I saw it as more of a statement on how producers/writers/whoever perceive their audiences. They think that just seeing Batman beat the shit out of a guy isn’t exciting/engaging enough, but having him then say something “relatable” will evoke a positive response.
Dialogue in MCU movies has heavy use of quips and self-referencing. Joss Whedon is credited with popularizing this style and it’s been common in a lot of media from 2000s-2010s. The trend is shifting now so the style is more recognizable as something belonging to that era. It’s like how with older media you can place it’s decade even if you don’t know exactly how.
It’s an insincere way of writing but not everyone cares or perceives it that way, and having sincerity isn’t even necessary all the time. Part of the issue with self-referencing is it takes for granted that the audience understands they are watching a movie and uses that as a point of irony. Like there will be a pretty “serious” scene with maybe an impassioned speech or realizing what has to be done to stop the bad guy, and then a character will be like “well I guess it’s time to do the action scene now” or something to that effect. It’s like the characters are saying “you’re watching an MCU movie, here’s what happens in these types of movies.” A sex scene would be like “so… were all alone now… I guess this is when we’re supposed to engage in sexual intercourse.” With quips they might be funny but people don’t actually talk like that and it can be a crutch for humor, so when overused some people notice it more than others and it’s not something that everyone will think is funny.
You have perfectctly described what I have been trying to grasp for years. I’ve found myself liking less and less so many movies from the last ~20 years, but I just couldn’t put my finger on what specifically the reason was. I knew I didn’t like the writing, and especially didn’t like the humor (in particular how forced it felt), but I couldn’t determine quite why.
What I did know is that it felt like writers saw their audiences as big dumb idiots who can’t detect any nuance in writing, and need everything spelled out for them. It made many movies unwatchably unenjoyable, to the point that I have only seen… I think 5 of the MCU movies (a few of the early ones, a fee of the more recent ones).
Sometimes with media studies it’s better not to know cause it can ruin your enjoyment and make you overly critical, I’ve just accepted to enjoy trash for what it is and not judge people for liking it cause everyone has some trash they enjoy. It’s fun to understand why trash is trash though and make fun of it in a non-elitist way.
But yeah the quick quippy self-referencing dialogue I really don’t enjoy and it’s what’s permeated a lot of stuff in recent years, I much preferred the over-the-top 90s style with a lot of physical stage acting to back it up. Characters just standing there trying to out-quip each other just isn’t enjoyable for me. A lot of the MCU characters are written as narcissists as well, that’s not necessarily bad cause there’s amazing narcissist characters, but it’s not really in line with their roles in the stories. This might be going a bit too far but there’s also some fascist themes in the MCU, but that critique has to get in to a lot more than just MCU. Toure Reed has some interesting writing on that.
I haven’t seen any of the Marvel stuff since Endgame, except for perhaps the deadpool movies. It went from fun, cheesy, and lighthearted to just depressing.
And the blatant product placement really got on my nerves as well. Fucking Audi.
Oh man, and BMW. They devoted a whole scene in the second Avengers movie to Black Widow riding one through the streets so she could contribute to the fight by grabbing Captain America’s shield.
It was portrayed as so epic, too. The way Hawkeye said “Give 'em hell!” You’d think she was about to deploy in an iron man suit or something and actually start kicking ass.
Nope, she’s just the maid. Gotta get that bike in the movie somehow!
I dislike this for the same reason I dislike the Wilhelm Scream, it breaks the immersing and reminds you that you’re watching a movie. Then, instead of the story, you’re thinking about the actual making of the film etc.
Yea Wilhelm is practically an easter egg at this point for the true film buffffss. I don’t mind it but it’s definitely focus breaking in that way, and the MCU stuff wouldn’t be so bad if it wasn’t so overdone. Like when Firefly came out I didn’t mind that style of dialogue, all the characters are basically Joss Whedon but it’s his show and Buffy was sort of like that too… but now it’s like every character is a little Joss Whedon and it’s just too much Whedon.
Imagine if Wes Anderson’s idiosyncratic understated dialogue became a thing everyone did. I totally get why people don’t like his movies but I can appreciate what he’s doing for what it is. I would hate them if that style became common.
I don’t think I’m alone in saying this: uhh, what?
