If you see my reply to questions about Hyundai on the list, Toyota and many other companies do alot of PR to maintain certain reputations, and Toyota does a spectacular job of this. I do think they make more reliable than average cars, no doubt. But here’s some lesser known facts, Mazda has actually beat Toyota for 2 years running as the most reliable brand according to Consumer Reports, Toyota has had the largest, and multiple other recalls in automotive history in the last 10-15 years, some causing death and injury (Takata airbags, floormat issues, and more), and further they have lobbied heavily against electric technologies since they were salty they invested so much in hydrogen fuel cell systems. Again, it’s not like all Toyota’s are awful, but while still reliable, they’ve been dropping the ball big time lately, and that’s not to mention how utterly mundane their cars are which is a little more personal preference based. Thanks for asking, I hope that helps explain my reasoning!
I did see your answer to this question in another comment. So thank you for taking the time to address me as well. I was not aware of Mazda reliability so thanks for that too.
Now that you mention it I remember reading about the Prius problem. Something about that they could not stop. I also knew but forgot about the large number of recalls. They had to replace the frame on a large number of Tacoma’s. How do they mess up so bad that they basically had to assemble every Tacoma twice? Rhetorical, no need to answer.
Sure, thanks for asking, as with anything, these are my opinions and I hope you form your own as well. My opinions aren’t perfect, and none of these companies are outright “good” or “bad”.
Toyota because of their heavy lobbying against electric car technologies simply because they sunk so much money into Hydrogen technologies and wanted to be the winner. Also they have had a slew of absolutely colossal recalls lately for avoidable stuff, and people have died (see drivers floormat issues).
Hyundai because they’ve been a leader in electrification of vehicles, have always given me exceptional customer support, and all around are just making quality stuff right now.
Volvo because throughout there history there’s few if any automotive companies that have shown more of a commitment to doing the right thing, they pushed for safety regulations back in the day and the implications have ripples to today, and still are, alongside also doing well with electrification.
In a vacuum, sure, hydrogen for personal vehicles is great. In reality, though, you’re down at about 30% efficiency between the H2 geting extracted from wherever, and you gassing up your car.
Additionally, if more than 5% of that H2 escapes into the atmosphere at any time, it actually does more damage to the planet than fossil fuels, by preoccupying the hydroxyl radicals in the sky that would otherwise be breaking down greenhouse gases.
Add on to that, that if I actually had to pay for hydrogen fuel, it would cost me 6x as much per mile to run my Hyundai Nexo than a Prius. H2 in SoCal is currently $36/kg at the pump, having doubled or nearly tripled in price in the last 18 months. (Somehow, in Korea it’s only $2/kg.)
H2 fuel cell tech has its place as a fuel (but not in combustion engines like BMW is trying to do though… that’s just a farce). Trucks/long-haul vehicles, planes, ships all would be better off running H2. It fuels up fast, is way lighter than any battery, and is pretty darn energy dense. But for around-town driving, BEVs right now are just a much better option. Their problem is heavy batteries and comparatively longer fueling time than gasoline/hydrogen.
Fossil fuels are just amazingly energy dense, and we’re not going to replace them 1:1 any time soon. Every alternative involves massive tradeoffs.
Source: I own a 2022 Hyundai Nexo hydrogen SUV. Love it as a car, but most of the H2 fueling stations are broken down half the time (you need to check an app to see which one, if any, are currently working), and the price of the fuel in the US is no longer viable. When my free fuel card expires in 2025, I’ll be getting either a BEV or PHEV. Lucid or Polaris are looking nice.
I 100% wholeheartedly agree, but to actively lobby against the use of other clean alternatives that show promise are better established setting back the environmental progress make in this industry, just because they want to make the big money on THEIR clean technology, is what I have issue with. That is crappy in my books.
Hydrogen fuel cells are genuinely better than lithium powered EVs.
I’m not trying to say toyota is a “good” brand, but your reasoning makes no sense. I’m pretty sure Honda was the one who invested most into fuel cells, the clarity FCX came out way back in 2008, and they are still doing development on a new CRV. Not to mention Hyundai also has a hydrogen fuel cell EV, this is not a bad investment by anyone.
