Gun laws give control of guns to the government. The government is not made up of people better than us, arguably the government is comprised of the worst of us, specifically the least empathetic, most greedy, and most power hungry.
Guns are tools, tools don’t do things on their own. Of course fewer guns means fewer people killed by guns, the same way fewer saws mean fewer boards cut by saws. But if cutting boards is a goal, new methods will be found. If accidental board sawing is a problem, don’t ban saws, be more careful.
It’s the community’s job to keep guns from dangerous people (like people who would be cops), not the state’s. Giving up rights is never the answer to any problem.
If a gun is a tool, why is there no right to bear tools? Because guns are actively deadly and used to kill people. In the 1700s, that would have had a different societal context, as the colonies were tumultuous and had a rocky relationship not only with Britain but with each other. But in the 2020s, they’re just used to commit murder. You rarely ever hear about the so-called “good guy with a gun” and you hear a hell of a lot about entire classrooms of slain children. Rights are a man made invention and aren’t actually real. “Giving up rights is never the answer to any problem” is a sentence you made up and could easily be debated.
If a gun is a tool, why is there no right to bear tools
I’d say two reasons – one, because there are no organized successful efforts to ban tools like saws and hammers. And the other is that saws are not a fundamental means of personal protection.
But in the 2020s, they’re just used to commit murder.
Guns are used for protection of homes, for sport, for hunting for food, and some people just thing they’re really cool.
You rarely ever hear about the so-called “good guy with a gun” and you hear a hell of a lot about entire classrooms of slain children.
You hear what is profitable to show you. You’re not hearing about a great many smaller events involving guns.
“Giving up rights is never the answer to any problem” is a sentence you made up and could easily be debated.
Just taking your argument a bit further, if you’re ok with this, do you think a dictator is OK so long as they keep you safe? Why or why not?
Taking away guns does nothing for the anger people have when they want to kill another. They will just resort to other lethal tools.
What you hear about, comes from what you’re listening to.
Traditional news doesn’t cover many defensive uses because it doesn’t generate as many views as a mass shooting. “If it bleeds, it leads” has been the motto of news organizations for decades. Look to other spaces and you’ll hear stories of people defending their home, business, etc. Colion Noir on YouTube has done some really interesting interviews with people doing that in the last couple of weeks. The FBI stats had something like 3-5 million defensive gun uses a year in the US. When seconds matter, the police are minutes away
Ban guns and who is left with them? The government and criminals. Do you trust them for all eternity?
You rarely ever hear about the so-called “good guy with a gun” and you hear a hell of a lot about entire classrooms of slain children.
Media bias. If it bleeds it leads, if it’s scary it gets ratings, and tragedies involving children draw even more attention.
Hell let’s try this, without looking it up:
How many homicides do you think happen in a year in the US?
How many of those do you think happen with rifles (since those tend to be the target of “assault weapon” legislation)?
How many people do you think have been killed in public mass shootings (defined as a shooting with more than three casualties, that did not wholly take place in a single private residence, and was not secondary to some other crime - aka Columbine/Aurora/Sandy Hook style shootings, as opposed to something like gang violence or robberies gone wrong), between August 1966 and May 2021?
If a gun is a tool, why is there no right to bear tools?
Because no one has historically tried to de-tool the populace, so one hasn’t been needed. Assault the right to repair a bit harder and maybe we’ll get there.
Because, as a country that already has so many guns, it’s not so simple to just say, “fuck it, no more guns”. Just three days ago my neighbor lost his marbles and decided to shoot up his apartment at 2am. I share a wall with this psycho.
The cops didn’t even bother to come out even though I had video proof of the incident.
I own a weapon for this exact reason. I have a family to protect and if I can’t even depend on the resources that are supposed to be there to protect us from this, then I will continue to own a weapon.
I lived in Japan for almost a decade, guns are almost non-existent there. It was awesome.
I wish it could be like that here in the US but there would need to be a radical shift in public perception of the police and each other for that to ever happen.
Edit: corrected spelling from weapoon to weapon lol.
You just said it how awesome it is to live in a country without guns… something has to be done. Stricter gun control is a step in the right way. Like you’ve said, it will need a long time to correct that. Years, even decades. But if nothing is changed, it will stay like that forever.