Terminally online person thinks people really hate DC or Marvel like they do.
I saw it as more of a statement on how producers/writers/whoever perceive their audiences. They think that just seeing Batman beat the shit out of a guy isn’t exciting/engaging enough, but having him then say something “relatable” will evoke a positive response.
Dialogue in MCU movies has heavy use of quips and self-referencing. Joss Whedon is credited with popularizing this style and it’s been common in a lot of media from 2000s-2010s. The trend is shifting now so the style is more recognizable as something belonging to that era. It’s like how with older media you can place it’s decade even if you don’t know exactly how.
It’s an insincere way of writing but not everyone cares or perceives it that way, and having sincerity isn’t even necessary all the time. Part of the issue with self-referencing is it takes for granted that the audience understands they are watching a movie and uses that as a point of irony. Like there will be a pretty “serious” scene with maybe an impassioned speech or realizing what has to be done to stop the bad guy, and then a character will be like “well I guess it’s time to do the action scene now” or something to that effect. It’s like the characters are saying “you’re watching an MCU movie, here’s what happens in these types of movies.” A sex scene would be like “so… were all alone now… I guess this is when we’re supposed to engage in sexual intercourse.” With quips they might be funny but people don’t actually talk like that and it can be a crutch for humor, so when overused some people notice it more than others and it’s not something that everyone will think is funny.
You have perfectctly described what I have been trying to grasp for years. I’ve found myself liking less and less so many movies from the last ~20 years, but I just couldn’t put my finger on what specifically the reason was. I knew I didn’t like the writing, and especially didn’t like the humor (in particular how forced it felt), but I couldn’t determine quite why.
What I did know is that it felt like writers saw their audiences as big dumb idiots who can’t detect any nuance in writing, and need everything spelled out for them. It made many movies unwatchably unenjoyable, to the point that I have only seen… I think 5 of the MCU movies (a few of the early ones, a fee of the more recent ones).
Thank you for helping me to understand.
Sometimes with media studies it’s better not to know cause it can ruin your enjoyment and make you overly critical, I’ve just accepted to enjoy trash for what it is and not judge people for liking it cause everyone has some trash they enjoy. It’s fun to understand why trash is trash though and make fun of it in a non-elitist way.
But yeah the quick quippy self-referencing dialogue I really don’t enjoy and it’s what’s permeated a lot of stuff in recent years, I much preferred the over-the-top 90s style with a lot of physical stage acting to back it up. Characters just standing there trying to out-quip each other just isn’t enjoyable for me. A lot of the MCU characters are written as narcissists as well, that’s not necessarily bad cause there’s amazing narcissist characters, but it’s not really in line with their roles in the stories. This might be going a bit too far but there’s also some fascist themes in the MCU, but that critique has to get in to a lot more than just MCU. Toure Reed has some interesting writing on that.
I haven’t seen any of the Marvel stuff since Endgame, except for perhaps the deadpool movies. It went from fun, cheesy, and lighthearted to just depressing.
And the blatant product placement really got on my nerves as well. Fucking Audi.
Oh man, and BMW. They devoted a whole scene in the second Avengers movie to Black Widow riding one through the streets so she could contribute to the fight by grabbing Captain America’s shield.
It was portrayed as so epic, too. The way Hawkeye said “Give 'em hell!” You’d think she was about to deploy in an iron man suit or something and actually start kicking ass.
Nope, she’s just the maid. Gotta get that bike in the movie somehow!
I dislike this for the same reason I dislike the Wilhelm Scream, it breaks the immersing and reminds you that you’re watching a movie. Then, instead of the story, you’re thinking about the actual making of the film etc.
Yea Wilhelm is practically an easter egg at this point for the true film buffffss. I don’t mind it but it’s definitely focus breaking in that way, and the MCU stuff wouldn’t be so bad if it wasn’t so overdone. Like when Firefly came out I didn’t mind that style of dialogue, all the characters are basically Joss Whedon but it’s his show and Buffy was sort of like that too… but now it’s like every character is a little Joss Whedon and it’s just too much Whedon.
Imagine if Wes Anderson’s idiosyncratic understated dialogue became a thing everyone did. I totally get why people don’t like his movies but I can appreciate what he’s doing for what it is. I would hate them if that style became common.