I like how we’ve gone from “false flag” and “misinformation” to “it was justified”. Fuck the Israeli government, but I can’t get on board with deliberately pixelating bystanders, no matter what side is doing it. There was no message here, no tactical goal was achieved, it’s just misery for misery’s sake.
I’m sorry if the desperate, terrified inhabitants of a open air prison don’t have a coordinated enough strategy for you. I’m sorry that in their misery they only have revenge in mind.
The terrified inhabitants are still in the Gaza Strip, and I fear for their lives in the face of an impending land invasion of the strip. Hamas fighters are an organized militia and I will judge them and their actions differently than I will unarmed civilians. Stop equating all Palestinians with Hamas - that is exactly what Israel wants.
I only did a quick google, but apparently support is at 58%. Thats technically “most”, but not enough of a majority to write off the people who don’t really.
And one thing that GEAS is definitly correct about, for all their inappropriate handwringing that they’ve done, is that Israel wants Hamas conflated with Palestine and doing so serves their cause. (Much like conflating Jews with Israel serves the antisemitic cause, and I’m pretty sure polling for support for Israel among the Jewish diapsora is higher than 58%)
Personally I’d just choose to not go to the dance party on stolen land in the apartheid state, and in particular I would avoid the dance party taking place mockingly close to the people being genocided in an open air prison.
I mean, as an American who knows our history, you’re basically asking me to will myself out of existence. I didn’t choose to be born here, and they didn’t choose to be born there. I can accept that having a rave is insensitive, but the whole goddamned world is on fire. The ice caps are melting, microplastics are in everything, governments suck, and I can’t really blame folks for wanting to do something besides watch the motherfucker burn.
Would you choose to go to a rave purposefully right outside the walls of a border detention camp? Do you have parking lot parties down at your local ICE facility? Throw a rager at the closest reservation?
And while the US led genocide is definitely not over, the people in Israel are so much more directly complicit with the furiously churning genocide of Palestine.
I can’t know that experience, but what I do know is that there are many, many, many more Palestinians that also seem to share my understanding that murdering people is wrong, or else the Israeli civilian population would have a much bigger mess on their hands.
“Actually I’m just assuming shit about a subject that I don’t have any deep meaningful knowledge of”
Thanks for the comment champ! We all appreciate that kind of spitballing about history and societal sentiments around here. In the future you could just shut the fuck up instead of trying to speak for Palestinians on the internet.
Not any worse than implying that every Gazan huddled in dark places praying for their lives under constant Israeli bombardment all support the murder of other people as payback
I don’t need deep, meaningful knowledge to know that spree shooting and raping bystanders is fucking wrong. A child knows that’s wrong. An adult is just better at lying to themselves about it.
And your morality wasn’t crafted while living your entire life in an outdoor prison while Israel targets civilians, your friends, and family every fucking day of your life. They don’t have to play by better rules than the enormously equipped genocidal state. Shit sucks, but Israel has very predictably brought this upon themselves and no one should flinch at all when it comes to supporting Palestine over this, or else you never really did. This is how liberation is won, this time you’re just seeing the reality of war through a cell phone.
Let me just go ahead and fail that purity test for you. It took me a long time to come to a conclusion about this subject and it wasn’t fully cemented until this conflict broke out. Millions of Palestinians refuse to spill blood. The Israeli state has encouraged funding HAMAS as part of their long term plan to prevent two-state solution viability. You can’t build liberation on the backs of dead bystanders any more than the Nazis or the US or the Jacobins did. “But it’s justified when we do it, you just don’t understand” is a bullshit rationale that’s older than dirt and twice as worthless; Jesus, how many times must the CIA have said that very thing to themselves over the years?
It took me a long time to come to a conclusion about this subject
…
I don’t need deep, meaningful knowledge
lol
lmao
for real though just stop what you’re doing here. People are fighting for liberation and you have the ability to shut the fuck up from your cozy imperial core internet connection. You live in the country that has materially supported more genocide than any other in existence. Feel the urge to inject “but murder is bad” into the liberation struggle? Yeah, that’s shut the fuck up time. You would condemn every liberation struggle in history with this shit.
You know, I always wonder about these type of comments. Are you someone who’s actually lived the kind of experience you’re speaking for, or are you comfortably sipping a coffee while you write out some performative outrage, smirk, and think “this comment will show them”?
You know as an American you can join anticolonialism efforts. You didn’t choose to be born in a settler colony but you can choose to resist it. You absolutely can and should involve yourself with anti-imperialism.
You shouldn’t fall into nihilism. Things may seem hopeless, but we’re not dead yet. Plenty of work to do.
They’re commenting on a leftist forum, I try to give everyone the benefit of the doubt that that indicates at least a desire to be involved in such things in the real world.
I have had some comments replying to me before, implying that what happened at the rave is what needs to and should happen to all colonists, because clearly I don’t understand what decolonisation means (even though I am someone whose been involved in décolonisation activism in the past and at no point was my forced removal from North America or murder part of the discussion).
