Got a non RT source, not that I doubt this, but libs will immediately go “RT is state backed” or whatever.
It doesn’t matter. The source of the claims is the Russian government. That automatically discredits it in the minds of liberals whether it’s Russian media, Chinese, Turkish, or French.
Especially since the entire west has been going suspiciously hard from day one on “this was ISIS-K, no one else, Ukraine is not involved” being repeatedly parroted with the subtext that any suggestion otherwise is Russian propaganda and excusing escalation towards Ukraine. Day two they were already accusing Putin of using the attack to justify an increased response to Ukraine and calling it crazy.
It’s unfalsifiable. If the Russians say it then they’re liars because they’re Russians and evil Putin is a dictator who maybe did it himself to get at Ukraine or something for some reason. If a western source says it they’re Russian agents, been duped by Russia, are doing Russia’s dirty work. There is no win here if you’re trapped in the liberal paradigm of the aggressor Russians and Putin as a modern Hitler.
The sources for the investigation into the money are not going to be something open source intelligence can discern, you’re not going to likely have reporters able to get access to trace money the way a government intelligence agency can so by its nature it’s what government do you trust.
All you can do is point to people with ISIS patches pictured in Ukraine. Can point to old stories about Turkey opening a corridor for fighters (including ISIS but not usually mentioned) to go from Syria to Ukraine to fight Russians. Can point to the inconsistencies in this attack’s methods of operation and past ISIS and islamic extremist tendencies and point to the Ukrainian regime’s history of targeting civilians in drone attacks even deep in Russia. All things liberals will brush aside and deny.
Big facts tbh
For an example of that, look at the lib comment below!
Some more interesting stuff:
“West protests too much about Kiev’s possible role in Moscow terror attack – Lavrov” https://www.rt.com/russia/595090-west-suspiciously-denying-ukraine-crocus/
The intensity of their insistence on Ukraine’s innocence is unusual, the Russian foreign minister has said
“The West is actively trying to convince everyone that this is the work of ISIS and there is no longer any need to suspect anyone, especially Ukraine,” Lavrov told Izvestiya in a video interview published on Friday. “They keep insisting that Kiev is not to blame, to the point where it’s becoming obsessive.”
“We have repeatedly said that we do not make any final conclusions until the investigation is completed. The investigation is still working on the facts, new circumstances are being revealed, but we simply do not have the right to exclude obvious possibilities,” the foreign minister said.
Meanwhile, Lavrov said, the West is “suspiciously active” in trying to persuade everyone that Ukraine had nothing to do with the attack.
I know where I am and I know this is going to net me a ban, but…
You guys really think the west wouldn’t be interested in discrediting the notion that Ukraine had to do with the terrorist attacks even if it was 100% unambiguously isis?
Saying “well the west protests too much I think” without evidence one way or the other is literally psyops propaganda built on speculation, designed to confirm a bias. Just like everything putins administration comments on.
Saying “well the west protests too much I think” without evidence one way or the other is literally psyops propaganda built on speculation, designed to confirm a bias. Just like everything putins administration comments on.
Yeah, despite me not being in 100% agreement with a lot of people in this sub, I have definitely had some academically honest and rewarding discourse in here, especially about macroeconomics.
That being said, I don’t really see the same level of reason being applied to this particular claim, and the amount of cyclical reasoning being validated in these comments is worrying.
Hypothetically If the US were monitoring the negotiation of the attackers and the priest what would they do? Your enemy is going to be attacked by a third party, do we warn them?
Well let’s say you don’t warn your adversary, they may just assume you did it, especially if they found proof you knew it was going to occur. Or they could just propagandize off of it, knowing well that you had nothing to do with it.
Let’s say you do warn them, they may brush you off, but hey that’s their choice, but it does give you the potential of possible deniability. Or they could listen, increase security and potentially hand you a minor moral victory.
Now let’s assume this was sponsored by the west.
What is the net gain or loss involved with warning your enemy of a potential attack? Well, if they are pretty much the same as what happened if they weren’t responsible, then I don’t really see how it really support a claim either way.
One way to look at it is to think of the behavior itself as a type of enemy.
Despite Russia being the West’s adversary, so is Terrorism, at least ostensibly.
It could be like “Yeah we’re Ukraine’s ally, but we don’t condone terrorism so we’re going to warn”.
Note I have no knowledge of the specifics of this event other than the absolutely highest-level “there was a terrorist attack in a moscow theater”. Just discussing the “game theory” of why someone like the US or France might warn Moscow of a terrorist attack even while in a proxy war with Russia.
