Miss all on accounts my man. I’m Polish and we know full well what it means to live under Russian rule. We remember September 1939 backstab and 1944-45 campaign of bringing freedom by Soviets. My family on all imaginable sides has suffered significant loss from those. Time passes but Russian soldiers somehow behave the same, as proven by the current conflict. So maybe there’s more to it than just “armed conscripts”, I don’t know what it is exactly, but I do fully associate that with Russians. Feel free to call me racist for that, comes out fairly funny given Poles and Russians are Slavs.
Oh and conscripts you say? Didn’t Russians claim it’s fully professional army back then? So maybe it’s a matter of training. I also don’t think what happened at Bucha can be attributed to actions of a few rogue conscripts, it had to come from a higher level of command.
Time passes but Russian soldiers somehow behave the same, as proven by the current conflict. So maybe there’s more to it than just “armed conscripts”, I don’t know what it is exactly, but I do fully associate that with Russians. Feel free to call me racist for that
Ok, you’re a racist.
I and others have responded in good faith and with actual information elsewhere in this thread, but having read this and some of your other comments we probably shouldn’t have bothered. You lack any real understanding of any aspect of this conflict and you’re clearly not open to learning anything because your thinking is clearly clouded by bigotry against a specific people. Until you move past that prejudice you’re never going to open to anything that might counter it. I hope you do eventually, and not just for the sake of understanding this conflict.
Would you have preferred that Poland exist under indefinite Nazi occupation? If Poland is the best route from one to the other and the Nazis have an existential enemy in the Soviets, the military is going to cross over one way or another. Speaking not for the state of Poland (fuck them, those Holocaust collaborators) but for the people (minorities particularly), it is much better to get at least some insulation from the Nazi genocide via the Soviet occupation rather than, what? Another year or two before the Nazis invade and this time take over the entire country with zero state effort to protect vulnerable populations first and much less hope of the Soviets ultimately defeating them? It just doesn’t make sense to me.
Insulation from Nazi genocide, as if hundreds of thousands of Poles were not sent to Syberia and Katyń didn’t happen. As if Soviets didn’t collaborate with Nazis forming the Ribbentrop - Molotov pact. Soviets are perpetrators of WW2 in the same way Nazis are. It’s just Stalin got backstabbed by Hitler the same way he stabbed Poland in the back in 1939.
I also wonder what exactly do you mean by Polish state being Holocaust collaborators? You do realize there was no Polish state under Nazi / Soviet occupation, except for the London one? How could it have collaborated in Holocaust?
People were right though, hexbear is just a Russian propaganda tube. I don’t know if you people are paid to do this subhuman work or are you really believe in this alt history bullshit you’re spreading, I feel sorry for you one way or the other.
As if Soviets didn’t collaborate with Nazis forming the Ribbentrop - Molotov pact.
The pact was the correct move after the western powers (and Poland, afaik) refused to more proactively join the Soviets in crushing the Nazis. The Soviets could not defeat the Nazis without being able to actually reach them on land and the Soviets could not defeat the Nazis if war started then and they were alone (as the western powers hoped would happen). Given the western powers not taking the Nazi threat seriously and the geopolitical implications of that, the pact was entirely correct.
It’s just Stalin got backstabbed by Hitler the same way he stabbed Poland in the back in 1939.
Stalin identified (what I’ve usually seen translated as) “Hitlerism” as the immediate mortal enemy of the Soviets since well before the pact. Incidentally, Hitler also publically identified the Soviets as mortal enemies of the Nazis, making all sorts of accusations about “Judeo-Bolshevism”. These two governments were not allies and it’s an abomination of historical revision to characterize it as such.
Stalin expected Hitler to violate the pact eventually, since the Soviets gained tremendous advantage from stalling and developing their semi-feudal infrastructure into something more modern. He did not, however, expect the Nazis to invade as soon as they did, was caught very unprepared, and suffered horrible losses both of soldiers and civilians (in Poland and the USSR proper) as a result. That last part is something that should be criticized, but you cannot criticize his actual errors coherently in the fantasy framework of him and Hitler being teammates.
I also wonder what exactly do you mean by Polish state being Holocaust collaborators? You do realize there was no Polish state under Nazi / Soviet occupation, except for the London one? How could it have collaborated in Holocaust?
It’s illegal in Poland to make claims like this, so it would not surprise me if you aren’t very familiar, but on a municipal level there absolutely was collaboration between existing Polish government officials and the Nazis.
People were right though, hexbear is just a Russian propaganda tube. I don’t know if you people are paid to do this subhuman work or are you really believe in this alt history bullshit you’re spreading, I feel sorry for you one way or the other.