Haven’t seen cries of misinformation or false flag at all. From the getgo the take has been yes it is brutal, but if anyone is to blame for Hamas’ actions, it is those who created those circumstances: Israel and the western regimes that have supported it since its modern inception.
Palestine has a right to self determination against colonial settlers. A theocratic and violent response is what you get when you treat an opposing religion and ethnicity like animals for decades.
Innocent bystanders don’t attend raves in sight of history’s largest concentration camp, I don’t know what bizarre pseudo-morality you’re working with but if you help glorify a modern-day Nazi ghetto you deserve whatever comes to you
Didn’t plan ahead for the inevitable request for receipts, unfortunately. It was on one of the posts about the girl being taken off on motorcycle, some people were suggesting it was staged or actually Israelis doing it.
You don’t think a tactical goal was acheived? I’ve gone out of my way not to talk about this because the whole thing literally makes me sick to my stomach, but this was absolutely a tactical victory for Hamas. No two ways about it, they got exactly what they wanted and I’m sure there’s more to come
I know that tone can easily get lost in text, so I’ll tell you that I’m genuinely curious. Would you be willing to explain what tactical goal was achieved specifically by attacking the rave?
Taking hostages, which are basically currency in negotiations. Also, the whole attack will likely upend the Israel-Saudi normalization process that undercut Palestinian leverage, it has made many Israelis doubt Netanyahu’s ability to keep them safe, will probably reduce the number of new immigrants to Israel and cause some to leave, and the fallout from Israel’s response will radicalize even more Palestinians leading them to support and join Hamas. It’s a risky gambit, but doing nothing was also very risky for Hamas since Israel has been aggressively consolidating its power over the last few years and moving toward annexation and the elimination of any viable path toward Palestinian self-determination
I like how we’ve gone from “false flag” and “misinformation” to “it was justified”. Fuck the Israeli government, but I can’t get on board with deliberately pixelating bystanders, no matter what side is doing it. There was no message here, no tactical goal was achieved, it’s just misery for misery’s sake.
I’m sorry if the desperate, terrified inhabitants of a open air prison don’t have a coordinated enough strategy for you. I’m sorry that in their misery they only have revenge in mind.
The terrified inhabitants are still in the Gaza Strip, and I fear for their lives in the face of an impending land invasion of the strip. Hamas fighters are an organized militia and I will judge them and their actions differently than I will unarmed civilians. Stop equating all Palestinians with Hamas - that is exactly what Israel wants.
most of Palestine supports the Hamas
I only did a quick google, but apparently support is at 58%. Thats technically “most”, but not enough of a majority to write off the people who don’t really.
And one thing that GEAS is definitly correct about, for all their inappropriate handwringing that they’ve done, is that Israel wants Hamas conflated with Palestine and doing so serves their cause. (Much like conflating Jews with Israel serves the antisemitic cause, and I’m pretty sure polling for support for Israel among the Jewish diapsora is higher than 58%)
Yeah, sorry. I get kneejerk about this sometimes
I never could have expressed it better than this.
Personally I’d just choose to not go to the dance party on stolen land in the apartheid state, and in particular I would avoid the dance party taking place mockingly close to the people being genocided in an open air prison.
I mean, as an American who knows our history, you’re basically asking me to will myself out of existence. I didn’t choose to be born here, and they didn’t choose to be born there. I can accept that having a rave is insensitive, but the whole goddamned world is on fire. The ice caps are melting, microplastics are in everything, governments suck, and I can’t really blame folks for wanting to do something besides watch the motherfucker burn.
Would you choose to go to a rave purposefully right outside the walls of a border detention camp? Do you have parking lot parties down at your local ICE facility? Throw a rager at the closest reservation?
And while the US led genocide is definitely not over, the people in Israel are so much more directly complicit with the furiously churning genocide of Palestine.
What you don’t have a rave with the boys outside Gitmo or Abu Ghraib?
No, but I also wouldn’t fucking murder people who went to that party either.
What if you were one of the inhabitants of the ghetto who had been treated like animals for decades?
Don’t answer. There is no way for you to possibly know the suffering they have endured, and what a human might do in that scenario.
I can’t know that experience, but what I do know is that there are many, many, many more Palestinians that also seem to share my understanding that murdering people is wrong, or else the Israeli civilian population would have a much bigger mess on their hands.
“Actually I’m just assuming shit about a subject that I don’t have any deep meaningful knowledge of”
Thanks for the comment champ! We all appreciate that kind of spitballing about history and societal sentiments around here. In the future you could just shut the fuck up instead of trying to speak for Palestinians on the internet.
Not any worse than implying that every Gazan huddled in dark places praying for their lives under constant Israeli bombardment all support the murder of other people as payback
I don’t need deep, meaningful knowledge to know that spree shooting and raping bystanders is fucking wrong. A child knows that’s wrong. An adult is just better at lying to themselves about it.