I absolutely agree. Mental evaluations or other processes or restrictions would be welcomed. I by no means feel that we should just leave things exactly as they are. However too many people just scream about banning weapons with no forethought into the subject.
Because guns are one of if not the most effective way to protect oneself when other measures have already failed. I want to be free, have freedom, that means the freedom to posses an effective way to protect myself.
An elevated murder rate isn’t a problem of guns, it’s a societal ill. If you’re sick and vomiting, the solution isn’t to plug your mouth.
Logical fallacy. Me vomiting doesnt kill classrooms full of children. Also, how does owning a gun protect you? The studies have been done. People who own guns are far more likely to kill themselves and their family than they are to kill an attacker.
Owning a gun usually never actually protects the owner. In fact most of the time when a gun owner is attacked or fired on, it happens without any pre-emptive warning or siren to alert them about what’s about to happen.
And as people who have survived mass shootings will tell you, the violence was over with before they even knew what was going on. You are not going to be a “western” hero in this world, nor some kind of vigilante. Guns are bad, they always will be bad and only bad people have any desire to own them.
Logical fallacy. Me vomiting doesnt kill classrooms full of children.
I assumed you were familiar with concepts of analogies and models, my mistake.
Also, how does owning a gun protect you?
Is your imagination really that poor? I’m a trans woman so I want to protect myself from potential crazy neighbors that think I caused all their problems. I lived alone, I like to not be completely helpless against an invader.
The studies have been done. People who own guns are far more likely to kill themselves and their family than they are to kill an attacker.
Other people’s carelessness should not be a reason to take my rights to protect myself.
You kill someone with that gun, it won’t matter if your “neighbors are crazy” or not. You’re the one who will go to jail for murder, no matter the reason. Courts do not grant leniency simply because you claim you were protecting yourself.
Murder anyone, ANYONE AT ALL - and you have not only condemned yourself but your soul to absolute corruption. The reason why you did it is utterly unimportant.
I don’t know where you people get this absurd idea that “I won’t go to jail if I can show I acted in self-defense.” Since when! Don’t you even listen to the news? People who keep trying to invoke that ridiculous “stand your ground” defense keep losing in court. Every one of them has gone to jail for committing murder.
You are deluding yourself in a very dangerous way. And if you aren’t even intelligent or worthwhile enough of a person to see how murder will destroy you no matter what - then you aren’t someone I have any interest in continuing to talk to.
Protect yourself from what. What measures have failed you, and what kind of war zone are you constantly in that you have to have a weapon? I’m almost 70 and I’ve never felt any need to have a gun to protect myself, and I live in the SAME world you do.
If you bothered to read or listen to the news you’d know that the elevated murder rate in this country is 100 percent due to the proliferation of guns in the hands of young men, thugs who think that there’s something glamorous about toting a gun around and end up killing innocent people and kids as a result.
If you’re going to spout ignorance, to me that’s even more of a reason you should never be allowed anywhere near a gun.
and what kind of war zone are you constantly in that you have to have a weapon?
I’m a trans woman and live in the U.S., also gay, openly atheist, and anarchist. I’m surrounded by well armed people that hate me.
If you bothered to read or listen to the news you’d know that the elevated murder rate in this country is 100 percent due to the proliferation of guns in the hands of young men, thugs who think that there’s something glamorous about toting a gun around and end up killing innocent people and kids as a result.
Your use of “thugs” outs your rankism. This is also not true, but you think it is because you think the news is telling you truths. The reality is that it’s complex and likely more to do with social ills than tool quantity.
If you’re going to spout ignorance, to me that’s even more of a reason you should never be allowed anywhere near a gun.
Exactly! It’s actually possible to have a mentally healthy country where people don’t need or even want guns. I would even say that ONLY a country where people don’t want to have guns could ever be called a healthy country.
It’s the community’s job to keep guns from dangerous people (like people who would be cops), not the state’s. Giving up rights is never the answer to any problem.
Wait hold on can you go more in depth about what you mean by this? It’s sounding like if I think someone is dangerous I should go and take their guns.