If my quotes denote sections (with this being the fourth), then the first section of this comment (that the pact was correct) is a claim that isn’t very popular in western historiography but definitely is present. The second and third sections (Stalin and Hitler were always enemies, that the Polish government collaborated in the Holocaust) are the standard position in western historiography even though the Stalin/Hitler one gets distorted in pop history. In countries like Poland and Ukraine, these positions are much less common in part because of reactionary campaigns by those governments to revise history in the direction of Holocaust denial (see section three of my comment and Banderites in Ukraine, respectively).
Nothing I’ve said here is in the realm of a crank opinion to mainstream western historians. I can expand on the western powers not being interested in stopping the Nazis until it became a direct need for their own survival, but it felt like too much of a tangent.
Poland literally refused to ally with the Soviets, did imperialism by trying to restore the PLC during the 1920 war, prevented the soviets from aiding german & Hungarian communists, betrayed Czechoslovakia by seizing territory in accord with hitler and did an aforementioned non-aggression pact with the funni mustache guy. Poland literally did everything it could to alienate itself from allies and torpedo its own country. Poles still try to desperately become the next member of the cracker country club and which always will/has ended in their OWN country being destroyed.
Miss all on accounts my man. I’m Polish blah blah blah les Russian skull shapes WW2 Poland sad backstory blah more muh Russia subhuman le bad blah blah blah ‘muh bad apples apologia’ strawman blah blah I can parrot more racist western propaganda against Russians and still be right because same phenotype blah blah Russian superiors all genocidal bcuz trust me bro I’m racist blah
Your opinion was already rejected at “I’m Polish” lmao fucking fascist “no LGBT zones” having theocracy ass motherfucker
Again you admit to your ridiculous view of the Russian people hinging on you being a massive racist piece of shit. This conveniently feeds into being a warmonger who wants to see more innocent people suffer and die for NATO weapons testing because “Russia ork le bad”. If you weren’t blatantly making up the things you said about your grandparents you are a bloody disgrace to their suffering and have learned nothing from their terrible experiences with war. Fuck off back to whatever right wing hellsite you came here from you murderous bastard.
You believe it when your media scapegoats Russia as le bad instead of your billionaires, think anyone who disagrees with you is a Russian bot, and believe that Russians are subhumans but that’s not racist because trust me bro fr?
And all this somehow doesn’t make you a right winger?
You’re a fine fucking specimen mate.
Yeah, exactly, Russia ork Le bad, couldn’t have said that better myself, thanks!
LMFAO ofc you couldn’t, its your entire ideology dumbass!
My man do you seriously think Russia is paying this dude to post pig poop balls on an obscure image board full of people who already hate the west? That’s not a rhetorical question - I’ve been investigating him for a while and I think that’s exactly what Russia is doing. They’re paying the members here to spread disinformation to one another, increasing the total amount of disinformation available to web crawlers. It’s disgusting.
Edit: if you’re serious, PM me. I’ve got more proof where this comes from.
Miss all on accounts my man. I’m Polish and we know full well what it means to live under Russian rule. We remember September 1939 backstab and 1944-45 campaign of bringing freedom by Soviets. My family on all imaginable sides has suffered significant loss from those. Time passes but Russian soldiers somehow behave the same, as proven by the current conflict. So maybe there’s more to it than just “armed conscripts”, I don’t know what it is exactly, but I do fully associate that with Russians. Feel free to call me racist for that, comes out fairly funny given Poles and Russians are Slavs.
Oh and conscripts you say? Didn’t Russians claim it’s fully professional army back then? So maybe it’s a matter of training. I also don’t think what happened at Bucha can be attributed to actions of a few rogue conscripts, it had to come from a higher level of command.
Ok, you’re a racist.
I and others have responded in good faith and with actual information elsewhere in this thread, but having read this and some of your other comments we probably shouldn’t have bothered. You lack any real understanding of any aspect of this conflict and you’re clearly not open to learning anything because your thinking is clearly clouded by bigotry against a specific people. Until you move past that prejudice you’re never going to open to anything that might counter it. I hope you do eventually, and not just for the sake of understanding this conflict.
Would you have preferred that Poland exist under indefinite Nazi occupation? If Poland is the best route from one to the other and the Nazis have an existential enemy in the Soviets, the military is going to cross over one way or another. Speaking not for the state of Poland (fuck them, those Holocaust collaborators) but for the people (minorities particularly), it is much better to get at least some insulation from the Nazi genocide via the Soviet occupation rather than, what? Another year or two before the Nazis invade and this time take over the entire country with zero state effort to protect vulnerable populations first and much less hope of the Soviets ultimately defeating them? It just doesn’t make sense to me.
Insulation from Nazi genocide, as if hundreds of thousands of Poles were not sent to Syberia and Katyń didn’t happen. As if Soviets didn’t collaborate with Nazis forming the Ribbentrop - Molotov pact. Soviets are perpetrators of WW2 in the same way Nazis are. It’s just Stalin got backstabbed by Hitler the same way he stabbed Poland in the back in 1939.
