• Cleverdawny
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    39
    arrow-down
    20
    ·
    1 year ago

    yet you’re kneecapping large swaths of people on the ground engaging in direct action advancing left leaning values

    Direct action is meaningless if you’re hostile to building a coalition broad enough to actually gain any significant political power. It doesn’t matter how many lit memes anarchists and communists share on social media and how much they horn on about “direct action,” this is a democracy and without votes going to candidates who can win, it is ultimately meaningless.

    You want me to do some introspection? I did. I remember being young and convinced socialism was the way forward. Then I grew the fuck up and did some introspection.

    • Dr. Jenkem@lemmy.blugatch.tube
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      74
      arrow-down
      19
      ·
      edit-2
      1 year ago

      Direct action is meaningless if you’re hostile to building a coalition broad enough to actually gain any significant political power.

      Spoken like someone who’s never done organizing, participated in protests or any other direct action. You’re a keyboard warrior who’s probably never even interacted with a socialist IRL.

      this is a democracy and without votes going to candidates who can win, it is ultimately meaningless.

      Not a democracy and also I already gave 2 examples showing the contrary.

      I remember being young and convinced socialism was the way forward. Then I grew the fuck up and did some introspection.

      No need to be a condescending dick. I’m also guessing I’m older than you, not that it’s relevant.

      • Cleverdawny
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        24
        arrow-down
        14
        ·
        1 year ago

        I’ve participated in dozens of protests. Protests with political organization can lead to change. Protests without political organization are just yelling at a wall.

        No need to be a condescending dick.

        If you don’t want someone to take offense at what you write, don’t smugly tell them to learn introspection. Act like an arrogant dick, get treated like an arrogant dick.

        • Dr. Jenkem@lemmy.blugatch.tube
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          63
          arrow-down
          10
          ·
          1 year ago

          Protests with political organization can lead to change. Protests without political organization are just yelling at a wall.

          Right… I’m not sure why you think I’m not in favor of organized resistance.

          If you don’t want someone to take offense at what you write, don’t smugly tell them to learn introspection. Act like an arrogant dick, get treated like an arrogant dick.

          You were doing a “both sides” between anarchists and fascists, eerily similar to Trump, while claiming to be “left leaning”. I think my response was warranted, if not understated. But frankly, that’s plain ignorant.

          • Cleverdawny
            link
            fedilink
            arrow-up
            9
            arrow-down
            14
            ·
            1 year ago

            Like I said, attempting to degrade the only left leaning political coalition means someone is hostile to any sort of positive left leaning activism. If that doesn’t describe a given anarchist, then what I said doesn’t apply to them. If it does, then they might as well be a Trumpster.

            • Dr. Jenkem@lemmy.blugatch.tube
              link
              fedilink
              English
              arrow-up
              60
              arrow-down
              8
              ·
              1 year ago

              Who or what is this sole “left leaning political coalition”? If you’re referring to Democrats they are neither left leaning nor a coalition. They are a center-right political party. Coalition implies multiple parties. And the Democratic party isn’t exactly known for activism, unless you’re counting fundraising events.

              • Cleverdawny
                link
                fedilink
                arrow-up
                9
                arrow-down
                8
                ·
                1 year ago

                Suuuuuure they’re right leaning.

                And the Democratic party isn’t exactly known for activism

                They’re the only hope for getting anything actually done, like the climate change actions taken by Biden. I don’t always agree with the Democratic Party, but nobody other than them or Republicans are organized better than a herd of cats or numerous enough to win office, so…

                • Dr. Jenkem@lemmy.blugatch.tube
                  link
                  fedilink
                  English
                  arrow-up
                  42
                  arrow-down
                  2
                  ·
                  1 year ago

                  They’re the only hope for getting anything actually done, like the climate change actions taken by Biden.

                  Then we’re fucked. Because idk if you’ve noticed, but the planet is still dying. We are well on our way to passing the point of no return.

                  but nobody other than them or Republicans are organized better than a herd of cats or numerous enough to win office, so…

                  This actually has nothing to do with popularity or ability to organize. Its a problem with how our constitution is written, primarily the fact that we use first passed the post, see Duverger’s law.

                  • Cleverdawny
                    link
                    fedilink
                    arrow-up
                    5
                    arrow-down
                    5
                    ·
                    1 year ago

                    Then we’re fucked. Because idk if you’ve noticed, but the planet is still dying. We are well on our way to passing the point of no return.

                    You’re right. What’s been done so far won’t fully solve the problem. Better undermine support for people trying to get what can be done, done, and then doom all over the Internet.

                    This actually has nothing to do with popularity or ability to organize

                    Nah, even in areas with ranked choice voting, third parties are jokes. Don’t get me wrong, I’m in favor of reforms designed to allow them a more reasonable and equal access to the political levers of power, but the two most significant third parties are the Greens and Libertarians. Neither one is a political force, and not just because of first past the post voting. Niche, ideologically focused parties will always underperform wide coalitions within democracies.

                • holland@lemmy.ml
                  link
                  fedilink
                  arrow-up
                  42
                  arrow-down
                  2
                  ·
                  1 year ago

                  hey’re the only hope for getting anything actually done, like the climate change actions taken by Biden.

                  HAHAHAHA…

                  You mean his approving more oil drilling than Trump?

        • epicspongee [they/them or he/him]@midwest.social
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          24
          arrow-down
          3
          ·
          1 year ago

          I’ve participated in dozens of protests. Protests with political organization can lead to change. Protests without political organization are just yelling at a wall.

          Protests !== organizing. Organizing achieves political change. Protest does not. Leftists know how to organize, liberals do not.

      • socsa@lemmy.ml
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        4
        arrow-down
        5
        ·
        1 year ago

        This is unnecessary aggro, and you are the only one here making sweeping assumptions.

    • GarbageShoot [he/him]@hexbear.net
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      37
      arrow-down
      3
      ·
      1 year ago

      I remember being young and convinced socialism was the way forward.

      Did you actually do any studying about socialism during this phase, or is this the “Che Guevara T-Shirt” socialism I’ve heard so much about?

      • Addfwyn@lemmy.ml
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        40
        arrow-down
        1
        ·
        1 year ago

        We both know it wasn’t even Che Guevara T-Shirt socialism. It was definitely “I think the nordic model is pretty cool” socialism.

    • CyborgMarx [any, any]@hexbear.net
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      12
      ·
      1 year ago

      Direct action is meaningless if you’re hostile to building a coalition broad enough to actually gain any significant political power

      The US isn’t a democracy, you can’t build coalitions with people who want to destroy everything you stand for, direct action got George Floyd justice not votes, and the people you back turned around and decided to fund the police to record levels, it’s a war not an electoral campaign

      I remember being young and convinced socialism was the way forward. Then I grew the fuck up and did some introspection.

      Do you know how to communicate in anything other than thought terminating clichés?