Hi,
I know a company here in Japan that sells second-hand computers, cleaned, repaired, and with a 3 years warranty. Lots of the usual suspects (HP, Dell, Lenovo), from entry level office desktops to higher end Xeon workstations/servers. Prices vary, obviously.
As you know, these computers often do not use standard off-the-shelf parts, which can be a problem if the motherboard or PSU fails.
What’s your opinion about these computers? Is it worth the pain buying one (for a Linux or BSD based torrenting/seedbox machine, or build a NAS) or should I rather go another route – either build a PC with standard parts or buy a brand new cheap mini PC?
Thanks!
Just because they don’t sell their own motherboards separately doesn’t mean you can’t stick a compatible motherboard in there.
All PC parts, including OEM, follow well established standards and are easily replaceable.
Not entirely true. The big OEMs like HP and Dell often use non-standard motherboards and PSUs.
Worst case: you replace the case and PSU along with the motherboard.
You can use any old case from craigslist. I still use ATX cases from 2004.
This is incorrect and bad advice. A Dell or Lenovo business class motherboard will not bolt into an ATX case, nor connect to an ATX power supply.
Indeed, and even the case can be tricky. I think you sometimes have to drill the case if you want to install a standard motherboard.
Yes because they’re cheap.
My thoughts on buying a system with proprietary components…
Pros
- Buying typically is cheaper than building.
- Saves the effort of matching hardware when DIYing.
Cons
- Requires searching eBay (or other marketplace) for compatible proprietary hardware when a component fails.
- Some proprietary systems (looking at you hp) can be picky with some replacement components like RAM.
If they are cheap then they are ok to buy in my opinion but when you are paying around as much for one as you would for a equivalent computer with standard parts then it is no longer worth it.
It’s actually my main issue : finding the right point where the cost of a used computer is no longer competitive compared to buying new or building.
On a personal level, even though we’ll have to deal with currency exchange rate and cost of life etc., where would you put your limit?
While the cheapest office desktop bottoms out at about ¥12,000, the first server/workstation computers seem to start at about ¥40,000 (a Precision 5820 with a Xeon W-2102, 16GB of RAM, a 512GB SSD + 500GB HDD https://www.pcwrap.com/item/detail/1324009 )
Where to draw the line, I’m not sure…
Really kinda depends on your use case.
For instance, if I’m building an ESXi cluster, then yea HPE all the way. It’s quite trivial to find the option parts I need to complete the build and scour eBay for them. With those components tested and certified to work together I shouldn’t have to worry too much about weird issues popping up.
Now, on the other hand, when building a NAS / SAN, I don’t want to be locked into buying HPE branded disks so I opt for a Supermicro system. It doesn’t care what brand of disk you use so I’m free to buy what makes sense for the type of datastore I’m creating,
Supermicro is also one of the few who build their server platforms on standard ATX / EATX form factors, so it’s pretty easy to get the chassis you like and build the insides out however you like. Also makes upgrading the server internals super easy. Just buy a later gen components and transplant them. They’re very good about making documentation and compatibility matrices available online
as long as it’s a proper brand like HP or Dell you should be fine finding parts on ebay etc…
If anything dies here i completely strip every single removable part, and keep it sorted in boxes. a lot of this stuff comes handy in places and can be upcycled on next builds.
Cheap mini PCs have been my goto.
They are often powerful enough to get the job done, small, low power, quiet, and are easy to ship to sell if I want to upgrade. They may not be as reliable but I did the work on the software side to be able to easily replace or add new nodes.
Many of us use these in our labs. Dell servers, Cisco servers, etc. eBay, r/homelabsales and others are great resources for finding the “non-standard part”.
Any proprietary hardware its just suitable for r/AssholeDesign
100%
Proprietary parts is actual ewaste.
I wouldn’t build a NAS in one of these unless it’s like an older server or something. Mainly because these machines aren’t meant for always on use and usually won’t handle very well under random IO of something like ZFS. But if it’s something like a one off Linx box or seed box like you said where you don’t really care if it dies, that would be good. I know a lot of people in this sub also run a handful of these office machines for a Proxmox cluster or something like that where if one craps out, the others could take over
It really depends. I’ve seen PCs that use nonstandard parts just so you must use original parts, and systems which made use of new things like 12 volt only PSU really early and had great designs for easy access in a compact machine.
I try avoid, on server sometimes its not possible.
I like Supermicro because have some ATX form factor MB with standard connectors
If the price is right, and parts are easy to find while not being a rip off, they’re OK. You just have to ensure the machines don’t have design problems that will lead to quick failures such as poor thermal management.
If they meet your need at your price level there’s no problem. For years, my homelab consisted solely of Dell boxes from eBay and the dell refurb site.
I built the latest one myself since it was the cheaper way to get all the features I wanted in a single box.
Second-hand hardware gets cheaper with time. Repair worker’s labor doesn’t. So there is price point below which complete replacement is cheaper than repair.
labour price for homelab = 0$ :)
agreed for anything else then homelab
labour price for homelab = 0$ :)
That, methinks, is a common misconception. Every human action has a cost. At the very least, by doing something, you are prevented from doing something else (this is called “opportunity cost”).
