- cross-posted to:
- football@lemmy.world
- cross-posted to:
- football@lemmy.world
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Games gone soft
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too many games.
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not enough rotation because every player is expensive.
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players are getting more athletic so more forces put into the ground at higher speeds and shorter ground contact times.
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time off between seasons are way too short. pre seasons are way too short. 4 week preseason to go from sedentary to game speed is nowhere near enough.
not enough rotation because every player is expensive so you’re not going to rotate out your 100m man when every game is must win.
That is on the clubs. Top clubs have capacity to rotate but refuse to.
I see this repeated a lot but it’s not true in reality. Pep and Klopp rotate more than anyone. Having deep benches allow you to do that. Clubs with shallower benches are forced to play their best XI more often.
That is actually only partly true, city has one of the smaller squads - though oep rotates alot in his “17” outfield squad
Depth isn’t only a matter of numbers, it’s also a matter of quality.
This is a really important point that people often do not consider.
One thing is to rotate with a squad that is made up of players of lower quality than your starting XI, another thing is to rotate when you have a 100m player on the bench.
Sure you can choose to rotate to protect your players, but it’s perfectly understandable that coaches that are first and foremost judged by results are reluctant to do that if rotation means likely dropping more points during the season.
That I agree with, but remeber that quality also allows you to use players like akanji, rico, stephen very often
Jose whined about Europa being 2 days ahead of the Derby only to play most of his starters into the ground and refuse to sub anyone out, or give them rest. Proceeded to do absolutely nothing in either games
Do the players even have long enough of an offseason for them to really be considering “from sedentary” at the beginning of the pre-season? The players who are called up to offseason international tournaments definitely don’t.
Most of these make sense. While I think longer pre-seasons would be helpful, describing players as “sedentary” when they come into camp is not true at all. Players are on conditioning schedules during the break now. They may not come in at 100%, but they aren’t starting from anywhere near zero either.
I am also not sure teams are viewing players they need to spend millions acquiring as expendable, and probably are investing quite a bit in avoiding injuries as much as they can (while still running those players out as often as possible).
Oh yeah? Well I’m a genius and have a rebuttal for every single one of your points:
too many games.
They’re being paid lots of money to kick a ball, they should be happy they even get to play at all.
not enough rotation because every player is expensive so you’re not going to rotate out your 100m man when every game is must win.
Why should they be rotated when they earn 100m every week? My boss doesn’t rotate me at my office job.
players are getting more athletic so more forces put into the ground at higher speeds and shorter ground contact times.
They’re being paid to be fit? What’s the problem here?
time off between seasons are way too short. pre seasons are way too short. 4 week preseason to go from sedentary to game speed is nowhere near enough.
When my grandad worked the coal mines, do you think they cared if he had a break? These millionaire diva crybabies that I invest hundreds of hours watching every year need to think of the common person.
generally very mediocre strength and conditioning. which clubs can get away with because you can just buy a healthy player, buy a fast player etc instead of revamping your physical development systems
Maybe they can take the 200m they earn every week and spend it on a trainer that’s actually good at their job!
Makes me sick seeing all the defenders of these overpaid footballers. They get paid more than most will see in their lifetimes, clearly their bodies are different from the rest of ours.
time off between seasons are way too short. pre seasons are way too short. 4 week preseason to go from sedentary to game speed is nowhere near enough.
This point is so true. I follow some american sports and they get an incredible amount of time off compared to footballers. NFL, MLB and NBA get months off whereas footballers get 6-8 weeks at most. Less if there is an international tournament.
These points all apply to the seasons before. Why is it now a 15% increase? None of it is an explanation for that.
And I just say this: Why the fuck do these teams have a medical staff, when they aren’t able to to check player health and manage their load?
I don’t think strength and conditioning is mediocre in the premier league
You’d be surprised with what goes on at some clubs.
Can’t overlook winter World Cup’s impact, that last season just didn’t end add in how competitive pre-season is getting (tours are not hammering a couple of local J-league sides anymore, it’s Arsenal and Utd kicking lumps out of each other!), when is the break? When was pre-season?
Also something I’d add is it’s not just player price, some of the most overworked players are youth products. Look at how much football Gavi and Saka have played last couple years.
Final point is PL related but the number of points needed to win a league now with how competitive the league is all the way down makes rotating players out hard. Sure Man City can rotate between Grealish and Doku, but how many even big sides have a £100m player and a back up £70m player with both happy to be there?
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too many games innit
Not sure about that mate. The number of domestic games played has been the same for 25+ years now. 38 league games, usual number of FA cup and EFL cup games too. A full UCL campaign has also been 13 games for 25+ years too. The world cup has been the same length for 25yrs as well and the Euros has only been one game longer in recent years since 2016.
All these extra games that people think of like the new UCL league format, the club world cup and the 48 team world cup have not been implemented yet. There’s something else behind these injuries. It could be the increased intensity of the modern game or something else but blaming the number of games seems illogical because it hasn’t changed much.
Longer injury time and the game has become more physical. Now it’s normal for players to run 10-12 km, before it was only for specific roles. Even the speed increased.
So while the number of games didn’t increase yet, the playtime and intensity has. And if the number of games increases the situation will get even worse
Yeah I agree its probably because of the high physical intensity of the game these days. I’m not sure about the longer injury time tbh because that’s something that hasn’t even been around for a year but we’ve had increasing numbers of injuries for a couple years now.
