quick dual announcement
New Communities
we’ve tabulated the easiest part of the survey (other results coming later) and we’re pleased to announce that, in the future, we’ll be creating six new communities. these six choices can be stratified as:
most popular, community picks
- World News
- AskBeehaw
hand picked, also popular with our community
- Tabletop Gaming
- Anime and Manga
hand picked, base exists in our community for it and distinct enough to take a chance on
- Vegan and Vegetarian[1]
- Parenting
in the specific case of World News, the !news@beehaw.org community will be converted into the “World News” section, and a separate !usnews community will be spun off for US-centric news.
these communities will be created in batches of three. you’ll see WN+US news conversion/AB/TG first, then A&M/V&V/P about a week after that.
as for communities that didn’t make it, these are best fits for now:
- School & Education: !humanities@beehaw.org
- Camping & Hiking: !greenspace@beehaw.org or !environment@beehaw.org or !chat@beehaw.org
- Fitness: !chat@beehaw.org, occasionally !betterment@beehaw.org
- Photography: wherever it fits
- TIL: !chat@beehaw.org
- Travel: !chat@beehaw.org
- Spirituality: !chat@beehaw.org and !humanities@beehaw.org
- Health: wherever it fits
- Sustainability: can mostly go in !environment@beehaw.org
- AntiWork/WorkReform: !socialism@beehaw.org
- Retro: wherever it fits
Community Moderators
this also means we’re taking on new Community moderators. as with last time: this is not a full time job and we don’t want it to be, but this is also not a completely trivial commitment either, so please only apply if you’re comfortable with making that commitment. (if you think it’s becoming overwhelming or too much for you at a later point, that’s different and we can discuss that then.) our community mods haven’t had many issues though, so i doubt you will either.
What is expected of community moderators?
I’m sure you can surmise, but to be specific:
- Encourage and promote respectful and constructive discussions, and address any behaviour that goes against our community’s spirit to be(e) nice.
- Assist people by answering their questions, offering guidance, and helping them navigate the platform effectively, ensuring they feel heard.
- Where possible, give us and/or your fellow active mods concerns, improvements, or insights you have from your section of our community.
What powers do community moderators have?
You’d be expected to use these responsibly, obviously:
- The ability to remove or hide posts, comments, or other content that violate our community guidelines.
- The authority to issue warnings to users who breach our mantra, and in severe cases, temporarily suspend their accounts.
We generally encourage a compassionate approach to moderating, though. Unless someone is clearly unproductive, we encourage you as a mod to engage in constructive dialogue before banning. And if you don’t have the energy for this, you can flag a post to bring it to our (or another mod’s) attention.
Additionally: blatantly misusing these or using them maliciously will be instant grounds for demotion, and in the latter case likely permanent banning from the site. Do not do that, please and thank you.
If I’m selected, how can I report stuff to the admins?
On site, you can flag it and leave it for us to deliberate. You can also reach one of us by DM on here.
If you need to immediately contact us for mod stuff, our main hubs of operation are Discord (where we have a specific channel for community mod reports) and Matrix (which is pretty relaxed and easy to follow). You can also use a DM on Beehaw itself.
How will mods be selected?
Hand selection. In the future we may supplement hand picking mods with another method—any mods selected by that method would most likely serve on a temporary basis (and that would be made clear to them on appointing).
Applications can be made here.[2]
because i’ve already seen moderately concerning posts w/r/t to this: please do not make us regret this community. it is currently this grouping or nothing. ↩︎
we are working on a non-Google platform here but but our first alternative failed to materialize today and there are easily half a dozen other things we need to prioritize right now (including the big 0.18 update, which had its timing on here derailed by a crippling bug). we’ll get to an alternative when we do. if you do not want to use the form, DM me and we can arrange something. ↩︎
I’m tentatively excited for the veg community here. The communities on other sites can be…a lot.
Maybe just making the name “vegetarian & plant-based” would make people happier? This way people could talk about plant-based cooking regardless of whether it’s for dietary, ethical, environmental, religious, or medical reasons as opposed to the specific culture around veganism in particular. I think both vegans and plant-based non-vegans might appreciate it not having the name be inherently tied to veganism.
Regardless, thank you and…good luck! You’ll need it, haha
There should be separate groups for vegans and all other variations. Vegans and vegetarians are not the same and don’t belong in the same group. Also, plant-based does not cover vegetarians.
I know lemmy communities are still small but it’s important to have groups which are specific to people’s interests, otherwise you’re going to wind up with a lot of fighting. It’s simple enough… at a minimum have plant-based, vegan, and vegetarian as separate groups.