I said “It’s the community’s job to keep guns from dangerous people”, I don’t actually think it’s possible to completely keep guns from dangerous people and who is considered dangerous is very subjective.
What I was trying to say is that any state level efforts are going to cause more problems than they solve. So maybe the way to prevent little Johnny from shooting up his school isn’t strict laws that disarm a population, but rather identifying and fixing the community and family issues that brought Johnny to a place where he thought shooting up his school was the best course of action.
You know one thing I think would have a huge effect on this? Making lying and stoking fear for profit and calling yourself “news” illegal. Fox News damaging families and stoking flames is a much bigger problem then gun quantity.
It’s true tools don’t do things on their own. Cars don’t run over people on their own, baseball bats don’t bash people’s heads in on their own. But the big difference between those tools and a gun are, those tools are not DESIGNED to be lethal or used as weapons against other humans.
And I’d point out, people have survived stabbings and car accidents - most never survive being shot by a gun.
People misuse inanimate objects, and sometimes death results. People weaponize knives, guns, bats, folding chairs etc etc - they drive under the influence, they don’t buckle up, they text on their phones and thus thousands of people get killed by careless drivers every year.
And you want people like that - temperamental uncaring and who misuse NON-lethal items to kill people, to have GUNS??? Can you not see how ridiculous and asking for trouble such a scenario is going to be? It’s everyone’s job to keep guns out of human’s hands - cops being the exception. And we can only do that with good gun control laws, which are (as I’ve illustrated above) both vital and necessary to our survival as a species.
And you want people like that - temperamental uncaring and who misuse NON-lethal items to kill people, to have GUNS???
I don’t want anyone to have guns per se, I just think attempts to restrict them, especially in the U.S. just means only the real bad people will have them. I’m looking for realistic solutions to actual problems, not reactions to tragic events.
Well that’s the issue. We need to be going after everyone who owns a gun and going a thorough evaluation of their mental health and past history. We need to make it a felony offense to own a gun if you have any sort of criminal history - I agree we need to get guns out of the hands of all bad people for good.
No it isn’t sarcasm at all, I’m 100 percent serious. And I’ve even had many neighbors express my same point of view so I know I’m not alone nor am I from Mars nor am I delusional. My opinions and self worth don’t depend on anyone else’s retorts.
Gun laws give control of guns to the government. The government is not made up of people better than us, arguably the government is comprised of the worst of us, specifically the least empathetic, most greedy, and most power hungry.
Guns are tools, tools don’t do things on their own. Of course fewer guns means fewer people killed by guns, the same way fewer saws mean fewer boards cut by saws. But if cutting boards is a goal, new methods will be found. If accidental board sawing is a problem, don’t ban saws, be more careful.
It’s the community’s job to keep guns from dangerous people (like people who would be cops), not the state’s. Giving up rights is never the answer to any problem.
If a gun is a tool, why is there no right to bear tools? Because guns are actively deadly and used to kill people. In the 1700s, that would have had a different societal context, as the colonies were tumultuous and had a rocky relationship not only with Britain but with each other. But in the 2020s, they’re just used to commit murder. You rarely ever hear about the so-called “good guy with a gun” and you hear a hell of a lot about entire classrooms of slain children. Rights are a man made invention and aren’t actually real. “Giving up rights is never the answer to any problem” is a sentence you made up and could easily be debated.
When the government gives up its guns, I’ll give up mine. Not before.
That’s sad, but as long as you don’t wave the gun around and threaten people or use it to “settle” arguments that’s your right.
I’d say two reasons – one, because there are no organized successful efforts to ban tools like saws and hammers. And the other is that saws are not a fundamental means of personal protection.
Guns are used for protection of homes, for sport, for hunting for food, and some people just thing they’re really cool.
You hear what is profitable to show you. You’re not hearing about a great many smaller events involving guns.
Just taking your argument a bit further, if you’re ok with this, do you think a dictator is OK so long as they keep you safe? Why or why not?
Taking away guns does nothing for the anger people have when they want to kill another. They will just resort to other lethal tools.