I mean, maybe that’s naively idealistic of me, but it’s a way to reason about whether or not to support it.
That is something I thought of, but withheld because I didn’t want to seem biased, and I don’t really don’t hold a lot of good faith in US foreign diplomacy.
It does make sense considering it’s the only real geopolitical angle they’ve begrudgingly worked together with in the last decade or so.
maybe because it was clear very early on that the kremlin would try and pin this on ukraine
It’s really unfair of Russia to suggest Ukraine might have done a terrorist attack just because of all the other terrorist attacks Ukraine has been doing with CIA support for the last decade
Unsurprising unfortunately
How is it that they seem to be acting in such a way that Russia not only has nukes but the largest stockpile in the world.
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Oh noes, Ukraine did something mean to Russia. Why ever would they do that? What could poor innocent Russia have done to deserve to have Ukraine retaliate? Lol.
Stupid, like Israel wondering why Hamas hates them. You reap what you sow.
It’s a real shame that Russia makes the entirety of Ukraine into an open air prison where they don’t even have basic freedoms like praising Hitler or ethnically cleansing Russians
what a childish way to look at it lol
Russia claims they received cryptocurrency.
Okay, so which currency and which transactions? Crypto has a public ledger, so it should be easily verifiable if these transactions happened.
But obviously, such evidence has not been provided.
Even the claim that they were fleeing to Ukraine is dubious, as a “hero’s welcome” would not fall well with the western public (eroding the support they need is not a winning strategy), and the road they were supposedly arrested on leads to Belarus, not Ukraine.
The Russian narrative does not logically add up, and there’s no actual evidence at all. Meanwhile, the west preemptively warned the FSB that an attack was imminent (which you wouldn’t do if you want the attack to succeed) and named the group behind it, which was backed by evidence (as said group published videos that only they could have taken).
Please keep an open mind. Ask yourself “which is more likely” and make sure the claims you believe are backed with evidence.
Okay, so which currency and which transactions? Crypto has a public ledger, so it should be easily verifiable if these transactions happened.
I’m not sure what you mean by this? Crypto is used specifically because it is difficult to trace transactions, so I doubt there is a clear public record of the transactions, it wouldn’t be used for the vast majority of drug sales if it were so easily traceable.
The difficulty comes from figuring out who owns which address/wallet. But transactions are entirely public.
See https://help.coinbase.com/en/coinbase/getting-started/crypto-education/what-is-the-bitcoin-blockchain for a simple explanation. Anyone can trace any bitcoin/cryptocoin or whatever from address to address. But that doesn’t tell you who owns the addresses (which is where the drug users come in).
Once you figure out who owns specific address, you can trace every one of their transactions. It’s part of crypto being a public, decentralised network.
That sounds…completely the opposite of the bullshit of what I’ve heard from cryptobros lol. But thanks for the info, though I’m still not sure how crypto can be used to smuggle drugs if it is all as public as this article claims it is.
It’s public but if your country doesn’t regulate cryptocurrencies heavily, you might be able to use it to anonymously move money. Sure it’s public, but you don’t know who 0xdeadbeef2537494946 is
Imma gonna go ahead and call bullshit on this one…
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True, when digesting information we must adhere to a rational and emotion-free mindset, or we will be tricked by the interest who hires the best propagandists.
The claims that Ukraine has planned and financed this horrid attack, the claims Putin himself introduced, hasn’t been verified at all and the Kremlin hasn’t been able to produce a shred of evidence.
A transparent and open dialogue showing the world this alleged evidence would probably shift public opinion, maybe not in supporting Russias claim on a sovereign state but perhaps making other states think twice in supporting Ukraine.
And as to supporting my opinion, I have tried to wade through all the bullshit that everyone is peddling, be it CNN, BBC, NPR, Al Jazera or RT and what everyone seems to agree on is that it is ISIS-K and they were pretty effin’ quick to take on responsibility.
You are what you hate about reddit
Nah, I liked the content that I subscribed to… mostly open source news and porn… what I wasn’t fond of was the hijinks they pulled regarding their API and 3rd party app development.
😂 exactly lib
Oh holy crap… you didn’t waste any ammo there did you now champ…
Just find your lack of introspection funny bud
What’s wrong with open source? Or are you referring to my porn consumption?
r/lostredditors
Yeah, you are probably right… looking around everyone seems pretty much lost.
Naturally there’s a fog of war on any breaking news, but give it a few months look back and see if the information was correct or not. If it was a lie, than congratulations you get to feel good about yourself. If it turned out to actually be true, then it’s time to work on your media literacy.
