The history around Gaza and Israel is long and super complicated. The “they hit me first” gets really fucking dumb after like 10 rounds. That’s why most people in the west don’t support the war, they support leaving people alone. Either the gazans or the Israelites.
War is the ultimate singularity. It’s a black hole that sucks up everyone and everything and there’s literally no positive to it. So if you have a say in it, the only way to cause less tragedy is to stop it.
On that note, fuck the Hamas for attacking Israel at the festival, and fuck Israel for escalating this into another war.
Hamas is a branch of the Muslim Brotherhood. It wasn’t “invented” by Israel.
And Israel didn’t fund them, but it’s true that Bibi let Qatar money reach Hamas when he could’ve blocked it.
The belief among some of the ones who supported that, was that better conditions of life in Gaza would prevent them from going to another war - An article about it from 2015
Mhhh yes which is why israel systematically blocks aid from entering Gaza and the humanitarian catastrophe and restrictions on aid only got worse over the years. Surely israel tried to help Gaza by instead of letting in food, give money to Hamas. this makes perfect sense now.
Hamas was the government of Gaza. You couldn’t get anything in there without it getting through Hamas anyway.
They sure managed to get a lot of weapons and rockets in there, and enough building materials for massive underground tunnels.
And your dear Al-Jazeera has an article from 2017 that says Qatari money actually did help Gaza Analysts: Qatar supports Gaza not Hamas
Are they also Zionist propaganda now?
Well goddammit, we’ve got a genuine freedom fighter here in our midst, waging war against the (wink wink nudge nudge) ZIONISTS. Are you a member of the legendary 104th Battalion, the Keyboard Snipers? Or are you part of that new 88th Battalion, the Fighting Dogwhistle Luftwaffles, deploying out of your parents basement?
It’s… not that long or complicated. Palestinians were there during the latter Ottoman Empire. The Israeli state is a project conceived after WW2 which, since its inception, has been illegally settling in land where Palestinian people already lived, and forcefully displacing them. You may not like what Hamas does, but like, what do you expect when you kick people out of the land they inhabit, a pat in the back or some resistance?
Jews have lived in a very complex diaspora for millennia. There hasn’t at any point been an exclusively Jewish state in the Levant, let alone in the past 500 years. The claim is baseless, especially when it comes to settling lands already inhabited by Semitic people who also belong there, who Israel has been forcibly removing or outright murdering for more than half a century.
You say “illegally settling” but I think that might be a little reductive, no?
The reason it happened after WW2 is because the entire rest of the world was like, "displaced Jews? Not in my country! Ship them off to the middle east where they came from!!”
It’s not really Israel’s fault that happened. Most of the people sent there were literally given no other option.
No, it’s not reductive. Being a targeted minority doesn’t automatically grant you the right to kick people out of their homes in a given arbitraty region at gunpoint.
the entire rest of the world was like, "displaced Jews? Not in my country!
Not really, the communist block was rather accepting of Jewish people. There were plenty of pogroms in tsarist Russia which stopped happening in the USSR, and there was even an Autonomous Jewish Oblast in the USSR at the time.
It is Israel’s fault that this happened, the whole idea of the country basically since its Inception was that of a Jewish ethnostate, which implied kicking people out of their homes, and the state became expansionist so it started illegally and violently colonising land that was already inhabited. The fact that Jewish people have been oppressed for millennia is a fact, but that doesn’t change the fact that the very conception of the modern state of Israel is flawed from the very beginning. And I mostly don’t blame Israeli citizens themselves, since I guess for the most part they were people looking for a place free of oppression, but the modern state of Israel means less oppression for them at the expense of extreme oppression towards native locals, which is absolutely wrong.
There was a jewish state there when the romans invaded over 2000 years ago. Look it up, their state was called judea and the romans named it (something similar to palestine) after conquest finished.
Yes but you can’t claim ownership of a territory that is currently inhabited by people who didn’t expell you themselves or their immediate ancestors, based on a 2000 year old historical claim.
No it doesn’t, the Jewish people 2000 years ago weren’t a state, weren’t the only people in the region, and there’s no continuity. The claim is ridiculous
Not as a state, no, my point here isn’t arguing for the recognition of Palestine as a state, it’s arguing against the forceful and violent removal of a local population. Whichever nation the locals belong to is a matter of self-determination, not up to me to decide.
There were multiple Jewish kingdoms, not one unified state that the modern day nation state can claim it’s descended from. The kingdom of judea is pretty small compared to the modern borders.
Never mind that trying to claim that isreal is the continuation of a 2000 year old kingdom with nothing in between, is a pretty brain dead argument.
Which is why I didn’t make that argument. Learn to read. The same can be said about palestine too btw, both have a history mixed of existance and non-existance.
Native jews, christians and muslims in historic Palestine only need to point to the fact their parents or grandparents lived on a specific bit of land, while Zionists need to point to a state thats been dead for 2000 years.
Bringing up Judea in respomse to OP who never mentioned any other historical state kinda does implicitly make that argument.
Also your reponse to volodya about how you’re trying to counter the “israel came into existence 70 years ago bs” despite the fact modern day isreal did only come into existence 70 years ago and is completely detached from biblical israel or any historical Jewish state reeks of Zionism.
The history around Gaza and Israel is long and super complicated. The “they hit me first” gets really fucking dumb after like 10 rounds. That’s why most people in the west don’t support the war, they support leaving people alone. Either the gazans or the Israelites.
War is the ultimate singularity. It’s a black hole that sucks up everyone and everything and there’s literally no positive to it. So if you have a say in it, the only way to cause less tragedy is to stop it.
On that note, fuck the Hamas for attacking Israel at the festival, and fuck Israel for escalating this into another war.
