• off_brand_@beehaw.org
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    1 year ago

    This does suck though. To start, a counter-offer-based model begs discrimination. You should be getting yearly raises commensurate with (at absolute bare minimum, not even necessarily accounting for inflation) the increase in productivity from year to year.

    This is to say nothing of work environments. Unions could reduce or end crunch. Not just as hard blockers, but mandating the kind of project management that doesn’t require crunch.

    There’s also a history of wage suppression.

    https://www.inc.com/jeremy-quittner/silicon-valley-wage-collusion-class-action.html

    They’ll only get better at it, especially as the market continues to turn and companies continue to consolidate.

    • P03 Locke@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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      1 year ago

      This does suck though. To start, a counter-offer-based model begs discrimination. You should be getting yearly raises commensurate with (at absolute bare minimum, not even necessarily accounting for inflation) the increase in productivity from year to year.

      I see that a lot with just the starting percentages of yearly raises. Most companies never keep up with market value, and by the time you’ve spent ten years there, you’re making much lower than the industry standard.

      The worst is employers who have some 1-5 scale for yearly performance and they gatekeep bosses who try to give out too many 5s. It’s not a competition among your peers. If the whole team is doing good and working hard, then reward all of them.

    • Steeve@lemmy.ca
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      1 year ago

      I don’t know about discrimination, you’d have to provide actual statistical evidence of that for me to believe it.

      I do get yearly raises, they’ve beaten inflation by a lot every year except for one. I left that job and took a 30% compensation increase elsewhere.

      I rarely see crunch time. I have no problems whatsoever with the frequency and intensity of it, but if it became a problem I’d leave and find a job elsewhere.

      I don’t work in silicon valley, but they make a lot more than I do and my wage doesn’t feel suppressed lol.

      The job market in tech is alive and well in my experience. There was overhiring during the pandemic which ended with some layoffs, I don’t see that as the market turning, but we’ll have to wait and see.

      I know Lemmy wants everyone everywhere unionized, but for me in my industry the arguments for it are hand wavy at best. I find it disingenuous to tell people in this industry that they don’t have bargaining power as an individual.

      • Blake [he/him]@feddit.uk
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        1 year ago

        It’s not that you don’t have individual bargaining power. It’s just that if you were unionised, you’d have much more.

        The extent to which you are arguing against overwhelming evidence cannot be understated. You are arguing against something less controversial than evolution.

        We know that unions promote economic equality and build worker power, helping workers to win increases in pay, better benefits, and safer working conditions.

        But that’s not all unions do. Unions also have powerful effects on workers’ lives outside of work.

        High unionization levels are associated with positive outcomes across multiple indicators of economic, personal, and democratic well-being

        Unions raise wages of unionized workers by roughly 20% and raise compensation, including both wages and benefits, by about 28%.

        Unionized workers are more likely to receive paid leave, have health insurance and pension plans.

        Unionized workers receive more generous health benefits than nonunionized workers.

        Unionized workers receive 26% more vacation time and 14% more total paid leave

        How unions help all workers

        Workers get significant economic benefits from labor unions

        Unionized workers earn 10.2% more than their non-union peers

        Supporting workers’ right to organize is a key way to help boost wages and support quality jobs.

        Unions provide major economic benefits for workers and families

        • Steeve@lemmy.ca
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          1 year ago

          Like I said, hand wavy at best

          Edit: Lol this dude ran back and added sources to previous comments after I called him out on not providing sources. Before the edit he claimed collective bargaining can get 50% raises for everyone.

          • Blake [he/him]@feddit.uk
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            1 year ago

            How is it hand wavy?!

            Imagine you are an employer with 100 employees, presented with the following situations.

            1. One employee demands a pay raise of 50%, or he’ll leave.
            2. 80 employees, including the employee above, demand a pay raise of 50% or they’ll all leave.

            In which of these two situations are you more likely to be willing to grant that 50% raise?

            • Steeve@lemmy.ca
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              1 year ago

              Right, and what percentage of unions are successfully negotiating 50% pay raises? Surface level nuance free thought experiments aren’t going to convince me here

              • Blake [he/him]@feddit.uk
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                1 year ago

                It was an analogy. The point is that a union gives you stronger negotiation power than you have alone. By not being in a union, you’re getting worse outcomes than you would have in a union. All of the statistics we have demonstrate that unionising results in a big increase in wages and benefits. You’re basically saying “no” because you think you know better than the science. This is just like anti-vax sentiment.

                • Steeve@lemmy.ca
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                  1 year ago

                  You’ve sent zero statistics and I’ve yet to see any statistics or even anecdotal evidence that pertains to my industry. All you’ve done is promise ridiculous benefits like 50% salary increases through unrealistic analogies. My experience is purely anecdotal, but frankly it’s better evidence than pipe dream analogies.

                  But sure, go around calling people anti-vax because you don’t know how to put together a proper argument, I’m sure that’s how you get people to change their minds about unionization. Why would I continue this conversation at this point? If this is something you’re passionate about I’d rethink your strategy.

                  • Blake [he/him]@feddit.uk
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                    1 year ago

                    The extent to which you are arguing against overwhelming evidence cannot be understated. You are arguing against something less controversial than evolution.

                    We know that unions promote economic equality and build worker power, helping workers to win increases in pay, better benefits, and safer working conditions.

                    But that’s not all unions do. Unions also have powerful effects on workers’ lives outside of work.

                    High unionization levels are associated with positive outcomes across multiple indicators of economic, personal, and democratic well-being

                    Unions raise wages of unionized workers by roughly 20% and raise compensation, including both wages and benefits, by about 28%.

                    Unionized workers are more likely to receive paid leave, have health insurance and pension plans.

                    Unionized workers receive more generous health benefits than nonunionized workers.

                    Unionized workers receive 26% more vacation time and 14% more total paid leave

                    How unions help all workers

                    Workers get significant economic benefits from labor unions

                    Unionized workers earn 10.2% more than their non-union peers

                    Supporting workers’ right to organize is a key way to help boost wages and support quality jobs.

                    Unions provide major economic benefits for workers and families