It’s not reasonable to expect people to look into stuff they do agree with, but for something they don’t? That’s an easy first step.
Yeah, I am not gonna feel good about myself either way because it’s a horrible attack on innocent civilians… what I am calling bullshit on is that a state sponsored TV station pushes unverified shit that plays right into the hands of an imperialistic state that started a war totally unprovoked.
war totally unprovoked.
Yet another person who believes it all started in 2022.
Been getting some mileage out of this quote lately lmao
No, I am fully aware that this war has been raging for a decade… but the annexation of Crimea was as unprovoked as anything else that Putin has done. It’s just that when you 8 years later start to move the goalpost to include “Military Special Operations” and not calling it what it was from the start… well then you got some ‘splainin to do.
I’m guessing you prefer mainstream sources so please look up Chomsky and Mearsheimer for the 'splaining you so crave.
I would rather have the one that presents the claims also back them with verifiable evidence, is that to much of an ask? That is how the scientific method usually works and I can’t see why we can’t apply it in this case.
Yes and that’s exactly why you got smacked with that Mao quote. Go learn instead of regurgitating propaganda the mainstream media feeds you, we’ve heard it all a thousand times.
I mean. If your debilitating porn addiction leaves you with any spare time of course. We’ve all got our priorities.
Every time I read a fucking comment like this I get whiplash when I realize you aren’t talking about the USA here, lmao.
Oh I feel you… they have made some epic fuckups and the current one unfolding in regards to the conflict I Gaza is really… ‘effed up. But I can hold two thoughts in my head… even though I’m a libturd.
Why would ukrainian involvement suprise you? They are at war, stuff like this tends to happen. Do you think the entirety of the ukrainian military is morally flawless?
On the contrary, I am a firm believer that war can’t be fought without one bending and bashing one’s morals… with that said, they never asked for this and I am not defending a heinous act of attacking innocent civilians, just the peddling of unverified crap.
True, but this post is just an image drawn in a silly style. Hard to take it seriously.
I have no reason to doubt the validity, but as of writing this I also have no reason to believe it. It would be nice to see something from AP, NPR, or something like that.
I admit I have not looked.
Ah yes, the famously non-ideological and trustworthy AP and NPR.
I notice you provide critique but no alternative. Could you name better sources? Ones which adhere to highest journalistic standards? It would benefit us all and have the added affect of proliferating better information.
In addition, could you elaborate on which journalistic standards do you find AP and NPR to be lacking? I welcome critique of anything that I support, because through critique and discussion is how one finds what stands up under scrutiny. So please, apply your critiques freely. If my trust is misplaced, I will change my view.
The criticism is that the AP and NPR even more platently are not Journalism but blatant propaganda. They do not care about the Crtique as they just shout at it and hope it hides
Can you show me an example of a propaganda article? I haven’t heard anyone share this type of opinion about either source before so I’m definitely curious what I have been missing. I usually browse either website for updates on what’s going on in the world.
But I’d definitely change my view if you can show me a few examples of propaganda articles. I feel like I’m missing something but open to learning.
You’re not getting it are you?
Every piece of news that comes out of the West is propaganda. Propaganda so you keep believing that capitalism is good, the West is good, to the point you can’t even tell what is or isn’t propaganda.
The fact of the matter is, they are gonna want you to maintain these thoughts about Russia being bad, they just “invaded unprovoked”, because if people discover that they’ve been lied to this entire time they’d be pissed off and never believe anything they had to say again.
Well. The sensible ones.
I don’t need to provide an alternative to point out that something is bad. I don’t need to follow the hyper-liberal norms and practices that you’re so fond of on sites like reddit, it simply is not a requirement.
It’s a strange twist of logic you have that no one can have an viewpoint counter to yours without providing you an alternative to your liking. Grow the fuck up and learn how to be critical of news sources, or at least how to find sources critical of them. If you’re so good at reading and research and understanding it really should not be an obstacle for you.
You come into this thread high and mighty about your (self-perceived) knowledge and wisdom only to spout ignorant nonesense in reply after reply and then cry when people call you out on it. Intellectually, you are a coward; emotionally, you are a child.
Here’s my counter tl;dr for your reddit-brain: Get fucked.
Lol you have no reason to believe it because the very news sources you want have done nothing but toe the US government’s line of supporting Ukraine, everything is fine in Ukraine, Russia bad (Russia has been bad since the goddamn 90s after the USSR fell), everything Russia says is a lie and should never be believed.
I admit I have not looked.
