If only Non-Muslims were aware of this fact. There is nothing stronger than a Muslim’s love for another Muslim, yet simultaneously the opposite is also true. I’m not sure if you’re aware of sects in Islam, but extremists from the two major sects (Sunni’s and Shia’s) absolutely despise each other to the point where they’ll claim the other isn’t a true Muslim.
There is nothing more annoying than people starting a post by implying they know their stuffs only to end up with the most basic, ignorant conclusions.
Those you call extremists are not the extremists of Shia or Sunna,they are their own thing, ISIS is for instance is just a modern freak that combine aspects from the Khawarij and the Assassins with modernist/post-modern elements.
Keep in mind that Sunna weren’t formed as a “sect”, they were the anti-sect guys as such they were always defined as the opposite to whatever new sect was rising untill around the forth-fifth century where the madrassa system started spreading, and who was the very first sect to immerge? The Khawarij, so imagine how annoying it is to confuse sunnists with their very first enemy, Shai weren’t even THAT relevant for many centuries and the prime ideological opponents for sunnist were the Mu’utazillies and similair sects for most of the early centuries.
Not a Muslim, but isn’t it more accurate to just call them Wahabists? It seems to be a pretty accurate description of their ideology than the Isma’ili Assassins and the Khawarij.
No, that is a huge miconception. Wahhabis are specifically the Saudi-brand of salafism. They tend to generally be pro-Saudi (which ISIS certainly isn’t). But it is true that Mohammed ibn Abdul Wahhab’s takfirism (excommunication) has influenced all terror groups. In academia, these groups are usually referred to as “takifirs”.
Meanwhile the Taliban is something all together. They aren’t salafi or wahhabi.
Wahabism is literally named after its founder Ibn abd al-wahhab…it was basically the guy’s attempt to “fix” Hanbalism(one of the four surviving Sunnist theology/law schools) so in another word abridged Sunnism, which is why every expert agree on Wahabism being a modern movement as it is a reaction to its envirement first and formost especially its war on superstition, tribalism, nationalism, ultra-suffism and blind imitation of past scholars …the biggest problems however were that Ibn Abd-Al Wahhab himeself was as much of a politician as he was a scholar and that he wasn’t special as a scholar and yet become a figurehead that influencial, a good counter exemple is Shah Waliullah Dehlawi someone that is far more competent and also did his best to ‘‘fix’’ things and was as a result influencial on almost all reform mouvements in the Indian subcontinent and SEA.
so yes Wahabism does display hints of what will eventually come with Isis but the difference is that its problems are rooted in deep misunderstanding and bad practice and proficiency of both theology and especially jurisprudence, while for the likes of Isis those mistakes are their very basis upon which they build everything, ex: a Wahabist may call X muslim an infidel based on superficial reading of either that muslim’s practice or the scripture, while for Isis your Islam was always in doubt until you prove otherwise (by thouroughly anouncing allegience duh), a good show of this is how Wahabist had no problem fighting alongside Afghans vs Soviets despite them being mostly Hanafi(another classical sunni law school, Taliban are to Hanafism what Wahabism is to Hanbalism, kind of), while Isis just bomb everyone and everything.
their Khawarij similarity are way too striking really, the reason I also added the Assassin is more because of the way the group is structured(like a cult) and also to deal with the parts where they are different from Khawarij for instance one consistent patern with Isis is their members never showing any sign of religiousity prior to joining them or up until they partake in a attak(like the recent ones getting caught in a bar) when the Khawarij were leading priest/monk like life and killing was just another part of their day.