Like do you think Toyota was lobbying because they were investing billions into hydrogen EVs, or maybe it was the hundreds of billions they’ve spent over a lifetime making ICE engines, transmissions, belts, brakes, and everything else.
Hydrogen EVs main problem is fuel production and transportation, there is no way around that. But in terms of pollution during production, hydrogen fuel cells are a fraction of the impact that a shortly lived lithium pack will have. Not to mention you can recycle some gas powered cars by making hydrogen combustion engines, no new production is the best kind of emission reduction.
Hi, thanks for the extra information you clearly know your stuff on this topic. See my reply above, I seem to have been misunderstood sorry if I was unclear. I have zero issue with hydrogen technologies for vehicles, they’re great, and even better in some ways than battery options. My issue is solely with Toyota actively avoiding going full electric themselves and lobbying EVs due to their heavy investment in hydrogen. I wasn’t actually aware Honda had sunk in as much as Toyota in this area as well so thanks for the extra info. LIke with anything (especially with a list as long as mine!) I don’t pretend to know everything, but it was certainly my understanding that Toyota was fighting against battery EV’s specifically because of their desire to get a lead foothold in the hydrogen vehicle sector and make this the dominant clean option, perhaps I was mistaken!
You’re 100% correct, fundamentally the drive system is still electric motors (and all the advantages that come with that!) I would have to disagree that lithium-ion EV is doomed, I think it’s better to conceptualize it as a stepping stone technology, I think we will move away from Li-Ion in the relatively near future, but it has supercharged (pun intended) investment and research in battery technologies (lithium fluoride, solid state, etc.) that will likely take over this mantle. I would be surprised given the necessary infrastructure, and lack of adoption thusfar if hydrogen did become the dominant mode of power in vehicles, but any of these would be a step in the right direction even if none are perfect currently. Thanks for your comment, I added some more on my thoughts on hydrogen in replies above as well!
Can you clarify for Toyota, Hyundai and Volvo?
I’m curious about Toyota as well. They are regarded as one of, if not the most, reliable car manufacturers.
If you see my reply to questions about Hyundai on the list, Toyota and many other companies do alot of PR to maintain certain reputations, and Toyota does a spectacular job of this. I do think they make more reliable than average cars, no doubt. But here’s some lesser known facts, Mazda has actually beat Toyota for 2 years running as the most reliable brand according to Consumer Reports, Toyota has had the largest, and multiple other recalls in automotive history in the last 10-15 years, some causing death and injury (Takata airbags, floormat issues, and more), and further they have lobbied heavily against electric technologies since they were salty they invested so much in hydrogen fuel cell systems. Again, it’s not like all Toyota’s are awful, but while still reliable, they’ve been dropping the ball big time lately, and that’s not to mention how utterly mundane their cars are which is a little more personal preference based. Thanks for asking, I hope that helps explain my reasoning!
I did see your answer to this question in another comment. So thank you for taking the time to address me as well. I was not aware of Mazda reliability so thanks for that too.
Now that you mention it I remember reading about the Prius problem. Something about that they could not stop. I also knew but forgot about the large number of recalls. They had to replace the frame on a large number of Tacoma’s. How do they mess up so bad that they basically had to assemble every Tacoma twice? Rhetorical, no need to answer.
Sure, thanks for asking, as with anything, these are my opinions and I hope you form your own as well. My opinions aren’t perfect, and none of these companies are outright “good” or “bad”.
Toyota because of their heavy lobbying against electric car technologies simply because they sunk so much money into Hydrogen technologies and wanted to be the winner. Also they have had a slew of absolutely colossal recalls lately for avoidable stuff, and people have died (see drivers floormat issues).
Hyundai because they’ve been a leader in electrification of vehicles, have always given me exceptional customer support, and all around are just making quality stuff right now.
Volvo because throughout there history there’s few if any automotive companies that have shown more of a commitment to doing the right thing, they pushed for safety regulations back in the day and the implications have ripples to today, and still are, alongside also doing well with electrification.
I’m not sure why you are considering Toyota as evil for opting for Hydrogen Technologies. It is a viable alternate and clean fuel.
In a vacuum, sure, hydrogen for personal vehicles is great. In reality, though, you’re down at about 30% efficiency between the H2 geting extracted from wherever, and you gassing up your car.