I mean, Isreal invented and funded hamas and gave them weapons. So fuck israel.
Hamas is a branch of the Muslim Brotherhood. It wasn’t “invented” by Israel. And Israel didn’t fund them, but it’s true that Bibi let Qatar money reach Hamas when he could’ve blocked it.
The belief among some of the ones who supported that, was that better conditions of life in Gaza would prevent them from going to another war - An article about it from 2015
Mhhh yes which is why israel systematically blocks aid from entering Gaza and the humanitarian catastrophe and restrictions on aid only got worse over the years. Surely israel tried to help Gaza by instead of letting in food, give money to Hamas. this makes perfect sense now.
NPR is straight up Zionist propaganda.
Hamas was the government of Gaza. You couldn’t get anything in there without it getting through Hamas anyway.
They sure managed to get a lot of weapons and rockets in there, and enough building materials for massive underground tunnels.
And your dear Al-Jazeera has an article from 2017 that says Qatari money actually did help Gaza Analysts: Qatar supports Gaza not Hamas
Are they also Zionist propaganda now?
Yes which why it is obvious the blockade on Gaza was only using the blocking of “smuggled weapons” as an excuse to starve civilians.
You are destroying your own argument.
Your Qatar link is irrelevant. Of course Qatar supports Gaza. However Netanyahu asked Qatar to give cash to Hamas.
Well goddammit, we’ve got a genuine freedom fighter here in our midst, waging war against the (wink wink nudge nudge) ZIONISTS. Are you a member of the legendary 104th Battalion, the Keyboard Snipers? Or are you part of that new 88th Battalion, the Fighting Dogwhistle Luftwaffles, deploying out of your parents basement?
Look at that a Genocide defender saying that criticism of israel is antisemitic.
Circle of hatred.
No matter if it is about a relationship, two political parties or countries. You can only brake out of it,if you commit to not go for the “revenge”.
It’s… not that long or complicated. Palestinians were there during the latter Ottoman Empire. The Israeli state is a project conceived after WW2 which, since its inception, has been illegally settling in land where Palestinian people already lived, and forcefully displacing them. You may not like what Hamas does, but like, what do you expect when you kick people out of the land they inhabit, a pat in the back or some resistance?
Jews also lived in that area. For millenia. And they had been driven out before.
Jews have lived in a very complex diaspora for millennia. There hasn’t at any point been an exclusively Jewish state in the Levant, let alone in the past 500 years. The claim is baseless, especially when it comes to settling lands already inhabited by Semitic people who also belong there, who Israel has been forcibly removing or outright murdering for more than half a century.
You say “illegally settling” but I think that might be a little reductive, no?
The reason it happened after WW2 is because the entire rest of the world was like, "displaced Jews? Not in my country! Ship them off to the middle east where they came from!!”
It’s not really Israel’s fault that happened. Most of the people sent there were literally given no other option.
No, it’s not reductive. Being a targeted minority doesn’t automatically grant you the right to kick people out of their homes in a given arbitraty region at gunpoint.
Not really, the communist block was rather accepting of Jewish people. There were plenty of pogroms in tsarist Russia which stopped happening in the USSR, and there was even an Autonomous Jewish Oblast in the USSR at the time.
It is Israel’s fault that this happened, the whole idea of the country basically since its Inception was that of a Jewish ethnostate, which implied kicking people out of their homes, and the state became expansionist so it started illegally and violently colonising land that was already inhabited. The fact that Jewish people have been oppressed for millennia is a fact, but that doesn’t change the fact that the very conception of the modern state of Israel is flawed from the very beginning. And I mostly don’t blame Israeli citizens themselves, since I guess for the most part they were people looking for a place free of oppression, but the modern state of Israel means less oppression for them at the expense of extreme oppression towards native locals, which is absolutely wrong.
There was a jewish state there when the romans invaded over 2000 years ago. Look it up, their state was called judea and the romans named it (something similar to palestine) after conquest finished.
Yes but you can’t claim ownership of a territory that is currently inhabited by people who didn’t expell you themselves or their immediate ancestors, based on a 2000 year old historical claim.
But it does counteract the ‘isreal came into existance 70 years ago’ BS
No it doesn’t, the Jewish people 2000 years ago weren’t a state, weren’t the only people in the region, and there’s no continuity. The claim is ridiculous
So what? Palestine wasn’t in continous existance either.
Not as a state, no, my point here isn’t arguing for the recognition of Palestine as a state, it’s arguing against the forceful and violent removal of a local population. Whichever nation the locals belong to is a matter of self-determination, not up to me to decide.
Nobody here was arguing for the forceful removal of the local population.
There were multiple Jewish kingdoms, not one unified state that the modern day nation state can claim it’s descended from. The kingdom of judea is pretty small compared to the modern borders.
Never mind that trying to claim that isreal is the continuation of a 2000 year old kingdom with nothing in between, is a pretty brain dead argument.
Which is why I didn’t make that argument. Learn to read. The same can be said about palestine too btw, both have a history mixed of existance and non-existance.
Native jews, christians and muslims in historic Palestine only need to point to the fact their parents or grandparents lived on a specific bit of land, while Zionists need to point to a state thats been dead for 2000 years.
Bringing up Judea in respomse to OP who never mentioned any other historical state kinda does implicitly make that argument.
Also your reponse to volodya about how you’re trying to counter the “israel came into existence 70 years ago bs” despite the fact modern day isreal did only come into existence 70 years ago and is completely detached from biblical israel or any historical Jewish state reeks of Zionism.
It’s not that long and it’s not that complicated, the pro Israel crowd likes to throw this notion around as a thought-terminating cliche.
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Death to war. Life to all children of the Levant.