Watch the full conversation here: https://youtube.com/live/OVl9FGe8fno?feature=shareChris, Marcelina, and Max join Katie to discuss the historic UAW strike. ...
No one here is pretending that having fun online is really advancing a revolutionary agenda
I disagree here - I think cultural change is the harbinger of societal change. I for example called myself liberal, capitalist, and the thought of abolishing the police was unthinkable - until I was exposed to Beau of the Fifth Column and people on Reddit a bit like yourself but nicer (i.e. anarchists not Marxist types) that exposed me to new ideas.
I’d imagine if Beau called me an idiot and transphobe I probably would not have been convinced. I’m currently working to build community, this started online.
I know you disagree, that’s why you’re all worked up about on a communist site. You’re projecting that onto us.
people on Reddit a bit like yourself but nicer (i.e. anarchists not Marxist types)
I’ll overlook the petty sectarianism here, and just say that we are nice, just not toward people hectoring us about like we don’t already know. Some of us do, some of us don’t. Some of us see the point in strategic voting if you live in the handful of states (counties really) where you vote matters in a presidential election, and some of don’t care even for that arguement.
What we all agree on is that the kind of evangelism your on about is nonsense.
If it makes me a lib in your mind or the Hexbear hive mind because I care that people are harmed and am willing to vote in an attempt to reduce that harm, than I guess I’m a lib. I’ll go cry in the corner and make some Republican gun lube.
Weird definition of liberal but I’ll take it. My panties are not in a bunch because people call me a liberal, especially when it has to be redefined to apply.
I’m not defining or redefining anything. I’m saying VOTE evangelism is some lib nonsense, that’s really the extent of what I’m saying.
voting is fine if you think there’s a reason to engage in liberal democracy. Sometimes their are reasons to. There’s never a reason to VOOOOTE evangelize on a left space
There’s never a reason to VOOOOTE evangelize on a left space
Sure there is. Auth-left spaces are full of people with high levels of empathy that I view as mislead thinking that people like Xi actually care about minorities, LGBT, etc. People learn about atrocities and lies in U.S. history and that seems to make them think that enemies of the U.S. must be good, but that’s a fallacy. I hope that somebody reading my comments will start to question their allegiance to rich powerful men like Xi and Putin (and no, I have no allegiance to Biden, I just think he’s gonna fuck me over less than Trump).
Let’s say Dems and Repubs are identical in most ways (colonialism, etc). It’s a fact that fascists are more dangerous to vulnerable populations than garden variety conservatives (if you don’t get this you must be either privileged or just don’t care about the collateral damage caused attempting to get your way). Therefore it makes sense for a member of one or more of these vulnerable populations (which I am) to encourage using a provided mechanism (voting) that people fought for in an attempt at self-preservation as well as preservation of other vulnerable groups.
We’ve talked about that, this is not an actual thing that exists. It only exists on your political compass which is bullshit.
mislead thinking that people like Xi actually care about minorities, LGBT, etc.
We support AES states. We don’t have parasocial relationships with the individuals in charge. I don’t pretend to know what Xi “cares” about on a personal level. I support the CPC, and think Xi’s leadership has been a positive force. I’m not misled in this.
People learn about atrocities and lies in U.S. history and that seems to make them think that enemies of the U.S. must be good, but that’s a fallacy.
So which enemies of the US are bad and which are good?
We support AES here. We don’t support them just because they are enemies of the US. They are enemies precisely because they are AES. Some US enemies that aren’t AES like Iran or Russia we don’t support, although we have critical support for them in their conflicts with US hegemony.
None of these positions are based on assumptions of “goodness.”
I hope that somebody reading my comments will start to question their allegiance to rich powerful men like Xi and Putin
We don’t have allegiance to Xi as a person. We have support of the CPC. We support the direction of things have gone in under his leadership, but as comminists we recognize he is only one man among many doing the work of building socialism. We have alliegence to everyone building socialism in thevreal world. Your not going to find support for Great Man Theory here, as much as you imagine it.
No one here has alligence to Putin. We have some critical support for the Russian Federations in its conflict with the US as i already explained. That’s not allegiance to Putin no matter what you want to imagine are assume.
Let’s say Dems and Repubs are identical in most ways (colonialism, etc). It’s a fact that fascists are more dangerous to vulnerable populations than garden variety conservatives (if you don’t get this you must be either privileged or just don’t care about the collateral damage caused attempting to get your way). Therefore it makes sense for a member of one or more of these vulnerable populations (which I am) to encourage using a provided mechanism (voting) that people fought for in an attempt at self-preservation as well as preservation of other vulnerable groups.
Everyone here knows that! The USians here all know how US elections work! We don’t need anyone to tell us that.
Since we know how these elections work we also know that in presidential elections most of the populations votes don’t matter. There are a handful of swing states, and even then its a handful of counties that determine presidential elections. The vast majority of Congress are safe districts. Senators are largely locked in a similar way that the electoral map breaks down. Its all designed to promote minority rule.