Additionally, if more than 5% of that H2 escapes into the atmosphere at any time, it actually does more damage to the planet than fossil fuels, by preoccupying the hydroxyl radicals in the sky that would otherwise be breaking down greenhouse gases.
Add on to that, that if I actually had to pay for hydrogen fuel, it would cost me 6x as much per mile to run my Hyundai Nexo than a Prius. H2 in SoCal is currently $36/kg at the pump, having doubled or nearly tripled in price in the last 18 months. (Somehow, in Korea it’s only $2/kg.)
H2 fuel cell tech has its place as a fuel (but not in combustion engines like BMW is trying to do though… that’s just a farce). Trucks/long-haul vehicles, planes, ships all would be better off running H2. It fuels up fast, is way lighter than any battery, and is pretty darn energy dense. But for around-town driving, BEVs right now are just a much better option. Their problem is heavy batteries and comparatively longer fueling time than gasoline/hydrogen.
Fossil fuels are just amazingly energy dense, and we’re not going to replace them 1:1 any time soon. Every alternative involves massive tradeoffs.
Source: I own a 2022 Hyundai Nexo hydrogen SUV. Love it as a car, but most of the H2 fueling stations are broken down half the time (you need to check an app to see which one, if any, are currently working), and the price of the fuel in the US is no longer viable. When my free fuel card expires in 2025, I’ll be getting either a BEV or PHEV. Lucid or Polaris are looking nice.
I 100% wholeheartedly agree, but to actively lobby against the use of other clean alternatives that show promise are better established setting back the environmental progress make in this industry, just because they want to make the big money on THEIR clean technology, is what I have issue with. That is crappy in my books.
Hydrogen fuel cells are genuinely better than lithium powered EVs.
I’m not trying to say toyota is a “good” brand, but your reasoning makes no sense. I’m pretty sure Honda was the one who invested most into fuel cells, the clarity FCX came out way back in 2008, and they are still doing development on a new CRV. Not to mention Hyundai also has a hydrogen fuel cell EV, this is not a bad investment by anyone.
Like do you think Toyota was lobbying because they were investing billions into hydrogen EVs, or maybe it was the hundreds of billions they’ve spent over a lifetime making ICE engines, transmissions, belts, brakes, and everything else.
Hydrogen EVs main problem is fuel production and transportation, there is no way around that. But in terms of pollution during production, hydrogen fuel cells are a fraction of the impact that a shortly lived lithium pack will have. Not to mention you can recycle some gas powered cars by making hydrogen combustion engines, no new production is the best kind of emission reduction.
Hi, thanks for the extra information you clearly know your stuff on this topic. See my reply above, I seem to have been misunderstood sorry if I was unclear. I have zero issue with hydrogen technologies for vehicles, they’re great, and even better in some ways than battery options. My issue is solely with Toyota actively avoiding going full electric themselves and lobbying EVs due to their heavy investment in hydrogen. I wasn’t actually aware Honda had sunk in as much as Toyota in this area as well so thanks for the extra info. LIke with anything (especially with a list as long as mine!) I don’t pretend to know everything, but it was certainly my understanding that Toyota was fighting against battery EV’s specifically because of their desire to get a lead foothold in the hydrogen vehicle sector and make this the dominant clean option, perhaps I was mistaken!
12/10 for Hyundai from me too. Exceptional value for money and solid motors (In the EU)
Hydrogen cars are EVs. The lithium-ion EV is the doomed technology, propped up by hype and subsidies.
You’re 100% correct, fundamentally the drive system is still electric motors (and all the advantages that come with that!) I would have to disagree that lithium-ion EV is doomed, I think it’s better to conceptualize it as a stepping stone technology, I think we will move away from Li-Ion in the relatively near future, but it has supercharged (pun intended) investment and research in battery technologies (lithium fluoride, solid state, etc.) that will likely take over this mantle. I would be surprised given the necessary infrastructure, and lack of adoption thusfar if hydrogen did become the dominant mode of power in vehicles, but any of these would be a step in the right direction even if none are perfect currently. Thanks for your comment, I added some more on my thoughts on hydrogen in replies above as well!