What you hear about, comes from what you’re listening to. Traditional news doesn’t cover many defensive uses because it doesn’t generate as many views as a mass shooting. “If it bleeds, it leads” has been the motto of news organizations for decades. Look to other spaces and you’ll hear stories of people defending their home, business, etc. Colion Noir on YouTube has done some really interesting interviews with people doing that in the last couple of weeks. The FBI stats had something like 3-5 million defensive gun uses a year in the US. When seconds matter, the police are minutes away
Ban guns and who is left with them? The government and criminals. Do you trust them for all eternity?
Media bias. If it bleeds it leads, if it’s scary it gets ratings, and tragedies involving children draw even more attention.
Hell let’s try this, without looking it up: How many homicides do you think happen in a year in the US? How many of those do you think happen with rifles (since those tend to be the target of “assault weapon” legislation)?
How many people do you think have been killed in public mass shootings (defined as a shooting with more than three casualties, that did not wholly take place in a single private residence, and was not secondary to some other crime - aka Columbine/Aurora/Sandy Hook style shootings, as opposed to something like gang violence or robberies gone wrong), between August 1966 and May 2021?
Because no one has historically tried to de-tool the populace, so one hasn’t been needed. Assault the right to repair a bit harder and maybe we’ll get there.
Why is it so important to have the rights to have guns? Have you seen any country got destroyed because the people aren’t allowed to have guns?
Because, as a country that already has so many guns, it’s not so simple to just say, “fuck it, no more guns”. Just three days ago my neighbor lost his marbles and decided to shoot up his apartment at 2am. I share a wall with this psycho.
The cops didn’t even bother to come out even though I had video proof of the incident.
I own a weapon for this exact reason. I have a family to protect and if I can’t even depend on the resources that are supposed to be there to protect us from this, then I will continue to own a weapon.
I lived in Japan for almost a decade, guns are almost non-existent there. It was awesome.
I wish it could be like that here in the US but there would need to be a radical shift in public perception of the police and each other for that to ever happen.
Edit: corrected spelling from weapoon to weapon lol.
You just said it how awesome it is to live in a country without guns… something has to be done. Stricter gun control is a step in the right way. Like you’ve said, it will need a long time to correct that. Years, even decades. But if nothing is changed, it will stay like that forever.
I absolutely agree. Mental evaluations or other processes or restrictions would be welcomed. I by no means feel that we should just leave things exactly as they are. However too many people just scream about banning weapons with no forethought into the subject.
Because guns are one of if not the most effective way to protect oneself when other measures have already failed. I want to be free, have freedom, that means the freedom to posses an effective way to protect myself.
An elevated murder rate isn’t a problem of guns, it’s a societal ill. If you’re sick and vomiting, the solution isn’t to plug your mouth.
Logical fallacy. Me vomiting doesnt kill classrooms full of children. Also, how does owning a gun protect you? The studies have been done. People who own guns are far more likely to kill themselves and their family than they are to kill an attacker.
Owning a gun usually never actually protects the owner. In fact most of the time when a gun owner is attacked or fired on, it happens without any pre-emptive warning or siren to alert them about what’s about to happen.
And as people who have survived mass shootings will tell you, the violence was over with before they even knew what was going on. You are not going to be a “western” hero in this world, nor some kind of vigilante. Guns are bad, they always will be bad and only bad people have any desire to own them.
I assumed you were familiar with concepts of analogies and models, my mistake.
Also, how does owning a gun protect you?
Is your imagination really that poor? I’m a trans woman so I want to protect myself from potential crazy neighbors that think I caused all their problems. I lived alone, I like to not be completely helpless against an invader.
Other people’s carelessness should not be a reason to take my rights to protect myself.
Cars kill many people too should we ban those?
You kill someone with that gun, it won’t matter if your “neighbors are crazy” or not. You’re the one who will go to jail for murder, no matter the reason. Courts do not grant leniency simply because you claim you were protecting yourself.
Murder anyone, ANYONE AT ALL - and you have not only condemned yourself but your soul to absolute corruption. The reason why you did it is utterly unimportant.
I’d rather be in jail that raped and murdered
I won’t necessarily go to jail for murder if it can be shown I acted in self-defense, this is highly location and situation dependent
If I have a soul, I don’t want anything to do with any so-called god that condemns my soul for protecting myself.