I also wonder what exactly do you mean by Polish state being Holocaust collaborators? You do realize there was no Polish state under Nazi / Soviet occupation, except for the London one? How could it have collaborated in Holocaust?
People were right though, hexbear is just a Russian propaganda tube. I don’t know if you people are paid to do this subhuman work or are you really believe in this alt history bullshit you’re spreading, I feel sorry for you one way or the other.
The pact was the correct move after the western powers (and Poland, afaik) refused to more proactively join the Soviets in crushing the Nazis. The Soviets could not defeat the Nazis without being able to actually reach them on land and the Soviets could not defeat the Nazis if war started then and they were alone (as the western powers hoped would happen). Given the western powers not taking the Nazi threat seriously and the geopolitical implications of that, the pact was entirely correct.
Stalin identified (what I’ve usually seen translated as) “Hitlerism” as the immediate mortal enemy of the Soviets since well before the pact. Incidentally, Hitler also publically identified the Soviets as mortal enemies of the Nazis, making all sorts of accusations about “Judeo-Bolshevism”. These two governments were not allies and it’s an abomination of historical revision to characterize it as such.
Stalin expected Hitler to violate the pact eventually, since the Soviets gained tremendous advantage from stalling and developing their semi-feudal infrastructure into something more modern. He did not, however, expect the Nazis to invade as soon as they did, was caught very unprepared, and suffered horrible losses both of soldiers and civilians (in Poland and the USSR proper) as a result. That last part is something that should be criticized, but you cannot criticize his actual errors coherently in the fantasy framework of him and Hitler being teammates.
https://www.newyorker.com/news/our-columnists/the-historians-under-attack-for-exploring-polands-role-in-the-holocaust
It’s illegal in Poland to make claims like this, so it would not surprise me if you aren’t very familiar, but on a municipal level there absolutely was collaboration between existing Polish government officials and the Nazis.
Here’s another article from the most Atlanticist source you can find in journalism: https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2018/02/poland-holocaust-death-camps/552455/
If my quotes denote sections (with this being the fourth), then the first section of this comment (that the pact was correct) is a claim that isn’t very popular in western historiography but definitely is present. The second and third sections (Stalin and Hitler were always enemies, that the Polish government collaborated in the Holocaust) are the standard position in western historiography even though the Stalin/Hitler one gets distorted in pop history. In countries like Poland and Ukraine, these positions are much less common in part because of reactionary campaigns by those governments to revise history in the direction of Holocaust denial (see section three of my comment and Banderites in Ukraine, respectively).
Nothing I’ve said here is in the realm of a crank opinion to mainstream western historians. I can expand on the western powers not being interested in stopping the Nazis until it became a direct need for their own survival, but it felt like too much of a tangent.
Starting the Holocaust
Ending the Holocaust
Get lost,
Poland literally refused to ally with the Soviets, did imperialism by trying to restore the PLC during the 1920 war, prevented the soviets from aiding german & Hungarian communists, betrayed Czechoslovakia by seizing territory in accord with hitler and did an aforementioned non-aggression pact with the funni mustache guy. Poland literally did everything it could to alienate itself from allies and torpedo its own country. Poles still try to desperately become the next member of the cracker country club and which always will/has ended in their OWN country being destroyed.
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Your opinion was already rejected at “I’m Polish” lmao fucking fascist “no LGBT zones” having theocracy ass motherfucker
Again you admit to your ridiculous view of the Russian people hinging on you being a massive racist piece of shit. This conveniently feeds into being a warmonger who wants to see more innocent people suffer and die for NATO weapons testing because “Russia ork le bad”. If you weren’t blatantly making up the things you said about your grandparents you are a bloody disgrace to their suffering and have learned nothing from their terrible experiences with war. Fuck off back to whatever right wing hellsite you came here from you murderous bastard.
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You believe it when your media scapegoats Russia as le bad instead of your billionaires, think anyone who disagrees with you is a Russian bot, and believe that Russians are subhumans but that’s not racist because trust me bro fr?
And all this somehow doesn’t make you a right winger?
You’re a fine fucking specimen mate.
LMFAO ofc you couldn’t, its your entire ideology dumbass!
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Least Nazi Nato-keyboard-warrior.
My man do you seriously think Russia is paying this dude to post pig poop balls on an obscure image board full of people who already hate the west? That’s not a rhetorical question - I’ve been investigating him for a while and I think that’s exactly what Russia is doing. They’re paying the members here to spread disinformation to one another, increasing the total amount of disinformation available to web crawlers. It’s disgusting.
Edit: if you’re serious, PM me. I’ve got more proof where this comes from.
I’m not right wing, but i agree with them that some people are subhuman
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theyre making fun of the other guy
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Backstab? You mean liberating western Belarus from temporary Polish occupation?
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