as for Ibn Taymiyya, sadly I don’t think In can clarify it in one post and the only accessible non academic piece on him is hot garbage(the video by Lets Talk Religion), just understand that you are talking about someone that simultaneously inspired every side of reform mouvenments including even Shia and non-islamist ones, people desperately needed an authority to lean on and he was perfect in many ways…yes he was a Hanbali scholar that can also be counted as independent and yes he is definitely a proto-Salafi but we are in a situation that the groups usually attached to him(Wahabism and Salafism) can’t even read any of his actualy long books, as they lack the tools to do so and will need to first study things they consider innovations and leading to herisy so like everyone else they take whatever they like and pretends the rest doesn’t exist. they are not the only ones either:Tabataba’i for instance was ready to close his eyes on Ibn Taymiyya takes on Shia and celebrate his critics on classical Logic, some secularist would also lean on his reverence of ‘‘Ijtihad’’ that is not being tied to immitation of previous scholar to pass rullings that will make him roll in his grave in agony and so on…you are talking about a character in the magnitude of people like Kant, Marx, Descarte…except due to reasons he was pretty much forgotten not even a century after his death and half a millinium later he was called upon by all, of course it will lead to chaos; it was only this past decade while living in what we call “post-salafism” that we started to trully gasp his thought as it is but the damage is done and he will continue to be viewed the ideological inspiration of extremist for many long years the same way poor Al-Ghazali is still somehow responsible for the fall of science in islamic history (lol), however I think some current parties of Salafists are kind of a close enough representation, however I don’t know if they exist in non-arabic speaking countries. just keep in mind that Ibn Taymiyya supposed followers varries from Isis to probably the most active Arab intellectual in recent years, whom started a big movement of translating major works both oriantalists and otherwise(like the Handbooks series issued by many elite universities) and were responsible the most for bringing in and populating Heidegger and Wittgenstein.so one must be careful what to attribute to him.
Obviously the vast majority don’t agree with these extremist views, I’m just referring to the 1% of people who say it out of pure spite and hatred. Although I’m well aware it’s more likely for a Sunni to say it than a Shia. Hell, I don’t have to look further than my own family - one of my uncles actually believes that Shia’s aren’t true Muslims. It’s crazy.
Yes but I say this as someone raised Sunni, Sunni sectarianism (to the point of denial of their Muslimhood) towards Shi’a is far far more prevalent than the other way around.
It should be noted, for the avoidance of doubt, that both Saudi Arabia and the Muslim Brotherhood are Sunni. The conflict comes from the fact that the Muslim Brotherhood is Islamist whereas the current Saudi crown prince is pursuing a policy of westernisation and liberalisation (and probably eventually secularisation).
The rivalry is power politics, not particularly ideological. Saudi Arabian state has been opposed to MB for long before MBS and is mainly concerned about a rival political operator.
A little known fact I’m learning these past few weeks is nobody hates muslims more than other muslims
And the biggest victims of Islamic extremism are Muslims themselves.
Yeah just look at timur the lame
If only Non-Muslims were aware of this fact. There is nothing stronger than a Muslim’s love for another Muslim, yet simultaneously the opposite is also true. I’m not sure if you’re aware of sects in Islam, but extremists from the two major sects (Sunni’s and Shia’s) absolutely despise each other to the point where they’ll claim the other isn’t a true Muslim.
There is nothing more annoying than people starting a post by implying they know their stuffs only to end up with the most basic, ignorant conclusions.
Those you call extremists are not the extremists of Shia or Sunna,they are their own thing, ISIS is for instance is just a modern freak that combine aspects from the Khawarij and the Assassins with modernist/post-modern elements.
Keep in mind that Sunna weren’t formed as a “sect”, they were the anti-sect guys as such they were always defined as the opposite to whatever new sect was rising untill around the forth-fifth century where the madrassa system started spreading, and who was the very first sect to immerge? The Khawarij, so imagine how annoying it is to confuse sunnists with their very first enemy, Shai weren’t even THAT relevant for many centuries and the prime ideological opponents for sunnist were the Mu’utazillies and similair sects for most of the early centuries.
Not a Muslim, but isn’t it more accurate to just call them Wahabists? It seems to be a pretty accurate description of their ideology than the Isma’ili Assassins and the Khawarij.
No, that is a huge miconception. Wahhabis are specifically the Saudi-brand of salafism. They tend to generally be pro-Saudi (which ISIS certainly isn’t). But it is true that Mohammed ibn Abdul Wahhab’s takfirism (excommunication) has influenced all terror groups. In academia, these groups are usually referred to as “takifirs”.
Meanwhile the Taliban is something all together. They aren’t salafi or wahhabi.
Wahabism is literally named after its founder Ibn abd al-wahhab…it was basically the guy’s attempt to “fix” Hanbalism(one of the four surviving Sunnist theology/law schools) so in another word abridged Sunnism, which is why every expert agree on Wahabism being a modern movement as it is a reaction to its envirement first and formost especially its war on superstition, tribalism, nationalism, ultra-suffism and blind imitation of past scholars …the biggest problems however were that Ibn Abd-Al Wahhab himeself was as much of a politician as he was a scholar and that he wasn’t special as a scholar and yet become a figurehead that influencial, a good counter exemple is Shah Waliullah Dehlawi someone that is far more competent and also did his best to ‘‘fix’’ things and was as a result influencial on almost all reform mouvements in the Indian subcontinent and SEA.
