- cross-posted to:
- toronto@lemmy.ca
- cross-posted to:
- toronto@lemmy.ca
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Micro mobility isn’t the problem, it’s the future of sustainable person transportation. The problem is that we’re not updating our infrastructure.
They’re on the sidewalk because they’ll be killed in the car lanes, and those are the only options. We need better bike (and by extension micro mobility) infrastructure. And not just random lanes that don’t go anywhere, we need a whole network. Cars get it, so why shouldn’t a safer, more efficient, and more environmentally friendly solution?
Generally, people ride on sidewalks because the alternatives on the road are even more dangerous. I hope Olivia Chow really improves Toronto’s bike/mobility lane network with something more than just a painted gutter lane.
In congested areas, bikes and scooters also use sidewalks to avoid traffic jams
Which is why they need their own bike lanes. And if these bike lanes are getting congested, then theyre doing their job and we need wider bike lanes.
I hate that cars can go around running over people every single day without making the news, but this e-scooter accident is supposedly worthy of national news.
Every accident is regrettable, but the number of accidents we tolerate from scooters and bikes can’t be zero. Micro mobility is still MUCH safer than cars. I bet if the e-scooter driver was killed by an unnecessarily big truck on the road, it would still be called an “e-scooter accident” if it even made the news at all.
I wish we were more like the Netherlands when it comes to road safety. When a car accident happens, a crew comes out to anaylze the incident and determine if there is any way to make the infrastructure itself safer and help prevent a similar accident. This is very effective because unlike policies, rules and signs there is a physical element to safety (raised crossings, seperated and protected bike lanes, narrow lanes lowering speeds). This physical element is much more effective at preventing accidents than a similar rule would because the physical element can help prevent human mistakes.
For example a wide 2 lane road in a school zone is a 40km/hr road with a painted divider line, a painted crosswalk in front of the school, and a yellow crosswalk sign. There is very little actually preventing a car from exceeding this speed limit. A safer design might look like 2 physically seperated and narrow lanes passing the school with a speed limit of 20 or 30 km/hr. The crosswalk is now raised to sidewalk level, even more narrow, and coloured. It is similar to a very large and wide speed bump. The crosswalk also has a pedestrian island in the center to make crossing easier. The crossing sign has been replaced with a crossing signal. Some efforts may also be taken to prevent this road from being a pass through route by proiritizing a different road to carry passing traffic.
Agreed! There was a great Not Just Bikes video on YouTube on this topic.
Thats how I know about it and it just makes sense. Its ignorant to assume policy can eliminate or prevent human error, especially when fatalities are possible.
You should read the article. It, and the accident victim, are calling for scooters to be legalised and regulated.
The article expresses multiple views. Half the article highlights a call by various groups to enforce the ban on scooters completely. The title obviously implies that the solution is an enforcement of Toronto’s ban, not better infrastructure.
The regulation that the city needs is that whenever roads are rebuilt they should prioritize transport options as follows: wheelchairs/pedestrians > bicycles > e-scooters/e-bikes > transit > compact cars > pedestrian mutilators (a.k.a. pickup trucks and SUVs). It is preposterous that some residential roads today don’t even have sidewalks.
They should also eliminate right turns on red, which are as hostile to pedestrians and bicycles as it gets.
This is a good take. Pedestrians frequently get hit by automobiles and often times it can just be considered a “no fault accident”. Where is the out cry then for safer streets, better visibility regulations, and lower speed limits?
It seems so dystopian to hold pedestrians, transit and cyclists to such stricter conditions and expectations than cars are held to. Roadways are able to bankrupt cities but politicians get furious if a bus route doesn’t make their city money.
You wouldn’t believe how many times I’ve personally almost been run over while on bike because of that, but even worse, when crossing the street the after the light turns green. Most drivers don’t look the way they’re going, and instead solely pay attention to the colour of the pretty lights overhead like three month olds.
