• Kusimulkku
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    1 year ago

    Let’s pretend

    Pretend huh. Still not willing to admit it?

    • AFaithfulNihilist@lemmy.world
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      1 year ago

      How many soldiers does it take to change a location to a military target?

      Is it a percentage? Is it their presence at all?

      Ok, does that apply to Israeli hospitals or public venues that had soldiers there as guards?

      If the attack on those venues is terrorism by virtue of the civilians there, but not a legitimate military strike despite the soldiers being there, then at the very least, bombing hospitals and refugee camps is terrorism too even if a few soldiers and weapons are found.

      Executing human shields is monstrous, and “look what you made me do” is the language of abusers.

      • Kusimulkku
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        1 year ago

        Someone using something as a human shield makes it into a human shield. Requires just one.

        How many soldiers does it take to change a location to a military target?

        Could be as few as one. Which is why there’s zero tolerance for using such locations.

        Ok, does that apply to Israeli hospitals or public venues that had soldiers there as guards?

        It’s the same rule for everyone.

        If the attack on those venues is terrorism by virtue of the civilians there, but not a legitimate military strike despite the soldiers being there, then at the very least, bombing hospitals and refugee camps is terrorism too even if a few soldiers and weapons are found.

        There’s two related issues. Killing civilians and using civilian cover to conduct warfare. Both are despicable.

        Executing human shields is monstrous, and “look what you made me do” is the language of abusers.

        Right, though I’d put more blame on those, you know, using human shields. They’re the ones putting the humans between you and your enemy to begin with.

        • WaxedWookie@lemmy.world
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          1 year ago

          Given the demographics of those killed by Israel are squarely in line with the civilian population broadly (i.e. there’s no meaningful over-reprentation of Hamas, which we’d expect from purposeful targeted attacks against them), you’d apply your arguments consistently and defend Hamas attacking the IDF within Israel with similar civilian casualty rates (putting aside the whole national service, everyone is a combatant thing), right?

          …right?

          Thought not.

          • Kusimulkku
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            1 year ago

            Why would I defend either side killing civilians…?

    • dangblingus@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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      1 year ago

      Okay, so let’s SAY it’s real then.

      Shooting at human shields makes you worse. You have failed to rebut the post.

      • Kusimulkku
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        1 year ago

        Okay, so let’s SAY it’s real then.

        It is real.

        Shooting at human shields makes you worse. You have failed to rebut the post.

        Worse than person taking human shield to begin with, the one knowingly and purposefully putting people in danger by using them as human shields? Can’t say I agree.

    • masquenox@lemmy.world
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      1 year ago

      Maybe Israel should stop using music festival attendees as “human shields…” that would be nice.

      • Kusimulkku
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        1 year ago

        If they were operating behind the music festival then absolutely. Nobody should be using human shields.

          • Kusimulkku
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            1 year ago

            I was wondering why a link to BBC News didn’t have HTTPS. Well…

            Last Updated: Friday, 23 April, 2004, 11:24 GMT 12:24 UK

            Of course this has nothing to do with the music festival in particular but I’m guessing your point is more that they’ve at least at some point used (or “faced claims” about using) huma shields? I would’ve imagined we’d much more recent cases to make that point though.

        • masquenox@lemmy.world
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          1 year ago

          The IDf operates behind every civilian in Israel - which means every civilian in Israel is a “human shield” for the Israeli state.

          While we’re at it, we might just as well declare every 9/11 victim a US “human shield,” too.

          • Syndic@feddit.de
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            1 year ago

            While we’re at it, we might just as well declare every 9/11 victim a US “human shield,” too.

            Frankly, Bin Laden’s justification why killing US civilians was justified sounds very similar to justifications of hard line Israeli politicians why civilian getting killed in Gaza don’t deserve any sympathy and were “asking for it”. Both boil down to, “they voted for the people in charge who do crimes against us, so they are guilty as well.”

            • masquenox@lemmy.world
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              1 year ago

              It’s amazing how quickly contrived propaganda terms like “human shields” loses any meaning when they are flipped around on people western media hasn’t marked for genocide, eh?

          • Kusimulkku
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            1 year ago

            The IDf operates behind every civilian in Israel - which means every civilian in Israel is a “human shield” for the Israeli state.

            That’s an interesting take on it. I don’t think that’s how the idea of human shield is usually viewed. It’s usually more direct, operating from a place with civilians so you don’t get bombed or literally forcing someone to stand between you and your enemy or something.

            While we’re at it, we might just as well declare every 9/11 victim a US “human shield,” too.

            How exactly?

            • masquenox@lemmy.world
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              1 year ago

              That’s an interesting take on it. I don’t think that’s how the idea pure propaganda of human shield is usually viewed deployed for the consumption of Israeli-loving white supremacists.

              Fixed that for you.

              • Kusimulkku
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                1 year ago

                You don’t think Hamas has used human shields?

                • masquenox@lemmy.world
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                  1 year ago

                  Again… if that is what Hamas has (supposedly) done, then there is no reason not to designate every civilian in Israel, the US or any NATO member state as “human shields” as well.

                  Pick your propaganda and stop being a hypocrite about it.

                  • Kusimulkku
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                    1 year ago

                    I find it interesting that you can’t give a straight answer to whether you believe they’ve used human shields or not. I think it’s undeniable they’ve done that.

                    then there is no reason not to designate every civilian in Israel, the US or any NATO member state as “human shields” as well

                    I’m sorry but that doesn’t make sense. A human shield has an actual meaning, it’s not just all civilians in general.

                    Pick your propaganda and stop being a hypocrite about it.

                    Indeed. I’m pretty straightforward in that I condemn the use of human shields, full stop.

            • SCB@lemmy.world
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              1 year ago

              Because it’s just as disingenuous and disgusting to imply as what you’re implying.

              • Kusimulkku
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                1 year ago

                I’ll have to ask you to explain what you think I’m implying. You might’ve misunderstood me, since I don’t think I’ve said anything that could be taken for “disingenuous and disgusting”.

                  • Kusimulkku
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                    1 year ago

                    Yes, the meme is clearly trying to deny the use of human shields without having to say it. I was hoping OP or even you’d have balls to be honest about it, but that’s not happening.

                    I’m not a native speaker so you can chalk it up to that, so it’s not as embarrassing when I call you out on not having the balls to stand behind your convictions. I’m giving you an easy way out there, might as well take it.

            • TokenBoomer@lemmy.worldOP
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              1 year ago

              Take some self responsibility. Try to understand it yourself. Hint: Take away the top placard.