• KarlBarqs [he/him, they/them]@hexbear.net
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      IIRC it gets deployed against every ontologically evil designated enemy. I know it was deployed against Iraqis during the first Gulf War, with Hillary Clinton claiming Saddam was issuing his troops with Viagra specifically so they could [redacted] more. This is me misremembering, see replies.

      • I know it was deployed against Iraqis during the first Gulf War, with Hillary Clinton claiming Saddam was issuing his troops with Viagra specifically so they could [redacted] more.

        I don’t doubt r**e was a claim made against Iraqis too, but it’s the absurd claim about soldiers taking babies from incubators that most sticks out in my memory when it comes to Iraq and the first Gulf War. However, Hilary Clinton talking about soldiers being given viagra was definitely about Gaddafi. Keep in mind who was in power when those respective conflicts were happening.

      • BelieveRevolt [he/him]@hexbear.net
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        Hillary Clinton claiming Saddam was issuing his troops with Viagra specifically so they could [redacted] more

        Wasn’t that Gaddafi? The timeline doesn’t match, since Viagra wasn’t even on the market until the late 90s (hard to forget the time hack Viagra jokes were suddenly everywhere). Also, why would Hillary have said anything? H.W. Bush was president then.

    • LeylaLove [she/her, love/loves]@hexbear.net
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      Could also argue that Japan codified it during WW2 in the occupation of China and Korea. But rape as a weapon is a conservative tool. It’s why conservatives oppose abortion so much.

  • GenderIsOpSec [she/her]@hexbear.net
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    the red army was the ONLY army in WW2 that punished soldiers who did this. Usually by a bullet to the head by the nearest political officer.

    i think the amerikkkans hanged some black soldiers, but that might’ve been during WW1 and they were basically just lynchings

    https://journals.openedition.org/rccsar/476 this is an interesting article about the way nato basically spun all the SA the red army did into the standard anti-communist points of: “hordes of asiatics doing horrible crimes constantly”

    in the end though, show me an army that doesnt r#pe and i’ll show you the unit manual for Starcraft 2, sadly

    • Dolores [love/loves]@hexbear.net
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      ONLY army in WW2 that punished soldiers who did this

      we can avoid making an obviously false statement just to emphasize that the soviet military had policies against it.

  • Dolores [love/loves]@hexbear.net
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    Red Army did this no more than the Western allies did correct?

    absolute or per capita? there’s no honest comparative assessments to my knowledge, and lingering perceptions of soviet violence on civilians is permanently tainted by late-war nazi propaganda.

    but talking absolutely, if the american GI and soviet soldier had an identical propensity for abuse, more would’ve been done on the eastern front, with so many more soviet soldiers deployed on a wider front occupying more territory. and i’m not sure we should think the occurrence of war crimes was identical, the motives of reprisal & revenge didn’t exist as strongly for people from new england than soldiers that might’ve been from regions that suffered massacres and sexual violence for years under axis occupation. it’s ugly to think about but i really wouldn’t be surprised if soviet soldiers were crime-ing at a bit higher rate for that reason. i read an account that directly tied an incidence of violence (that was punished with execution) with a leave to their liberated home village & hearing about the atrocities that occurred there.

  • I want to piggy-back off this, since I got in a wiki-hole last night that found me reading about the Doctor’s Plot. Along with Jewish artists being killed, post war Stalin, wiki would have me think, was a truly virulent anti-semite.

    Anyone have more info about this that isn’t tainted by anti-communist wiki-editors? What actually happened any why? I’m not here to have Stalin’s saintly image upheld and the only thing he did wrong was stop at Berlin, but I’m hoping to have a better understanding of this period.

    Maybe more importantly, I understand that when people, myself included, defend the USSR, we’re not defending it wholesale and uncritically, though against western lies it can seem so, but try to come from a place of understanding the conditions that brought about the decisions that were made, and that in our own post-revolution experience, we wouldn’t simply do exactly as the Soviets did, because our own conditions will be drastically different.