so yes Wahabism does display hints of what will eventually come with Isis but the difference is that its problems are rooted in deep misunderstanding and bad practice and proficiency of both theology and especially jurisprudence, while for the likes of Isis those mistakes are their very basis upon which they build everything, ex: a Wahabist may call X muslim an infidel based on superficial reading of either that muslim’s practice or the scripture, while for Isis your Islam was always in doubt until you prove otherwise (by thouroughly anouncing allegience duh), a good show of this is how Wahabist had no problem fighting alongside Afghans vs Soviets despite them being mostly Hanafi(another classical sunni law school, Taliban are to Hanafism what Wahabism is to Hanbalism, kind of), while Isis just bomb everyone and everything.
their Khawarij similarity are way too striking really, the reason I also added the Assassin is more because of the way the group is structured(like a cult) and also to deal with the parts where they are different from Khawarij for instance one consistent patern with Isis is their members never showing any sign of religiousity prior to joining them or up until they partake in a attak(like the recent ones getting caught in a bar) when the Khawarij were leading priest/monk like life and killing was just another part of their day.
as for Ibn Taymiyya, sadly I don’t think In can clarify it in one post and the only accessible non academic piece on him is hot garbage(the video by Lets Talk Religion), just understand that you are talking about someone that simultaneously inspired every side of reform mouvenments including even Shia and non-islamist ones, people desperately needed an authority to lean on and he was perfect in many ways…yes he was a Hanbali scholar that can also be counted as independent and yes he is definitely a proto-Salafi but we are in a situation that the groups usually attached to him(Wahabism and Salafism) can’t even read any of his actualy long books, as they lack the tools to do so and will need to first study things they consider innovations and leading to herisy so like everyone else they take whatever they like and pretends the rest doesn’t exist. they are not the only ones either:Tabataba’i for instance was ready to close his eyes on Ibn Taymiyya takes on Shia and celebrate his critics on classical Logic, some secularist would also lean on his reverence of ‘‘Ijtihad’’ that is not being tied to immitation of previous scholar to pass rullings that will make him roll in his grave in agony and so on…you are talking about a character in the magnitude of people like Kant, Marx, Descarte…except due to reasons he was pretty much forgotten not even a century after his death and half a millinium later he was called upon by all, of course it will lead to chaos; it was only this past decade while living in what we call “post-salafism” that we started to trully gasp his thought as it is but the damage is done and he will continue to be viewed the ideological inspiration of extremist for many long years the same way poor Al-Ghazali is still somehow responsible for the fall of science in islamic history (lol), however I think some current parties of Salafists are kind of a close enough representation, however I don’t know if they exist in non-arabic speaking countries. just keep in mind that Ibn Taymiyya supposed followers varries from Isis to probably the most active Arab intellectual in recent years, whom started a big movement of translating major works both oriantalists and otherwise(like the Handbooks series issued by many elite universities) and were responsible the most for bringing in and populating Heidegger and Wittgenstein.so one must be careful what to attribute to him.
There is no mainstream Shia scholar who does not consider Sunnis as Muslims.
Obviously the vast majority don’t agree with these extremist views, I’m just referring to the 1% of people who say it out of pure spite and hatred. Although I’m well aware it’s more likely for a Sunni to say it than a Shia. Hell, I don’t have to look further than my own family - one of my uncles actually believes that Shia’s aren’t true Muslims. It’s crazy.
Yes but I say this as someone raised Sunni, Sunni sectarianism (to the point of denial of their Muslimhood) towards Shi’a is far far more prevalent than the other way around.
It should be noted, for the avoidance of doubt, that both Saudi Arabia and the Muslim Brotherhood are Sunni. The conflict comes from the fact that the Muslim Brotherhood is Islamist whereas the current Saudi crown prince is pursuing a policy of westernisation and liberalisation (and probably eventually secularisation).
The rivalry is power politics, not particularly ideological. Saudi Arabian state has been opposed to MB for long before MBS and is mainly concerned about a rival political operator.
Schrödinger’s Muslim.
Muslim brotherhood are the founders and currently affiliated with the some of the most evil people on the planet, like Erdogan, Hamas and Hezbollah.
https://carnegie-mec.org/2018/07/11/flexible-resistance-how-hezbollah-and-hamas-are-mending-ties-pub-76782
TIL Muslims are basically Uchihas. /s