It’s likely an issue of higher intensity plus something to do with the WC in Qatar last year. Norway didn’t qualify and Haaland was basically injury free all season which I thought was rare for him. Other players that played in both seemed way worse for the wear if they were playing 90-100 minutes in each WC match and late into the knockouts.
I personally lean towards the extra intensity. It’s an open secret that all the top level players/teams are using the blood doping and other tricks to increase oxygenation levels and recovery times. The tactics of the game such as constant high level pressing keep players running further and faster than in the past. If you watch old highlights from 20 years ago, the space players have in the midfield is unreal compared to the compactness and speed at which players are closed down today.
Or it is just nothing. Outliers happen.
Word for fucking word what I came to say
Nope
But I get to see football and that’s all that matters apparently
Video games
and for once it’s not us with the injury crisis. Not sure anything will be like 20/21 season
Don’t jinx it. You can lose 2 starters in the space of a few days for 3 months when on international duty…
Mate we already lost Robbo…
or lose 3 in a single game
Looks like Brentford might have done exactly that with Collins and Norgaard
Players don’t even get proper summer rests because the clubs are desperate to get them playing all across the globe for exposure during those time periods.
Too many games. Full stop.
Is that statistically significant?
This could definitely just be year-on-year variance. There could also be more sensitivity from the medical teams towards minor injuries.
This is one of those things that everyone looks at and attributes whatever they hate about the game as the cause. But we don’t have enough evidence to make definitive claims about causal relationships in regards to injuries.
Has VAR also played some role here? I can imagine having 1-2 minute pauses several times a game can make you cool off pretty quickly and your muscles become more injury prone. I believe that’s actually what happened to van de Ven in the Tottenham - Chelsea game for example
Van De Ven did not do his hamstring just because of a VAR pause. If the pauses were an issue you’d see it all the time in Rugby, which you don’t…
We’d also see the field become a casualty ward after half time in every game.
The level of premier league, cup and European games is relatively the same. However, the level of needless international friendliest, shoe-horned winter world cups and pointless nations league tournaments is ridiculous. Glad Harry Kane at least gets a winter break before the Euros.
I’m sorry how is a player playing for league and UCL in the same week different from playing in two international games in a week?
This argument is basically:
Players playing in games I like to watch is ok, players playing in games I don’t like to watch is bad.
So many teams pressing like a Klopp team…
I mean a sample of 5 is pretty small, but the UK had a lot more rain than average in September and October so maybe softer grounds make it more likely for players to lose control when they’re competing flat out. 🤷🏻
Too many games, high intensity football, lack of proper rotations
And its only going to get worse next year because of the new format for European competitions
Hogh intensity football is an underrated aspect imo. 5 sears ago most of the lesser teams would play low blocks and sit back. Today almost every team plays a high press but not all the players are built for it.
And 10 early 2000s small teams didn’t even play low blocks just generically bad football with a bit of defence, bit of attack no tactical fouls and big sides would play bottom half clubs in cruise control.
The game is better for smaller clubs being significantly more capable, it’s one change I wouldn’t want to undo at all, but something has to give and tournaments should not be expanding at all as a bare minimum. It’s getting worse not better
something has to give
I think 15% more things have given this year compared to previous years
Jurgen just loves a moan…
Liverpool don’t even have an injury problem this year compared to the rest. What are you on about?
his style of play is the main cause. high press, high intensity for 90+ minutes.
I mean do you really need both Nations league and Euro’s?
I’m sure when the Nations League was first announced UEFA said that it would eventually replace Euros qualifiers. Probably changed their minds in favour of more cash.
As an aside I hate how big the Euros has become. When I was a kid it was 16 teams representing most of the top 20 international teams in the world. Short tournament, high quality, good fun. Now it’s too diluted.
The euros was peak at 16. Almost no dead rubbers even in the groups, just a quality tournament all round.
16 team euros was brutal, 1 bad game in he group and you could be out
now it just has a ton of filler, which on one hand is nice for the smaller nations that wouldn’t get to compete otherwise, but it always means some low stakes games
Technically you could make them different, let’s say one in a classic format and one closer to current Champions’ League with League A being the main qualification route - it would still keep the challenge between low-rated teams while keeping the tournament finals in the other
Right now they are redundant, yeah
I casted a curse on them thats why…/s jesus fuck most of them play 60+ games a season. Thats why
I always find it interesting how people here always complain how nation team managers always play their best players for their qualification games (8-10 games spread over 2 years) and disregard how clubs don’t rotate the same players in over 50 games per year.
Barca had a god like teenager who played 72 games in one season for club and country… Since that season he has missed 40% of the games with injury…
Barca had a god like teenager who play 90% of the minutes for club and country. He recently tore in ACL and meniscus, in a low priority international match which nearly all other players were rotated.
The difference is that clubs cannot sign and register new players outside of the transfer window.
If the squad is riddled with injuries, the club will have to work with what they have until the transfer window reopens. In short, their choice and ability to rotate players are restricted to multiple constrains such as injuries, timing, money etc
The NT has none of these constrains (for the international break). They can call up whichever best and fit squad available. If they feel like player A is gassed or not in a good shape, they can easily call up player B before the break starts. They don’t have to sign player B for X amount of money, they just need to add him to the call up list. In short, NT can rotate players easier.
Also disregard how their club probably goes to the USA, back to England and finish in East-Asia in preseason, playing up to 8 full games in preseason.