• Cleverdawny
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    1 year ago

    They can’t occupy Gaza and that’s why they left. Underestimating Hamas is how the Oct 7th attack happened, you wanna do that again

    I think Israel isn’t going to be willing to leave Gaza until Hamas is destroyed or degraded past the point of it being a serious threat. Which I get. Oct 7 was unconscionable.

    They wouldn’t do it for Palestinian interests, they’d do it satisfy their own population so they don’t revolt.

    Dude, in both of those countries, Palestinians are a maligned minority and the government is not friendly with extremist religious orgs which would be sympathetic to the kind of genocidal goals of Hamas. Hamas gets their support mainly from individuals in the Arabian peninsula and Iran - neither of which can prosecute a war, the first because the countries there are too busy being fat and rich, the second because of geographical distance and their insistence on the use of proxies.

    Neither Iraq nor Afghanistan have the capability to do anything here. What is the Taliban going to do, try to airlift some mountain jihadis with rifles in to the West Bank through hostile airspace? They’re not friendly with Iran, and it’s not like they have great relations with Iraq or Syria. Iraqi politicians know not to bite the hand that feeds (the US) and are openly hostile to religious extremist nationalism in ISIS. They also don’t have the capability to prosecute a war against anyone other than maybe Syria, so, it’s just not happening.

    • queermunist she/her@lemmy.ml
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      1 year ago

      I think Israel isn’t going to be willing to leave Gaza until Hamas is destroyed or degraded past the point of it being a serious threat

      Can you see them destroying Hamas without killing hundreds of thousands of people? Hamas is of the people, the democratically elected government. Can Hamas be exterminated without also exterminating Gaza? Can it be done without genocide?

      Dude, in both of those countries, Palestinians are a maligned minority and the government is not friendly with extremist religious orgs which would be sympathetic to the kind of genocidal goals of Hamas.

      And in both those countries the masses are losing their fucking minds because a genocide is happening just across the border. The ruling class may not have an interest in fighting Israel or have sympathy for Hamas, but the overwhelming majority of the masses clearly do. Also, I notice you glossed over how it is very obviously in Russia’s interests to see this blow up into a regional war. Oh and look, Russia has a tight relationship with Bashar al-Assad, yet another player that could involve itself in a regional conflict.

      I’m not saying a regional conflict is inevitable (I think it’s likely, but we could avoid it maybe), I’m saying if Israel tried killing everyone in Gaza it absolutely would become a regional war. This forcible population transfer, which is clearly happening and I’m not even sure how you can deny it, is a compromise position. And it’s still genocide.

      • Cleverdawny
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        1 year ago

        Can you see them destroying Hamas without killing hundreds of thousands of people? Hamas is of the people, the democratically elected government.

        Then it’s going to get messy, isn’t it? Hamas should probably surrender so the war can end.

        And in both those countries the masses are losing their fucking minds because a genocide is happening just across the border.

        Dude my best friend is Egyptian and no they are not

        • queermunist she/her@lemmy.ml
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          1 year ago

          Then it’s going to get messy, isn’t it? Hamas should probably surrender so the war can end.

          If Hamas surrenders they just go back to being slowly squeezed to death. There’s no good outcomes for them.

          Death by a thousand cuts or death from missile strikes.

          Dude my best friend is Egyptian and no they are not

          I didn’t realize your friend spoke for all of Egypt!

          Well Egypt’s president is using the Israel-Gaza war to build up popular support and rally the masses behind his unpopular government, actively fomenting protests and demonstrations against Israel and in support of Palestinians. He’s actively riling people up and that has consequences, especially when he then turns around and beats the same protesters he lured into the streets! That’s happening on top of their debt crisis and economic troubles! Even if Egypt never gets involved, Israel’s war might destabilize Egypt itself. Oops!

          This has the potential to spill over and the fact that you refuse to believe it just means you’ll be caught flat footed when it happens. I hope what Israel is doing doesn’t get your friend hurt.

          • Cleverdawny
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            1 year ago

            If Hamas surrenders the blockade can end and Gaza can have an economic future - if, that is, the people of Gaza put a group interested in building that future into power and not another group interested in genocidal conquest of Israel.

            That’s happening on top of their debt crisis and economic troubles! Even if Egypt never gets involved, Israel’s war might destabilize Egypt itself. Oops!

            You’re right about the debt crisis within Egypt, but likely what’s going to happen there is that the IMF will bail them out with the condition that the military owned enterprises which the state subsidizes will be privatized. They’re a serious source of economic malaise, as is the construction of the new administrative capital. The most serious threats here to Egyptian stability is if there is actually a major refugee influx, which would strain the state, and if the economic problems form a tipping point into a depression for the country.

            • queermunist she/her@lemmy.ml
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              1 year ago

              If Hamas surrenders the blockade can end and Gaza can have an economic future - if, that is, the people of Gaza put a group interested in building that future into power and not another group interested in genocidal conquest of Israel.

              That’s a bold lie. Gaza has never had an economic future, just like the West Bank. It’s been a doomed ghetto and the only future it has with Israel is complete resettlement.

              Also, cool racism.

              • Cleverdawny
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                1 year ago

                What fuckin racism? I don’t blame their race for the Gazans people having made stupid decisions as to who they should have as their government. Plenty of people of any race make stupid decisions - the Israelis elected Netanyahu, Americans elected Trump, for instance. Course, neither of those calamities compares to electing literal genocidal maniacs committed to a war of national suicide, but it’s hard to find something dumber than voting for Hamas.

                And there are plenty of small countries which do well economically. Gaza could be one of them, with leaders who cared about their populace as more than human shields and PR opportunities.

                • queermunist she/her@lemmy.ml
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                  1 year ago

                  You’re playing into the very classic anti-Arab racism of them all being stupid savages. They’re just backwards monsters that want to kill all the infidels, right?

                  You’re exactly who Israel is targeting when they make up shit about Hamas beheading 40 babies and raping women and girls. It’s pure racism.

                  And there are plenty of small countries which do well economically.

                  Israel controls all imports and exports so that’s literally impossible. Israel controls their fuel, their power, their water, their food, their medicine, everything. How are you this ignorant?

                  It’s not a country, it’s a concentration camp.

                  • Cleverdawny
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                    1 year ago

                    First of all, the population of Gaza after 1967 was appropriate to a highly populated urban area. It’s no one’s fault that the population has ballooned since then. Second, there’s no way to describe electing people determined to start a war with Israel by murdering civilians as anything other than barbarous and stupid.

                    Israel controls all imports and exports so that’s literally impossible.

                    Sure, they do. Because the entire place is run by Hamas.

                    I wonder what would happen if people who gave a shit were handed power by the people.

                    Backwards monsters who want to kill the infidels

                    There is no good faith way to describe Hamas otherwise. IDGAF what their race is. I don’t blame the German race or whatever for Nazis, but I do describe Nazism as a barbarous ideology and Nazis as bloodthirsty lunatics. The only thing separating Hamas from Nazis is a lack of both competence and the opportunity to make their conquests and find their victims.