University of Southern California, Harvard University, University of Texas at Austin and Columbia University all had student riots on Wednesday, as anti-Israel hostility on college campuses grows.
Yes. The fire bombings on world war II were absolutely collective punishment.
Collective punishment is a punishment or sanction imposed on a group for acts allegedly perpetrated by a member of that group, which could be an ethnic or political group, or just the family, friends and neighbors of the perpetrator.
From the wiki you just linked. Can we agree that there are people who live in Gaza, who do not support Hamas, and who are not actively involved in the fighting? You’ve just said they have to convince Hamas to stop fighting before things can be " over "?
You’re making uninvolved people, responsible for the actions of others. That fits the definition from Wikipedia that you just link to.
All right let’s go through a thought experiment: You’re a 16-year-old girl, you just had a baby. The father is dead. You want to leave the fighting zone. You’re not allowed to leave. How do you affect collective action, and change the government? The government which last had an election before you were born
The fact that you and your baby cannot overthrow Hamas, is that enough reason for you to die?
I think that’s a catch-22. If you organize a protest and you get into a group. You’re very likely to be bombed.
We are saying a member of this collective, is responsible for the behavior of other members of that collective. And until they fix the collective behavior, they cannot leave the kill box. That’s unethical, that’s immoral, that’s collective punishment
I’m advocating that Israel should allow refugees to leave the combat area. I’m saying no children should die in strategic bombing. There isn’t a Hamas armored core resisting the Israeli Air Force. There was total military domination of both the skies and the land. This is asymmetric occupation.
Just so we’re clear, if your goal is to end Hamas. But you don’t want to actually do the police work on the ground. The best scenario is to create a land bridge between the West Bank and Palestine and allow the Palestinian authority to send troops, facilitators, bureaucrats, into Gaza.
And in our scenario the 16-year-old girl with the baby and Dead family, she has spent years attacking her neighbors? And she must suffer for it? This is the disconnect we’re not agreeing on.
They cannot leave. It’s literally a closed prison.
@wintermute_oregon Okay to be fair, I in general support #Israel but the siege on #Gaza at the very least constitutes as collective punishment to some degree, intentional or unintentional as it might have been.
Yes. The fire bombings on world war II were absolutely collective punishment.
From the wiki you just linked. Can we agree that there are people who live in Gaza, who do not support Hamas, and who are not actively involved in the fighting? You’ve just said they have to convince Hamas to stop fighting before things can be " over "?
You’re making uninvolved people, responsible for the actions of others. That fits the definition from Wikipedia that you just link to.
No, they were attacking military tagets. They are not collective punishment.
They are not uninvolved. That is their government that started the fight.
I have very little empathy for the Palestinians. When they brought the hostages back, nobody stood up for them. Nobody tried to save any of them.
All right let’s go through a thought experiment: You’re a 16-year-old girl, you just had a baby. The father is dead. You want to leave the fighting zone. You’re not allowed to leave. How do you affect collective action, and change the government? The government which last had an election before you were born
The fact that you and your baby cannot overthrow Hamas, is that enough reason for you to die?
You protest with likeminded people.
I think that’s a catch-22. If you organize a protest and you get into a group. You’re very likely to be bombed.
We are saying a member of this collective, is responsible for the behavior of other members of that collective. And until they fix the collective behavior, they cannot leave the kill box. That’s unethical, that’s immoral, that’s collective punishment
It’s not. Fighting a war to defend yourself isn’t collective punishment.
You seem to be advocating that Israel should just let Hamas launch rockets and kill their civilians. I think that’s a horrible take on things.
I’m advocating that Israel should allow refugees to leave the combat area. I’m saying no children should die in strategic bombing. There isn’t a Hamas armored core resisting the Israeli Air Force. There was total military domination of both the skies and the land. This is asymmetric occupation.
Just so we’re clear, if your goal is to end Hamas. But you don’t want to actually do the police work on the ground. The best scenario is to create a land bridge between the West Bank and Palestine and allow the Palestinian authority to send troops, facilitators, bureaucrats, into Gaza.
They can leave. They just can’t go into Israel and Egypt doesn’t want them.
Who has said they would take the refugees? Nobody.
When you spend years attacking your neighbors and supporting terrorism, you find yourself with limited options.
And in our scenario the 16-year-old girl with the baby and Dead family, she has spent years attacking her neighbors? And she must suffer for it? This is the disconnect we’re not agreeing on.
They cannot leave. It’s literally a closed prison.
@wintermute_oregon Okay to be fair, I in general support #Israel but the siege on #Gaza at the very least constitutes as collective punishment to some degree, intentional or unintentional as it might have been.
I agree the water, food and medical care are potentially collective punishment and at least against the rules of war.
The assault is not.
I’m not pleased Israel hasn’t done more to provide food, water and medical care.