    • autismdragon [he/him, they/them]@hexbear.netOP
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      My friend who brought me to the ML side of things (i still technically call myself a Luxembourgist but whatever, I’m effectively an ML at this point) told me that the thing with the Doctor’s plot is that it was genuinly kind of a legitimate bad on Stalin’s part, but it wasn’t motivated by genuine antisemitism, just old man paranoia. But idk thats a sourceless claim from a third party I bet someone else will come along with something better.

    • Flinch@lemmy.ml
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      From https://www.marxists.org/reference/archive/stalin/works/1931/01/12.htm :

      Anti-Semitism

      January 12, 1931

      Reply to an Inquiry of the Jewish News Agency in the United States

      In answer to your inquiry :

      National and racial chauvinism is a vestige of the misanthropic customs characteristic of the period of cannibalism. Anti-semitism, as an extreme form of racial chauvinism, is the most dangerous vestige of cannibalism.

      Anti-semitism is of advantage to the exploiters as a lightning conductor that deflects the blows aimed by the working people at capitalism. Anti-semitism is dangerous for the working people as being a false path that leads them off the right road and lands them in the jungle. Hence Communists, as consistent internationalists, cannot but be irreconcilable, sworn enemies of anti-semitism.

      In the U.S.S.R. anti-semitism is punishable with the utmost severity of the law as a phenomenon deeply hostile to the Soviet system. Under U.S.S.R. law active anti-semites are liable to the death penalty.

      J. Stalin January 12, 1931

      First published in the newspaper Pravda, No. 329, November 30, 1936

  • equinox [he/him, any]@hexbear.net
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    Is there anywhere I can read more about the Wikipedia thing? Preferably more recently since the other article I can remember from Reuters is from 2007 lmao

    • autismdragon [he/him, they/them]@hexbear.netOP
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      Honestly, its possible thats the article I saw? So it might be old information. I’ll keep that in mind for next time especially since yeah, I dont have the article handy and havent been able to find it when I went looking.

      • equinox [he/him, any]@hexbear.net
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        Here’s the link to the 2007 for future reference. Most of the results that show up on Google are from Wikipedia itself (like this one) which comes with its own problems.

        The biggest point to note, however, is that Wikipedia relies on third-party sources to back up their claims, and being a primarily english-speaking, west-hosted service, a lot of these sources will be sometimes biased and sometimes from authors who straight up make shit up. I found this Reddit post on r/communism from ~2yrs ago of a user who scrutinized the sources on its page for Another View of Stalin by Ludo Martens and found many anti-communist authors present.

          • equinox [he/him, any]@hexbear.net
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            “My mother grew up in the Soviet Union … So I’m very conscious of what, what it can mean to make knowledge free, to make information free”

            I want that to mean free information helps propel humanity forward but I feel like, with this being hosted on CBS, its meant to imply it can help bring these countries down and under capitalist control

        • autismdragon [he/him, they/them]@hexbear.netOP
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          OK that reuters article is definitly not what I saw. The one I saw was a critical article about a single guy who was not an employed fed but an avowed and commited anticommunist who had like 1/3 of the edits on the website. Wish I still had the article.

  • michaelrose@lemmy.ml
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    You see present day Russians commiting systemic war crimes led by a man wanted for crimes against humanity and doubt that the USSR is an egregious perpetrator of war crimes. See the holodomor. Did you think they only did mass execution and starved children but didn’t commit rape?

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      I’m gonna spare you a lot of trouble and tell you three simple facts

      1. Modern Russia is not the USSR, Putin is not Stalin and conflating the two is ideological laziness

      2. There is no clean war, if you somehow believe that there was ever a war without war crimes on both sides, I have several bridges to sell you in New York

      3. The Holodomor is literally a fascist myth meant to minimize and justify the Holocaust. Most modern historians agree that at worst, it was a mismanaged famine and not an attempt to commit genocide

    • grazing7264 [they/them, comrade/them]@hexbear.net
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      Jewish historians would call you a holocaust denier for validating the holdomor, the holodomor is direct Nazi propaganda, it’s Nazi Holocaust minimization and apologia.