Pedestrians/wheelchairs should ALWAYS be separated from vehicles (and that’s including bikes) with physical barriers, and bikes separated from cars with physical barriers anywhere the speed limit’s greater than 20km/h. And speed limits shouldn’t be enforced with simply signs, but actually physical barriers that prevent speeding, like regular turns or speed bumps.
Drivers are so entitled in this country that they complain about being ticketed by the police when they’re the ones knowingly breaking the laws. Laws that exist because people kill each other due to carelessness if it wasn’t for these laws! And people DO kill each other constantly despite these laws! I mean, if most statistics didn’t lump in cars together with all other accidents, cars alone would be the 11th leading cause of death in the States!
Even as a kid something just seemed off about everyone hurtling around in 2000+ pounds of steel and rubber. So many people I’ve met say they hate driving and how stressful it yet they have to depend on it even when they are uncomfortable behind the wheel. We only test the drivers when they are learning then expect a life time of safe driving and staying up to date on the rules. Not to mention the insane costs of car ownership that is nearly mandatory because of how we build our cities and neglect other transportation options.
They go fast enough to keep up with bikes. They should be treated as such.
They go fast enough to outpace bikes. There is absolutely no reason these should be on a sidewalk.
I mean really, infrastructure should be in place to allow for proper mixed use transport where bikes and scooters wouldn’t need to share the road with cars, but the solution is not to instead share the sidewalk with pedestrians.
E-scooters should be on the sidewalk unless there’s a properly bike/scooter lane for them
Better the sidewalk than the road, cars are way more dangerous than scooters
I used to rollerblade on the sidewalk. That was until an old lady beckoned me over and said “if you hit me, you’ll break my hip, and I’ll die.”
If e-scooters are on the sidewalk to be safe, where do the pedestrians go to be safe?
The danger difference between scooters and cars is massive. It’s on the scooter driver to be cognisant of their surroundings and the people they could hurt, just like cars
But my coworker got hit by a car while using his scooter on the road 3 days ago. Cars are just way more dangerous to scooters than scooters are to pedestrians
There’s still added danger. Crossing a street is hostile enough, but at least the sidewalk is predictable. When I’m behind a row or parked cars, everyone is moving at the same speed and it’s fine. Throw motorized vehicles onto the sidewalk and now it’s even more hostile.
Let pedestrians have some space.
Fighting over the 10% of the ROW that is sidewalk while letting the other 90% get occupied by the leading preventable cause of death of children is ridiculous.
So long as they aren’t going full speed while on sidewalks and they’re adjusting their speed according to the number of pedestrians, I fully agree. Sometimes you have to go at a walking pace on a crowded sidewalk, and if it’s an empty suburban sidewalk with clear visibility, I see no problem at all.
If there are pedestrians around, they should be walking. Pedestrians don’t have anywhere else to go.
Should you have to walk your scooter on an otherwise empty strip mall sidewalk whenever there is even a single pedestrian in eye sight? I think it’s fine to walk the scooter before crossing paths and then get back on.
This is the best summary I could come up with:
She remembers walking north on Jane Street in late June, on her way to work, when she heard the bell of an e-scooter ringing from behind her.
Earlier this summer, Toronto city council voted to pump the brakes on the latest bid to study legalizing e-scooters.
Staff are studying how different light-weight vehicle types including cargo bikes/trikes, e-mopeds and e-scooters could be used on city streets to reduce emissions and improve safety on Toronto’s roads.
The latest bid to legalize e-scooters comes two years after council decided to ban the small motorized vehicles on city streets, citing safety concerns.
The Canadian National Institute for the Blind has been among the groups speaking up about the dangers of e-scooters, especially for people with vision or hearing disabilities.
Nisha Mitchell, the program lead for advocacy, accessible community engagement for the CNIB in the Greater Toronto Area, said there must be mandatory technology to prevent scooters from being driven at high speeds and on sidewalks.
The original article contains 939 words, the summary contains 159 words. Saved 83%. I’m a bot and I’m open source!
If something is already banned, more rules isn’t the solution, better enforcement is the next step.
The article covers that. Outright bans get ignored, regulation keeps major offenders in check. It’s like the war on marijuana