I don’t know where you people get this absurd idea that “I won’t go to jail if I can show I acted in self-defense.” Since when! Don’t you even listen to the news? People who keep trying to invoke that ridiculous “stand your ground” defense keep losing in court. Every one of them has gone to jail for committing murder.
You are deluding yourself in a very dangerous way. And if you aren’t even intelligent or worthwhile enough of a person to see how murder will destroy you no matter what - then you aren’t someone I have any interest in continuing to talk to.
Don’t you even listen to the news?
You mean the shows that try to scare us for profit with stories based on real events?
Protect yourself from what. What measures have failed you, and what kind of war zone are you constantly in that you have to have a weapon? I’m almost 70 and I’ve never felt any need to have a gun to protect myself, and I live in the SAME world you do.
If you bothered to read or listen to the news you’d know that the elevated murder rate in this country is 100 percent due to the proliferation of guns in the hands of young men, thugs who think that there’s something glamorous about toting a gun around and end up killing innocent people and kids as a result.
If you’re going to spout ignorance, to me that’s even more of a reason you should never be allowed anywhere near a gun.
I’m a trans woman and live in the U.S., also gay, openly atheist, and anarchist. I’m surrounded by well armed people that hate me.
Your use of “thugs” outs your rankism. This is also not true, but you think it is because you think the news is telling you truths. The reality is that it’s complex and likely more to do with social ills than tool quantity.
lol
Exactly! It’s actually possible to have a mentally healthy country where people don’t need or even want guns. I would even say that ONLY a country where people don’t want to have guns could ever be called a healthy country.
Wait hold on can you go more in depth about what you mean by this? It’s sounding like if I think someone is dangerous I should go and take their guns.
No, and I probably used the wrong wording.
I said “It’s the community’s job to keep guns from dangerous people”, I don’t actually think it’s possible to completely keep guns from dangerous people and who is considered dangerous is very subjective.
What I was trying to say is that any state level efforts are going to cause more problems than they solve. So maybe the way to prevent little Johnny from shooting up his school isn’t strict laws that disarm a population, but rather identifying and fixing the community and family issues that brought Johnny to a place where he thought shooting up his school was the best course of action.
You know one thing I think would have a huge effect on this? Making lying and stoking fear for profit and calling yourself “news” illegal. Fox News damaging families and stoking flames is a much bigger problem then gun quantity.
It’s true tools don’t do things on their own. Cars don’t run over people on their own, baseball bats don’t bash people’s heads in on their own. But the big difference between those tools and a gun are, those tools are not DESIGNED to be lethal or used as weapons against other humans.
And I’d point out, people have survived stabbings and car accidents - most never survive being shot by a gun.
People misuse inanimate objects, and sometimes death results. People weaponize knives, guns, bats, folding chairs etc etc - they drive under the influence, they don’t buckle up, they text on their phones and thus thousands of people get killed by careless drivers every year.
And you want people like that - temperamental uncaring and who misuse NON-lethal items to kill people, to have GUNS??? Can you not see how ridiculous and asking for trouble such a scenario is going to be? It’s everyone’s job to keep guns out of human’s hands - cops being the exception. And we can only do that with good gun control laws, which are (as I’ve illustrated above) both vital and necessary to our survival as a species.
I don’t want anyone to have guns per se, I just think attempts to restrict them, especially in the U.S. just means only the real bad people will have them. I’m looking for realistic solutions to actual problems, not reactions to tragic events.
Well that’s the issue. We need to be going after everyone who owns a gun and going a thorough evaluation of their mental health and past history. We need to make it a felony offense to own a gun if you have any sort of criminal history - I agree we need to get guns out of the hands of all bad people for good.
This sounds like sarcasm based on a misunderstanding of my comment, if not you misunderstood significantly.
No it isn’t sarcasm at all, I’m 100 percent serious. And I’ve even had many neighbors express my same point of view so I know I’m not alone nor am I from Mars nor am I delusional. My opinions and self worth don’t depend on anyone else’s retorts.
Why is the #1 cause of death for children in the US firearms then? Countries with stricter gun control don’t have these issues.