Well, I mean if they slightly disagree they will be put on like 1 million watch lists. You can’t even discern the climate.
And your morality wasn’t crafted while living your entire life in an outdoor prison while Israel targets civilians, your friends, and family every fucking day of your life. They don’t have to play by better rules than the enormously equipped genocidal state. Shit sucks, but Israel has very predictably brought this upon themselves and no one should flinch at all when it comes to supporting Palestine over this, or else you never really did. This is how liberation is won, this time you’re just seeing the reality of war through a cell phone.
Let me just go ahead and fail that purity test for you. It took me a long time to come to a conclusion about this subject and it wasn’t fully cemented until this conflict broke out. Millions of Palestinians refuse to spill blood. The Israeli state has encouraged funding HAMAS as part of their long term plan to prevent two-state solution viability. You can’t build liberation on the backs of dead bystanders any more than the Nazis or the US or the Jacobins did. “But it’s justified when we do it, you just don’t understand” is a bullshit rationale that’s older than dirt and twice as worthless; Jesus, how many times must the CIA have said that very thing to themselves over the years?
Comparing people fighting for liberation to the CIA is some of the most galaxy brained shit I’ve ever seen.
…
lol
lmao
for real though just stop what you’re doing here. People are fighting for liberation and you have the ability to shut the fuck up from your cozy imperial core internet connection. You live in the country that has materially supported more genocide than any other in existence. Feel the urge to inject “but murder is bad” into the liberation struggle? Yeah, that’s shut the fuck up time. You would condemn every liberation struggle in history with this shit.
You know, I always wonder about these type of comments. Are you someone who’s actually lived the kind of experience you’re speaking for, or are you comfortably sipping a coffee while you write out some performative outrage, smirk, and think “this comment will show them”?
And what would you recommend they do? Try to starve louder?
Even the ones who were off duty IDF?
You know as an American you can join anticolonialism efforts. You didn’t choose to be born in a settler colony but you can choose to resist it. You absolutely can and should involve yourself with anti-imperialism.
You shouldn’t fall into nihilism. Things may seem hopeless, but we’re not dead yet. Plenty of work to do.
They’re commenting on a leftist forum, I try to give everyone the benefit of the doubt that that indicates at least a desire to be involved in such things in the real world.
I have had some comments replying to me before, implying that what happened at the rave is what needs to and should happen to all colonists, because clearly I don’t understand what decolonisation means (even though I am someone whose been involved in décolonisation activism in the past and at no point was my forced removal from North America or murder part of the discussion).
Removed by mod
Haven’t seen cries of misinformation or false flag at all. From the getgo the take has been yes it is brutal, but if anyone is to blame for Hamas’ actions, it is those who created those circumstances: Israel and the western regimes that have supported it since its modern inception.
Palestine has a right to self determination against colonial settlers. A theocratic and violent response is what you get when you treat an opposing religion and ethnicity like animals for decades.
As such, we support them in their struggle.
Removed by mod
how the fuck haven’t you been banned yet
No, I thought it was justified to begin with, loser.
Innocent bystanders don’t attend raves in sight of history’s largest concentration camp, I don’t know what bizarre pseudo-morality you’re working with but if you help glorify a modern-day Nazi ghetto you deserve whatever comes to you
I was saying it was justified from the beginning, idk what ya’ll talking about
I don’t remember seeing anyone saying that. Could you link a handful of examples?
Is there any actual proof it happened?
I hadn’t seen anything on Hexbear or Lemmy but I did see it a few times on Twitter trying to find combat updates
Didn’t plan ahead for the inevitable request for receipts, unfortunately. It was on one of the posts about the girl being taken off on motorcycle, some people were suggesting it was staged or actually Israelis doing it.
You don’t think a tactical goal was acheived? I’ve gone out of my way not to talk about this because the whole thing literally makes me sick to my stomach, but this was absolutely a tactical victory for Hamas. No two ways about it, they got exactly what they wanted and I’m sure there’s more to come
I know that tone can easily get lost in text, so I’ll tell you that I’m genuinely curious. Would you be willing to explain what tactical goal was achieved specifically by attacking the rave?
Taking hostages, which are basically currency in negotiations. Also, the whole attack will likely upend the Israel-Saudi normalization process that undercut Palestinian leverage, it has made many Israelis doubt Netanyahu’s ability to keep them safe, will probably reduce the number of new immigrants to Israel and cause some to leave, and the fallout from Israel’s response will radicalize even more Palestinians leading them to support and join Hamas. It’s a risky gambit, but doing nothing was also very risky for Hamas since Israel has been aggressively consolidating its power over the last few years and moving toward annexation and the elimination of any viable path toward Palestinian self-determination
Alright, got it. Yeah, risky seems like an understatement. Thanks for clarifying!
maybe on lemm.ee but we’ve been consistent on this the whole time