If we have any duty at all it to fight against all sort of injustice. Funding the mafia and orchestrating terrorist attacks to scare off people in order to stop “communism” to me sound just as scummy as your idea of communism you claim we have a duty to stop.
Anyway I encourage you to learn history and learn about communism, read Marx books. You are not supposed to like it or agree with it, just read it to actually understand what it is about
The nazis were literally stopped by stalin and his troups. Could you explain how communism is so bad that orchestrating a terrorist attack against civilians and murder childrens to blame them is justified?
Nato and usa tried to stop “communism” with the help of former nazis.
Because I’m not paranoid about the country that’s been providing me with support and targeting data flying a plane off the border that can look into Crimea?
So, again, from your perspective, why should Ukraine be scared?
The same “country” is providing help to other dictatorshisp around the world worst than russia like saudi arabia, israel, turkey, egypt and many others. If we are talking about usa the country has a long history of meddling with other nations and spy on them
US collaborates with dictatorship around the world like saudi arabia, egypt, turkey and many others. Some of that are in direct partnership with russia. China who is also a commercial partner of usa sells weapons to russia.
@cloud@flying_monkies yes, we do, but looking back through centuries of history, you will find that EVERY country with any kind of power has always done so. Turkey (Ottoman), Rome (RC church and Roman Empire), Eqypt, Athens, Spain, France, Germany, Russia, England, Nordic, USA, Aztecs, Chinese, Korean, Japanese, etc. This is NOT NEW. Back up and get perspective. It will help with the sand in your shorts.
They provide intel for who? To me it just looks like they are playing their own games and helping ukraine because it benefits them in fighting a proxy war with russia and boost their own economy. Why wouldn’t i be concerned about a group that has a long history of meddling with other countries and that runs all sort of surveillance programs?
To me it just looks like they are […] and helping ukraine
Yes, yes exactly.
Why wouldn’t i be concerned about a group that has a long history of meddling with other countries and that runs all sort of surveillance programs?
Alright, that’s a fraction of a point there. Yes, technically Ukraine might be wary of these activities, and some individuals most certainly are. Reasons exist, as you point out.
But you cannot ignore the context in which that happens. Ukraine is being invaded. Cities are occupied, children get stolen, missiles smash into civilian buildings. In a situation like this, a 3rd party possibly spying on you is pretty low on your list of priorities. You very much would care more about the invader’s planes in the sky, not the supporter’s planes in the sky, as if your life depends on it, because it does.
In order to care about your privacy, you first and foremost need to stay alive, and be free. Even more so since that same 3rd party provides the most help to fend of the attacks, which are the actual, very urgent, problem.
It’s like you are drowning and worry the rescue diver might not share your political beliefs. Yes, in a different situation that might be a reasonable concern, you maybe don’t want to get so close to this person. But if your life depends on it, priorities shift a bit.
If your concern is cities being occupied, human trafficking and civilian casualties you should be concerned a lot if the guys who have been doing this for a century keep stalking you. You cannot ignore the context in which israel bombs palestinians, turkey bombs kurds, saudi arabia and egypt make people disappear and the west literally endorse it. If you are fighting for justice and freedom these who don’t endorse it are not your friend and will never be.
You are aware Ukraine asks for help, and more help? It’s weird how you spin this as stalking.
In which way would Ukraine be better off if they refused outside help? They accept more attacks getting through, more people being killed and the chances for victory diminishing, but they gain the moral high ground, some kind of purity, or what exactly is the deal?
Are you somehow suggesting the west providing the help which was requested is worse than Russia invading by force? This is so weird.
Apple makes iphones in china, china sells weapons to russia. Companies in USA are funding China who arms russia, weird isn’t it?
Not so weird to me personally once you understand that they do it for money and that they don’t or ever gave a fuck about people dying in useless wars.
Ok wow, what a groundbreaking insight. Yes, that’s pretty much common knowledge. They don’t do it out of the good of their heart, but because it suits their own motives. So what?
You suggest to refuse to be rescued by a rescue diver because it’s their job, and they do it for money? Again, what’s the alternative? More bombs destroying your cities, and killing your citizens.
Ah no, we should not look at the invasion and the actual war going on, but rather be afraid of allied spy planes helping out. Big brain time.
Why?
Why wouldn’t you?
Because I’m not drinking whatever kool-aid you are. Jesus your post history is pathetic.
If you think my history is pathetic you should have a look at nato and usa history
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Gladio
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Propaganda_Due
Ukraine isn’t a communism and doesn’t want to be communist.
Both your cites show that nato tried to stop communism.
Communism is bad. We have a duty to stop communism.
If we have any duty at all it to fight against all sort of injustice. Funding the mafia and orchestrating terrorist attacks to scare off people in order to stop “communism” to me sound just as scummy as your idea of communism you claim we have a duty to stop.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bologna_massacre
Anyway I encourage you to learn history and learn about communism, read Marx books. You are not supposed to like it or agree with it, just read it to actually understand what it is about
There is no injustice in stopping communism. It’s like stopping Nazis. It has to be done to protect society.