Nice to see Beehaw growing om in a controlled matter and not rushing forward! Still keeping our awesome!
Nice additions. I hope it’s ok to float an idea here. What if there were an “outdoor recreation” community that included things like camping, hiking, backpacking, but also longboarding, inline skating, paddleboarding, parasailing, disc golf, and any other outdoor activities that don’t really need a dedicated community? Just an idea.
All this elitism and drama over the vegan and vegetarian community reminded me why I hate vegans (yes, I’m a vegan who hates vegans. We exist)
I will never understand vegan elitism. The goal should be reducing harm as much as we can. Elitism does nothing to promote veganism as a philosophy and there will always be someone more strict and more ridiculous than you.
There are people who say eating mushrooms isn’t vegan because fungi share similarities with animals. I kid you not.
Can I suggest naming the community simply plant-based?
That ways it not only includes the philosophies of veganism and vegetarianism, but also people that for religious reasons or health problems have to follow a dietary regime based solely or mostly on grains, plants, etc.
I’m against calling the group plant-based. Veganism is concerned with animal welfare and the well-being of the planet, while plant-based ignores all that and only focuses on diet. You say you hate vegans? That’s fine, start another group but leave our group alone.
Animal welfare and the well-being of the planet are two reasons to be vegan. Some people care about both… scratch that, every decent human being cares about both including people who are not vegan. You can, for example, be a person that loves cats and doesn’t want the amazon to be destroyed without being vegan.
Anyway, some people are vegan for those two reasons. Some are vegan for only one of them. And some are vegan for a combination of other reasons.
Such as “I will get sick if there’s butter in this cake” or “meat is too expensive” or “I follow a religion that says not to kill animals” (which is not the same thing as “animal welfare”). Or maybe someone is a manager at a restaurant, and they’re sick of one in ten customers asking “can you make this dairy free?” so they added a vegan label to everything on the menu that is vegan. Or maybe they just want “leather” gloves that can handle frequent exposure to water (vegan leather performs better in wet conditions).
I’m probably missing some. There are lots of reasons someone might want to discuss “vegan” topics.
You say you hate vegans? That’s fine, start another group but leave our group alone.
I see you decided to ignore the fact that I AM VEGAN (which I even mention in my comment) and that I was clearly joking.
I love photography! I like taking pictures of my dog. her name’s pancake and she’s a sweetheart. thank you for signing up to be a moderator and keep our communities safe from transphobic trolls.
AskBeehaw, let’s go!
Really happy for the new communities! Great stuff, keep Be(e)ing awesome!
Very polemic the decision to group veganism and vegetarian.
Why do you think a diet and a philosophy are the same thing? I do not understand this decision and the stubbornness of it. Why are you not open to discussion?
Please explain how this makes any sense. Why not then socialism and vegetarian? or conservatism and steaks?
Veganism is not a diet. I am not making this up and can be checked by literally any source on the internet.
With this decision, you are undermining what veganism is by reducing it to a simple diet that can be grouped with other non even similar diets.
You pride yourselves that this lemmy instance is respectful and inclusive. But you are disregarding vegans and refusing to even talk about it to improve things so you don’t hurt people’s feelings.
you have two options here, man. those options are:
- stop taking this absolutist position and learn to compromise;
- do not use our community or our site (or i suppose get forcibly removed from it eventually)
the community is going to be made, regardless of how you personally feel–at the end of the day we’re not catering to an audience of one and for basically everybody else this is not a worthwhile distinction.
The absolutist position is yours. I am just stating that this is not a well thought choice and you are being stubborn about it.
You don’t even care about the implications of mixing a philosophy with a diet. You don’t care what veganism is and you certainly didn’t do any research before creating this community.
You are imposing this on everyone without any previous consideration or conversation. The fact that I am the only one saying this doesn’t mean that I am the only one thinking like this.
If this isn’t being authoritarian, then what is it?
Also, was point 2 a threat? Not sure so just asking for the records.
It’s very difficult to engage in a constructive dialogue with someone making a series of “you” statements telling the other person their opinion.
I hear that you are upset by this, and I can tell there are strong emotions behind your post, but I think it may be best to take a break from this thread as what has been posted is not constructive.
It was made clear in the OP that the admin team did not believe there is a critical mass of users to support a separate space just for veganism. That had been explained clearly. Others have pointed out that many vegans consider vegetarianism to be similar enough to veganism for them to be combined, so it should be apparent that compromise is acceptable to others.
