As lawmakers around the world weigh bans of 'forever chemicals,” many manufacturers are pushing back, saying there often is no substitute.

As lawmakers around the world weigh bans of 'forever chemicals,” many manufacturers are pushing back, saying there often is no substitute.

  • alvvayson@lemmy.world
    342·
    11 months ago

    One of their uses is in firefighting chemical fires.

    When an electric car is on fire, you need PFAS to stop the lithium fire. Water just can’t stop it.

    Of course, before batteries we used gasoline.

    I imagine their might be more of these cases where modern technology relies on unsustainable practices.

    • Vodik_VDK@lemmy.world
      8·
      11 months ago

      TheConversation.com

      Another factor that makes lithium-ion battery fires challenging to handle is oxygen generation. When the metal oxides in a battery’s cathode, or positively charged electrode, are heated, they decompose and release oxygen gas. Fires need oxygen to burn, so a battery that can create oxygen can sustain a fire.

      Because of the electrolyte’s nature, a 20% increase in a lithium-ion battery’s temperature causes some unwanted chemical reactions to occur much faster, which releases excessive heat. This excess heat increases the battery temperature, which in turn speeds up the reactions. The increased battery temperature increases the reaction rate, creating a process called thermal runaway. When this happens, the temperature in a battery can rise from 212 F (100 C) to 1,800 F (1000 C) in a second.

    • dan1101
      7·
      11 months ago

      Just because PFAS is one way doesn’t mean there aren’t other things that would work.

        • dragonflyteaparty@lemmy.world
          2·
          11 months ago

          So for electrical fires, they use carbon dioxide to smother the fire and sodium bicarbonate to aid in putting it out, along with class c fire extinguishers. Class c are just carbon dioxide.

          For chemical fires, carbon dioxide extinguishers are also used. They can use extinguishers with bromochlorodifluoromethane, aka Halon 1211, (which I guess could be a pfas chemical, but I don’t find anything either way).

          • Haywire
            3·
            11 months ago

            Electrical fires don’t generate their own oxygen.

              • Haywire
                1·
                11 months ago

                I don’t know that it is a good thing. It just means you can’t use baking soda to out it out.

            • Kiwi@lemmy.fmhy.net
              1·
              11 months ago

              Well, normal electric fires don’t but, as @Vodik_VDK@lemmy.world already quoted, lithium-ion battery fires do generate their own oxygen

              • Haywire
                1·
                11 months ago

                That was my point to. I guess I wasn’t clear enough.

      • Haywire
        34·
        11 months ago

        Wouldn’t it just be better to cure cancer? Why don’t the scientists just do that?

    • Knightfox@lemmy.oneEnglish
      1·
      11 months ago

      The big one is airplane fires, AFFF is the best foam for putting out a jet fuel fire.