• VikingHippie@lemmy.wtf
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    1 year ago

    No they aren’t. They’re only a problem when not raised right. They DO need a firmer hand in training like literally every strong breed, which not all owners realise and take into account, but neglecting that isn’t their fault, it’s on the bad owners.

    • Square Singer@feddit.de
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      1 year ago

      You pointed out the solution: nobody should be allowed to keeep a dog unless they can prove they know how to correctly train and keep a dog. If the owners are the problem, the owners should be held accountable.

        • Square Singer@feddit.de
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          1 year ago

          Well, as long as we cannot be sure whether a dog owner has done their duty and properly trained the dog, we can never be sure whether a stranger’s dog is well trained or a purpously-trained killing machine. Or anything in between.

          • VikingHippie@lemmy.wtf
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            1 year ago

            By that logic, we should ban cars, motorcycles, boats, aeroplanes, horses and almost all other dogs

            Good luck with that…

            • Square Singer@feddit.de
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              1 year ago

              Come to think about that: to operate a car, motorcycle, boat or aeroplane you need to get a license, proving that you know what you are doing. Depending on vehicle and jurisdiction, you might even need to re-take tests frequently. All of these vehicles (in most jurisdictions) require frequent inspections and if they fail these inspections, you are no longer allowed to operate them.

              Also, there are very stringent laws on how you are allowed to operate these vehicles, with really harsh fines for violations of these laws.

              Looks like your stance on dog ownership is much more hardcore than mine, but I could get behind that.

          • strobel@sh.itjust.works
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            1 year ago

            Were you personally attacked by a pit bull, or was someone who’s close to you attacked? Your stance comes across as really paranoid, like you have a reason to fear dogs.

            • Square Singer@feddit.de
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              1 year ago

              I was attacked multiple times by dogs and I don’t care what race they are. All dogs in public should be on a leash and muzzled.

              And every time I was attacked I was just walking down the road and some random dog without leash or muzzle just attacked and bit me. And every time the owner was like “The dog has never done anything like that”. That totally makes everything better. I always felt so honored that I was the first one that dog hurt. I still got scars on my shoulder from that one time and that was almost 20 years ago.

              I don’t think breed-based laws are a good idea, because they make it look like every other breed is not dangerous.

              I think, all dogs should be leashed and muzzled in public and all owners should have to get a license that includes a test and yearly inspections first.

              • strobel@sh.itjust.works
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                1 year ago

                That’s extremely unfortunate. Of the many many dogs I’ve come across, big & small, including a few strays that I was unwise to approach so casually, I’ve never been bitten or attacked. Perhaps I was merely fortunate. Knowing what you’ve gone through, your stance is understandable, although I don’t entirely agree with it. Yes, all dogs in public should be leashed, although I find it unnecessary to put a muzzle on all but the largest dogs who have the actual strength to cause serious harm. I definitely don’t agree with any sort of licensing or routine inspection for dog owners, but I get why you would think this is necessary… perhaps its best if we simply agree to disagree.

                • Square Singer@feddit.de
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                  1 year ago

                  The issue is that for every good dog owner who trains their dog, puts it on a leash in public, picks up the dog shit and makes sure their dog can’t cause trouble, there is also some idiot who got a dog on a whim, mistreats it and doesn’t train it at all.

                  And most often the people who don’t care for training their dog are also the people who don’t care to secure the dog in public places.

                  I know that’s a generalisation and there probably are some counter examples. But a “don’t care” attitude generally runs through everything a person does.

                  And having a dog is a multiplier of what trouble that “don’t care” attitude can cause.

                  That’s why I am for licensing/inspections. For someone who does care it probably won’t change much. They already go to a training course with their dog. Just give them a license for completing the training/make that training mandatory if you don’t want to call it a license.

                  Any reasonable dog owner will be at vet in regular intervals anyway. Just let the vet not only check whether the dog is physically fit, but also if it obeys it’s owner and if it shows signs of abuse. And make that checkup mandatory. It’s better for the dogs anyway if they get their health checked regularly.

                  I see why you think it’s not necessary, because you might be the kind of dog owner who cares and then it’s just additional hassle. But, as I said, there are many who don’t care, even if in your bubble (and I don’t mean this word negatively) everyone cares for their dogs.

              • Daft_ish@lemmy.world
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                1 year ago

                Man, I have to wonder, what are your thoughts on gun control? I mean the yearly dog inspector is great but like, what about social services? You think there is room in the budget to provide care for the less fortunate?

                • Square Singer@feddit.de
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                  1 year ago

                  Social services don’t pay for your dog’s vet. Why should it pay for other dog expenses?

                  Regarding gun control, I luckily live in a country with decent gun control laws. So our death rate due to gun violence in peace time doesn’t resemble the civilian casulty rate in some war zones.

                  • Daft_ish@lemmy.world
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                    1 year ago

                    So how will you actually regulate it without a department of dog liscencing?

                    Let me add, we are talking about millions of dogs.

        • Saik0@lemmy.saik0.com
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          1 year ago

          Ah yes… the person with more than 25 years of experience must be wrong! Ya’ll are a trip.

          • VikingHippie@lemmy.wtf
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            1 year ago

            Did you even read the article? He left a poorly socialised dog untethered and unattended.

            That would stil be extremely irresponsible dog ownership if he had been the undisputed king of dog trainers for 800 years.

            • strobel@sh.itjust.works
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              1 year ago

              Thus why the source should be questioned… it’s TMZ, all trashy celebrity gossip. I doubt this incident even happened.

          • Flying Squid@lemmy.world
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            1 year ago

            There are doctors with 25 years of experience that still fuck up constantly and get away with it.

            Argument from authority is a fallacy for a reason.

            • Saik0@lemmy.saik0.com
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              1 year ago

              The discussion is literally that there are bad owners and those owners are solely responsible for the pit bulls reputation. I’m proving that wrong by showing an “expert” in the field… If an expert in the field cannot do it… Then why would a lay person be able to?

              This isn’t argument from authority. You just like screaming random shit to shut down discussions because you don’t have any better evidence against the argument.

      • nBodyProblem@lemmy.world
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        1 year ago

        Cesar Milan is considered a hack by almost every reputable dog trainer, and his methods conflict with every modern study I have seen on how to effectively train a dog.

          • nBodyProblem@lemmy.world
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            1 year ago

            I mean, you can Google it and find countless sources, if you really care they are readily available within seconds.

            The Tl;dr is that his methods are based in dominance theory. Dominance theory has been widely debunked and the methods that arose from it are widely considered to exacerbate fear and aggression related issues in dogs. Caesar’s celebrity status has contributed to its persistence in the popular imagination.