
All those folks in the 50+ age group that grew up with “Russia is enemy #1” are probably cycling through waves of intense work and prolonged orgasm.
The ones that haven’t suddenly decided that Russia is our best friend all of a sudden for some reason that I still can’t figure out. This is even considering that Russia was found to have been paying out bounties on dead American soldiers, or that they had people assassinated in the UK. Certainly it should be a disqualifier that Russia isn’t a true Democracy and had Putin’s political opponents jailed. Two Democracies won’t directly start a conflict against each other, but that doesn’t hold up between Democracies and non-Democracies.
My hope is that as Russia runs out of money and organization to fund overseas psyops, the sheen will wear off.
My hope is that as Russia runs out of money and organization to fund overseas psyops, the sheen will wear off.
Same, feels like the democracies of the world really got caught with their pants down by authoritarian operatives and their LLMs on social media.
Putin will only run out of money once the price of oil nosedives.
That won’t happen because Saudi Arabia has been squeezing oil output to keep the price high because they need the money for their countries transformation to a horror Show (different discussion required there) and they basically keep squeezing until the US gives them a whole lot of concessions that they don’t want to…
The ones that haven’t suddenly decided that Russia is our best friend all of a sudden for some reason that I still can’t figure out.
The reason is money. Either they got paid by Putin or they’ve been brainwashed by someone who got paid by Putin.
The Russians have less tactics and capabilities than NATO thought. Now it is a matter of how quickly they can be overwhelmed should it come to it. Their big problem is mid level command.
And what they do have was built and developed by the Soviets.
It has also taught NATO that Russia is still in the barbaric tactics mindset.
Oh those backwards Russians, still stuck in the past, where they were just a bunch of barbarian hordes. I assume the West, by contrast, has developed a civilized kind of warfare, as befitting their superior civilized culture? That’s what you’re saying, right?
The civilized West would never… oh yeah they would and they did, repeatedly, and it was worse actually in e.g. Iraq. So all this “barbarism” shit is just racism with no basis in reality.
Or both sides suck and all war is bad, and no one should attack sovereign countries
Russia is still using barbaric tactics, according to the person I replied to. This implies that barbarism is typical (and backwards) of Russia, like that racist trope about barbaric Mongol hordes. It also implies that someone else (presumably NATO, which they mention) isn’t using barbaric tactics, which is blatantly untrue.
I don’t understand how what you wrote is a addressing my post? What’s your point?
Has Russia been bombing civilian apartment buildings in Ukraine?
Please note, I am asking nothing about NATO or America. I agree, the US has committed atrocities in other countries at war. I’m asking specifically if Russia has bombed civilian apartment buildings in Ukraine.
So it’s not racist to say Russia is still in a barbaric mindset, because they are bombing apartment buildings in Ukraine? Is that it? Even though the way it was phrased implies that barbarism is typical of Russia and its history, and also falsely implies NATO isn’t barbaric and isn’t doing the same thing, and it’s a well-known racist trope?
This person’s comment exhibits the common double standard of the good civilized nations vs. the uncivilized primitives bullshit, which is about the oldest racist narrative there is.
I didn’t say anything about the people. Every Russian person I have met is super nice.
Governments though, they suck. Governments bomb apartment buildings full of people. These particular governments are barbaric.
I think it is important to acknowledge that both the US government and the Russian government are responsible for terrible atrocities. It is not racist to say that.
Someone should go bunker-hunting as a ‘lost urbex enthusiast’ and put them on a map. Maybe some backchannel archive in case they go ‘missing’. Once the list/map goes public, thousands of unmissed tech sociopaths turn to pink mist overnight.
the whole world is sending people to become veterans so they can return with their experience and become trainers.
Cold weather begins to hit in October. It’s not just “slow”, it’s over.
Haters gonna hate. Still though, they’ll need to be cordial if some of these critics are also paying Ukrainian bills. Being rude is the fast track to falling out of favor with foriegn taxpayers.
Have you seen how Israel conducts diplomacy with the US?
Well Zelensky did say that he was inspired by Israel and wanted to model Ukraine to be like Israel.
By slaughtering innocent minorities and stealing their land?
Yeah considering that’s what they were doing in Donbass
Even Prigozhin said that the supposed genocide in Donbas is 100% a Russian propaganda fabrication. Stop parroting that bullshit.
So you agree with fascist mercenaries? Cool to know.
I don’t trust Russia, but Pringles was not exactly an uninpeachable source of truth himself
They’re tired and weary from the onslaught of war fringe to safe their country from Putins aggression. Any dig at their progress is a dig at morale that spreads not only through the ranks, but also to the general public. There is a time for constructive criticism, but that should be done in private with actual solutions offered by those criticizing. I understand their needs to be some decorum but you can’t blame them for what I would consider a mild retort as their countrymen die trying to retake their land everyday.
Yeah, but like, they are their worst countrymen. Nazis and such. No one in the war stands to win anything. They will still pay their landlords and the corrupt banks for the right to live in now freshly burned down houses. Wages will stay super low, the wartime reduction becoming a reconstruction reduction whenever it ends. Anyone from Ukraine who is able to escape the nazis ought to defect to Russia where they would be taken care of a little better.
Yeah, but like, they are their worst countrymen. Nazis and such.
Regular people are being drafted, it’s not just Nazis dying.
I wouldn’t die for a nazi would you?
Hopping from a nation which employs fascist militia to a fascist-governed one isn’t a solution to anything. All fascists involved suck shit but sheesh, let’s not hope for a worse outcome
what do you expect ukraine’s internal politics to look like after the war?
Like the Baltics post fall of the Soviet Union: Beeline for EU membership. Also Zelensky already said that Ukraine is willing to let go of Belgorod in exchange for NATO membership.
They can fuck off. Europeans are already paying through the nose for America’s terrorist attack on our infrastructure. Paying for America’s latest war is not going to happen.
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And I was parroting it.
But I wouldn’t be surprised if Ukraine at some point occupies some fields somewhere just to make sure that whoever’s going to be in power after Putin will be disposed is going to sit down and talk reparations etc.
Belgorod, where is that?
Full blown mess
Interesting way of saying fascist
Would be pretty fash to see it as a nice thing eh?
Hopping from a nation which employs fascist militia to a fascist-governed one isn’t a solution to anything. All fascists involved suck shit but sheesh, let’s not hope for a worse outcome
Hopping from a country in which Nazism is official policy to one in which Nazism is outlawed. It really is exactly the same, which is why the people who say this always make excuses for Ukraine and the fascist dictatorship masquerading as democracy which is the USA.
Nazism is outlawed
is it tho 🤨
There’s a recent story about Russia’s rehabilitation of Nazism law here:
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-65024254
It was implemented years ago, at which time the American corporate press did quite a lot of hand-wringing over protecting Nazis’ right to openly plan the extermination of Jews like me. When your own media sources are defending Nazism, maybe it’s time for a little self-examination and reflection?
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Whose media?
Maybe Putin didn’t get the not-fash-memo 🤔
It’s not about decorum, it’s about the pointless deaths of hundreds of thousands.
Not trying to hate, but you narrowed in on excusing Ukraine for saying a mean thing to the West and its supporters. Reexamine your priorities.
Well said.
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IMO these critics are used to air superiority which Ukraine doesn’t have.
Good for Kyiv. Those armchair generals should shut up and fight if they think things are going slowly.
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