Refusing to compromise or engage in meaningful, authentic discussion, trying to hear what others are saying, is not going to be a successful strategy. Here or anywhere, for that matter. It’s absolutism.
Anyway, I don’t have a horse in this race. I’m neither vegan nor vegetarian and won’t be participating in that community, but I would suggest you take a break from this thread and start a new post in a few days when you are emotionally ready to listen to understand.
you have a heterodox perspective here. most people don’t perceive vegans and vegetarians as different in some foundational way, and people who self describe as vegans aren’t necessarily in alignment with your perspective. i certainly am not. whatever certainty you seem to have about the distinction between veganism and vegetarianism is not as obvious to other people as you seem to think.
if you truly are having trouble understanding why veganism and vegetarianism would be grouped together, you are likely in an information silo, because the links between the two are well described on wikipedia, and the philosophical underpinnings of the movements (because vegetarianism is not just a diet, its an ancient and significant cultural practice) are deeply interlinked.
genuinely would recommend assessing where it is you are getting your attitudes from. to those not invested in the minutia of differences between philosophical movements with similar goals, you arguing to divide along these lines comes off as dogmatic behavior.
Vegetarians can eat fish, eggs, milk, honey, etc. Vegetarians may enjoy leather clothes. Vegetarian can also enjoy activities like fishing or going to see caged animals in a zoo.
This is a small example but these activities are not vegan because it involves the exploitation and suffering of animals.
When the community is created, pictures containing food with dead animals can be perfectly uploaded under this ‘Vegan and Vegetarian’ category. Do you think vegans like to see animals that have been killed for their taste?
Vegetarians usually don’t eat fish, that’s a pescatarian. The distinction between vegans and vegetarians is that one believes in using animal products, and the other doesn’t. That’s a considerable philosophical position, can you feed an animal and take its milk, eggs, honey, etc? They also tend not to extend their philosophy into stuff, which is a weak position to take, but even vegans have trouble not using animal products (tbh it’s hard enough to buy things that don’t involve human exploitation let alone animal, impossible to go to the hospital as a vegan, etc). I don’t think it’s fair to call one a diet and the other a philosophy, but rather both exist on a spectrum of ethics and conservation. That orientation on the spectrum now has a community. Socialism certainly has its infighting, but we cooperate, and you should too.
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Medications and vaccines are still vegan since they mostly have no alternative that are free of animal exploitation. Veganism is about reducing the exploitation and suffering of animals as much as possible and is practical. Not taking your medication and vaccines is not practical.
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i am aware of the distinctions you are describing. i am even sympathetic to your position. i’m telling you that the sort of lines you are drawing here are not ones that most people feel the need to draw, and that regardless of how right you believe yourself to be, your opinion that these communities aught not touch is both not common, and not universal to vegans. there are places for which the sort of exclusive moderation policies you describe would be welcome and even necessary. the formation of such a community in the fediverse is inevitable. but that does require a certain critical mass of people who support such a community, and if that support doesn’t exist, then it doesn’t exist.
also, the likelihood that people in a community about veganism and vegetarianism will inevitably include pictures containing dead animals, is, i think, at least a little bit presumptive. the content moderation will be determined by the moderators in the community, which doesn’t exist yet, so you don’t know that for certain.
the content moderation of Beehaw seems to me not in service of granular, insular subcultures, but collections of common interests, and like it or not, vegans and vegetarians do have many common interests.
Honestly based on my own experiences in real life I’d say it’s more likely for the vegans to make the vegetarians uncomfortable through discussing the realities behind the production of certain animal products - I’ve only met one vegan IRL who was actually offended by people eating animal products, but I’ve definitely had a few veggo friends get a bit sad after overhearing me yarn about the dairy industry with an ex-dairy-farmer mate of mine!
I’ve observed a utopian vs eutopian difference, philosophically, between vegans and vegetarians respectively. I was vegan for a while, but it was my position that my goal was to reduce my impact, not to eliminate animal products entirely, instead aiming for building a world where livestock, pets, and game animals live enjoyable lives free of suffering. Given this, I found myself aligned much more with the vegetarians I encountered who had the same goals, and were often understanding of that a purely vegan lifestyle is in many ways less sustainable for the planet than one that allows for animal products, and that vegan products are often priced outside what many consumers can afford. The vegans I encountered, however, treated me as if I were literally Hermann Goering
I actually volunteered to moderate that sub specifically for this reason. I’m hoping mods will be contacted before subs are created to discuss.
IMO ‘Vegetarian and Plant Based’ is probably a more fitting sub name/subject.