      Double genocide theory is Holocaust denial.

    • autismdragon [he/him, they/them]@hexbear.netOP
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      You see present day Russians commiting systemic war crimes led by a man wanted for crimes against humanity and doubt that the USSR is an egregious perpetrator of war crimes.

      Insomuch as Russian warcrimes in Ukraine are even a thing (extant, but heavily exaggerated, and not out of line with other similar wars), the Stalin lead USSR and Putin lead Russia are completly different regimes. This statement is essentially racist because it implies that Russians are inherently inclined towards rape or something, because otherwise the Putin regime and the Stalin led USSR have nothing in common politically.

      See the holodomor.

      https://en.prolewiki.org/wiki/Holodomor https://www.reddit.com/r/TheDeprogram/comments/13vvvfs/new_way_of_determining_historical_truth_just/jm84jlj/

      Did you think they only did mass execution

      Executing Nazi POWs is not a bad thing. They were Nazis. The USSR actually held back on this as well.

      starved children

      There was no intentional starvation of anyone in the USSR.

      • grazing7264 [they/them, comrade/them]@hexbear.net
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        Also naming the Soviet famine is literally stolen valor by Nazis. Using it as justification for lebensraum

        The name Holodomor was chosen because it sounds like Holocaust. i.e the Holocaust of the would-be Aryan race lmao.

      • grazing7264 [they/them, comrade/them]@hexbear.net
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        Very funny that they mention starving children considering peasant landlords were doing exactly that in direct defiance of the redistributive agenda of the Soviet state.

        They want to feed little children during the famine? They should thank Stalin and the peasant armies for holding the Kulaks at gunpoint to give it to them.

        Kulaks would have loved to starve them out, poor people and their children were useless eaters in their eyes.

      • TranscendentalEmpire
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        This statement is essentially racist because it implies that Russians are inherently inclined towards rape or something, because otherwise the Putin regime and the Stalin led USSR have nothing in common politically.

        I don’t know if I would classify it as racism… unless you are claiming Russians aren’t normally perceived as white. It may be ethnically prejudice, but a large aspect of ethnicity is culture.

        While race may have no indication on political ideology or creed, ethnicity is firmly rooted in the history of a common people. Political organization may come and go, but there is usually still cultural norms that persist after their reorganization.

        Despite Russia changing from a true monarchy, to communism, and finally a federation, the aspect of the government that changed the least was how their military was organized and operated.

        Being conscripted by the Russian empire was basically a death sentence due to the length of contract, so much so that your family would throw you a funeral before you left. The command structure was strictly top down, and your fellow conscripts were in charge of maintaining discipline.

        This rough outline persisted with the USSR, which makes sense when you realize a lot of the general staff were also generals in the empire. The main aspect that transfered over pertaining to this claim is how the soviets conscripted soldiers, and how they maintain discipline over these conscripts.

        A great perspective from an actual Soviet about this topic is Zinky boys, which covers the Soviet Afghan war. Basically, evading conscription was very very easy for anyone who had the money for a bribe, or could play the system. Meaning that the majority of conscripts were either petty criminals or the rural poor.

        Which leads us to discipline…how do you keep a half million farmers and small bit criminals in military discipline? Well you have the conscripts do it themselves. Your first two years as a conscript you were beaten, robbed, and often times raped. After you graduated your two years, you would be doing the beating ,robbing, and raping.

        This seems hyperbolic, but it’s been widely reported from soldiers serving the Russian state for decades. The Russian federation has done the best when it comes to moving towards a regular professional army, but there are still wide spread reports of violent hazing and predation within their military. Though admittedly a lot less than what happened in Afghanistan or in chechnya.

        Basically, race doesn’t really behave anything to do with war crimes. It’s usually entirely based on how bad it is to be a soldier in the military you are serving, and how a military disciplines their soldiers.