This is the reality of elections in the US. People here have different views on how to engage with this system, based on an understanding of the reality of it. And many of us are people directly targeted by fascists, and they aren’t intetested in your vote evangelism either. There are times and arguements and circumstances where voting makes sense, but voooote evangelism is not that arguement, and presidential elections are usually not that circumstance.
No one here outright opposes voting in the right circumstances. That’s why I’m saying that your whole exercise here is pointless. We don’t oppose voting, we oppose voooooooote bullshit.
Votes are earned.
I disagree here - I think cultural change is the harbinger of societal change. I for example called myself liberal, capitalist, and the thought of abolishing the police was unthinkable - until I was exposed to Beau of the Fifth Column and people on Reddit a bit like yourself but nicer (i.e. anarchists not Marxist types) that exposed me to new ideas.
I’d imagine if Beau called me an idiot and transphobe I probably would not have been convinced. I’m currently working to build community, this started online.
I know you disagree, that’s why you’re all worked up about
on a communist site. You’re projecting that onto us.
I’ll overlook the petty sectarianism here, and just say that we are nice, just not toward people hectoring us about
like we don’t already know. Some of us do, some of us don’t. Some of us see the point in strategic voting if you live in the handful of states (counties really) where you vote matters in a presidential election, and some of don’t care even for that arguement.
What we all agree on is that the kind of
evangelism your on about is 
nonsense.
Bigger images plz I don’t get it lol.
If it makes me a lib in your mind or the Hexbear hive mind because I care that people are harmed and am willing to vote in an attempt to reduce that harm, than I guess I’m a lib. I’ll go cry in the corner and make some Republican gun lube.
This is actually not the part that makes you a lib. Hectoring people in a left space about VOTE is what we consider lib
Weird definition of liberal but I’ll take it. My panties are not in a bunch because people call me a liberal, especially when it has to be redefined to apply.
I’m not defining or redefining anything. I’m saying VOTE evangelism is some lib nonsense, that’s really the extent of what I’m saying.
voting is fine if you think there’s a reason to engage in liberal democracy. Sometimes their are reasons to. There’s never a reason to VOOOOTE evangelize on a left space
Sure there is. Auth-left spaces are full of people with high levels of empathy that I view as mislead thinking that people like Xi actually care about minorities, LGBT, etc. People learn about atrocities and lies in U.S. history and that seems to make them think that enemies of the U.S. must be good, but that’s a fallacy. I hope that somebody reading my comments will start to question their allegiance to rich powerful men like Xi and Putin (and no, I have no allegiance to Biden, I just think he’s gonna fuck me over less than Trump).
Let’s say Dems and Repubs are identical in most ways (colonialism, etc). It’s a fact that fascists are more dangerous to vulnerable populations than garden variety conservatives (if you don’t get this you must be either privileged or just don’t care about the collateral damage caused attempting to get your way). Therefore it makes sense for a member of one or more of these vulnerable populations (which I am) to encourage using a provided mechanism (voting) that people fought for in an attempt at self-preservation as well as preservation of other vulnerable groups.
We’ve talked about that, this is not an actual thing that exists. It only exists on your political compass which is bullshit.
We support AES states. We don’t have parasocial relationships with the individuals in charge. I don’t pretend to know what Xi “cares” about on a personal level. I support the CPC, and think Xi’s leadership has been a positive force. I’m not misled in this.
So which enemies of the US are bad and which are good?
We support AES here. We don’t support them just because they are enemies of the US. They are enemies precisely because they are AES. Some US enemies that aren’t AES like Iran or Russia we don’t support, although we have critical support for them in their conflicts with US hegemony.
None of these positions are based on assumptions of “goodness.”
We don’t have allegiance to Xi as a person. We have support of the CPC. We support the direction of things have gone in under his leadership, but as comminists we recognize he is only one man among many doing the work of building socialism. We have alliegence to everyone building socialism in thevreal world. Your not going to find support for Great Man Theory here, as much as you imagine it.
No one here has alligence to Putin. We have some critical support for the Russian Federations in its conflict with the US as i already explained. That’s not allegiance to Putin no matter what you want to imagine are assume.
Everyone here knows that! The USians here all know how US elections work! We don’t need anyone to tell us that.
Since we know how these elections work we also know that in presidential elections most of the populations votes don’t matter. There are a handful of swing states, and even then its a handful of counties that determine presidential elections. The vast majority of Congress are safe districts. Senators are largely locked in a similar way that the electoral map breaks down. Its all designed to promote minority rule.
This is the reality of elections in the US. People here have different views on how to engage with this system, based on an understanding of the reality of it. And many of us are people directly targeted by fascists, and they aren’t intetested in your vote evangelism either. There are times and arguements and circumstances where voting makes sense, but voooote evangelism is not that arguement, and presidential elections are usually not that circumstance.
No one here outright opposes voting in the right circumstances. That’s why I’m saying that your whole exercise here is pointless. We don’t oppose voting, we oppose voooooooote bullshit.