I don’t think Beehaw is ready for an honest conversation about veganism.
No, they showed they are not ready.
Which is very strange given that they cater to multiple ideologies, sexual inclinations, races, etc. But no, “there will be no discussion about veganism and you will enjoy what we are imposing, period”.
I’m shocked.
You could easily make the same arguments about nearly any community we have on this site and most especially about POC or LGBTQ, the difference is that these groups have chosen to be inclusive of similar identities rather than exclusionary.
Honestly, I joined beehaw knowing that the admins would run it like a benevolent dictatorship. It’s their instance, their servers, their time and effort, and I respect that.
you will enjoy what we are imposing, period
Yep, if you want to make your own community your own way, there’s plenty of other instances that offer that.
I might be missing something, but is it the case that we won’t be able to discuss veganism? I’m vegan for ethical reasons so I do get where you’re coming from with this, but I think there might be perspectives you’re not seeing.
I became vegan something like six years ago and prior to that I was vegetarian for my entire life. I was vegetarian because I had a moral problem with killing things. I became vegan because I eventually ended up actually listening to vegans’ arguments for why dairy etc. aren’t hugely different morally speaking from meat. If you want to create more vegans - and thereby reduce suffering - vegetarians are probably some of the most receptive people to these points, assuming they don’t get alienated.
Assuming I’m not missing something and it is the case that we’d be able to have friendly discussions with people about why we believe veganism is a better moral choice, I don’t really see what’s so wrong here.
Yeah I went through basically the same pipeline as you (except I went vegetarian at ~11yo then vegan about 6 years ago) and to me vegetarianism was far more akin to a philosophy than “just” a diet - I just had some cognitive dissonance / wilful ignorance that I used as an excuse to continue eating cheese and eggs!
There’s a real argument to be made that a combined group is better for vegans, because it exposes them to the thought process.
they cater to multiple ideologies, sexual inclinations, races, etc.
They don’t, though. lgbtq_plus@beehaw.org and poc@beehaw.org are single communities that each represent several different minority groups. Combined, the LGBTQ+ and POC communities are probably a larger percentage of the world (and Beehaw) than people who don’t eat meat.
I am a vegan, and I understand that veganism is a philosophy. However, the reality is that we’re a small group, and we have a lot in common with vegetarians. We are either going to get a combined community for people who don’t eat meat, or no community at all.
Don’t let the perfect be the enemy of the good.
I don’t think it’s strange.
Moderating online communities can be a lot of work. And Beehaw is really trying to maintain civili friendly discourse here.
Part of maintaining civility (without tons of moderating power) is limiting conversation topics where different members are passionately on different sides.
The philosophical implications of the word ‘veganism’ aren’t always obvious to those from outside vegan spaces, which is why I suggested ‘plant based’ as an alternative phrasing.
i think that plant based is maybe a better descriptor as well. more of a big tent than a specific philosophy.
I think that the “plant-based” phrasing would be a lot less vulnerable to this kind of philosophical debate, and it better captures the overlap.
Well, to weigh in here…I don’t think I saw anywhere about the admins saying it’s not a topic up for discussion. I believe what they were saying is that in order to organize the communities in a way that is feasible for members (of Beehaw or other) to be able to see/find communities in a broader sense.
While I am not vegan or vegetarian…I can understand the frustration. It’s like trying to combine (for lack of a better example) arts. Lets say they combined a Sci-Fi and Fantasy board. While they may be radically different at their core, they can still fall under the broader category of writing or arts. Even though they may contrast or not even be completely related… its the broader sense of organizing them into categories that can easily be digested. I know it may be a stretch, but this is how I choose to interpret these actions. It’s not a snub or a malicious intent behind the restructuring, just some house cleaning.
Now, I can’t speak for the mods and admins… but… with boards like this, just as categories can be combined, they can also be separated. Who is to say that this may not happen in the future as Beehaw continues to grow. It’s never said that this was meant to be permanent, so far as I can see. Again, can’t speak for the mods or admins but they could also make it go under one title and two separate boards under one heading. Names can easily be modified.
I’m certain that if we talk to the admins/mods, respectfully, as they have been with us, it’ll make it easier to co-operate.
Just my 2 cents. :)
I am happy to have a vegan space here, but I’m not about to exclude ANYONE because the community does not fully match my expectations. This is a social place to have fun and talk and have constructive discussion. The last thing I want is to put a gate up in a inclusive space. I’m vegan for the animals, but I love everyone here. I choose beehaw for the inclusive and safe space, not to expect it to change to vegan echo chambers similar to reddit.