The nazis were literally stopped by stalin and his troups. Could you explain how communism is so bad that orchestrating a terrorist attack against civilians and murder childrens to blame them is justified?
Nato and usa tried to stop “communism” with the help of former nazis.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Licio_Gelli
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Junio_Valerio_Borghese
Of course we used the Nazis. When you what to fight a Nazi, you use a Nazi. Communism and Fascism are much more similar than different.
Both killed millions of people.
It is why we have done so much to stop “communism”. It’s why are are arming Ukraine to stop their fascist tendencies.
Why do you think Ukraine is fighting the Russians so hard? They know what is like to be under the finger of "communism’.
Because I’m not paranoid about the country that’s been providing me with support and targeting data flying a plane off the border that can look into Crimea?
So, again, from your perspective, why should Ukraine be scared?
The same “country” is providing help to other dictatorshisp around the world worst than russia like saudi arabia, israel, turkey, egypt and many others. If we are talking about usa the country has a long history of meddling with other nations and spy on them
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2010s_global_surveillance_disclosures
You still haven’t actually made a point. Why would Ukraine be worried about US surveillance of its own soil?
US collaborates with dictatorship around the world like saudi arabia, egypt, turkey and many others. Some of that are in direct partnership with russia. China who is also a commercial partner of usa sells weapons to russia.
@cloud @flying_monkies yes, we do, but looking back through centuries of history, you will find that EVERY country with any kind of power has always done so. Turkey (Ottoman), Rome (RC church and Roman Empire), Eqypt, Athens, Spain, France, Germany, Russia, England, Nordic, USA, Aztecs, Chinese, Korean, Japanese, etc. This is NOT NEW. Back up and get perspective. It will help with the sand in your shorts.
So if the Ottoman, the Roman empire or the Aztects were to send spies near your borders every second you wouldn’t be concerned about it?
They provide intel partially gathered using these jets, among many other things. It’s vital support against the Russian threat.
The question stands, why would you be scared?
They provide intel for who? To me it just looks like they are playing their own games and helping ukraine because it benefits them in fighting a proxy war with russia and boost their own economy. Why wouldn’t i be concerned about a group that has a long history of meddling with other countries and that runs all sort of surveillance programs?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2010s_global_surveillance_disclosures
So, you are a Russian troll. What I wonder is: are you paid, or dumb as a doorstop?
Maybe CCP. Also, maybe an LLM.
What i wonder is what you think about global surveillance programs
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_surveillance
To Ukraine, obviously.
Yes, yes exactly.
Alright, that’s a fraction of a point there. Yes, technically Ukraine might be wary of these activities, and some individuals most certainly are. Reasons exist, as you point out.
But you cannot ignore the context in which that happens. Ukraine is being invaded. Cities are occupied, children get stolen, missiles smash into civilian buildings. In a situation like this, a 3rd party possibly spying on you is pretty low on your list of priorities. You very much would care more about the invader’s planes in the sky, not the supporter’s planes in the sky, as if your life depends on it, because it does.
In order to care about your privacy, you first and foremost need to stay alive, and be free. Even more so since that same 3rd party provides the most help to fend of the attacks, which are the actual, very urgent, problem.
It’s like you are drowning and worry the rescue diver might not share your political beliefs. Yes, in a different situation that might be a reasonable concern, you maybe don’t want to get so close to this person. But if your life depends on it, priorities shift a bit.
If your concern is cities being occupied, human trafficking and civilian casualties you should be concerned a lot if the guys who have been doing this for a century keep stalking you. You cannot ignore the context in which israel bombs palestinians, turkey bombs kurds, saudi arabia and egypt make people disappear and the west literally endorse it. If you are fighting for justice and freedom these who don’t endorse it are not your friend and will never be.
You are aware Ukraine asks for help, and more help? It’s weird how you spin this as stalking.
In which way would Ukraine be better off if they refused outside help? They accept more attacks getting through, more people being killed and the chances for victory diminishing, but they gain the moral high ground, some kind of purity, or what exactly is the deal?
Are you somehow suggesting the west providing the help which was requested is worse than Russia invading by force? This is so weird.
Apple makes iphones in china, china sells weapons to russia. Companies in USA are funding China who arms russia, weird isn’t it?
Not so weird to me personally once you understand that they do it for money and that they don’t or ever gave a fuck about people dying in useless wars.
Ok wow, what a groundbreaking insight. Yes, that’s pretty much common knowledge. They don’t do it out of the good of their heart, but because it suits their own motives. So what?
You suggest to refuse to be rescued by a rescue diver because it’s their job, and they do it for money? Again, what’s the alternative? More bombs destroying your cities, and killing your citizens.
Ah no, we should not look at the invasion and the actual war going on, but rather be afraid of allied spy planes helping out. Big brain time.
Following your replies is like watching a turtle hump a football. Just turn away, no one is having a good time.