Veganism may be more than a diet, but it certainly involves a diet. This would be your place to discuss the dietary component.
Doubtless there are other communities that could house the philosophical component. If not, you could spin up a Lemmy instance just for Vegans.
The point is, most people are not vegans and not even all vegans share your view, so expecting them to cater your very specific perspective is less than realistic. Your ideological purity is not this website’s priority. Nor should it be, assuming the goal is to create a vibrant community.
I’m vegan personally, but my vegetarian friends and family members approach it much more similarly to my veganism (i.e a philosophy) than a simple diet. You’re also forgetting about the millions of people who are lactovegetarian for religious reasons - I’m pretty sure they’d say that it’s more than just a diet!
Veganism is not a diet.
Neither is vegetarianism. Both are philosophies that involve plant-based diets.
Good work. I wonder if the anime community will be spun up before the Gundam finale on Sunday, hehe
There wasn’t a place in the application to write extra notes, so I’ll slap em here.
I’d be willing to moderate the anime community but I wouldn’t want to be head mod, primarily because I don’t want to be responsible for the community guidelines. I think it’d be very nice to have a community that actually moderates transphobic slur usage in the anime community, but this is a touchy subject in the anime community for some reason. I prefer to have someone else to defer to on these kinds of decisions though, because I feel like I can be pretty uptight about stuff.
spoiler
i mean the word “trap” to be clear. the origin of the term is an old 4chan meme with admiral ackbar saying “its a trap”, referring to male characters who dress in fem clothes. It implies that the only goal of crossdressing is to “trap” men into dating other men. I hope I don’t have to elaborate any more on why that’s a bad thing or how specifically its transphobic (or, at best, toxic to cis/straight crossdressers).
rest assured one of our admins wants to take the lead on the community so it avoids that stuff and we’ll be well staffed if we pick you, so hopefully it won’t be an issue
I personally would also love to have a community for “Uplifting news”, since global news can be very depressing sometimes. Having some uplifting news is a nice change imo
I’d like this but I’d hate it if it became like a orphan-crushing machine scenario where it sounds nice that a child sold lemonade over the summer and saved money to pay for kids lunches, but like all kids should have basic nutrition guaranteed at school and options to allow less fortunate students to eat breakfast and/or take home meals. So like genuinely good news about good policy or positive news about anything that isn’t tainted by the typical capitalist bullshit or ulterior motive or quasi-nationalism if you can understand what I’m trying to express.
I keep seeing post tags coming up in the Lemmy issues on github. I hope that it does become a thing, cause having tags in global news would be super useful.
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some people have been pushing for an exclusively vegan community with fairly militant rhetoric and to say the least it is a bit offputting, not to mention exceedingly unlikely to happen just on merits. even combined, the community got a “quite niche” level of support on the survey and we could have gone with almost any other community before that one when it comes to a justifiable hand-pick.
(Also, w/r/t=“with regard to”?)
yes
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if there will be a dota 2 community I’ll help out with that. Dota 2 in lemmy right now is a weird one. There is a major going on and when i make post, some show up most don’t. I messaged the mod but no response. Thise which show up takes up like 5 hours to show. So i dont know what is wrong there.
Re. candidate moderators: I have a couple of questions and I wouldn’t be surprised if there might be others with them. I’ll go ahead and ask them here:
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Should the community anticipate openings for additional opportunities to help around in Beehaw, either coming soon or in the long term? I’d think that a fair chunk of this is going to come down to continued work on Lemmy in general, but I’d also suspect there’ll be reason for more hands to directly volunteer or work with Beehaw outside of content moderating, too. Admittedly I wouldn’t be too surprised if the answer to this amounts to a “we’ll Wait and See.”
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The form gives the chance to select potential openings in a few communities, both new and established. I’d suppose candidates will have a later opportunity to talk more about what communities they think they’ll work well in?
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I noticed the other communities are there, but I don’t see the vegan / vegetarian one. I understand the topic might be a big controversial, it will bring vegetarians and militant vegans in the same space, and that opposing force might be too much for a community like beehaw to handle. Since that can really push away people from a space.
I feel bad, because I did push for a vegan community, but i’m ignorant to how communities are ran. Vegans that are here already feel at home because of the community beehaw has created.
I think because this is Beehaw, a Vegan community would be fine… 99% of Vegans are not argumentive or aggressive about their position, most just want to exist or be informative about the position.
I suppose that part of the problem with a vegan community is that it’d be a magnet for trolls, and might need more active moderation than is usual/desired.
