As much as I love these arguments, they don’t solve anything and can make things a lot worse.
A lot of companies have bosses who are putting in significant hours. They sometimes do this because they have the income and familial situation to support it. Sometimes the bosses have no families, or have nannies, or are not the main caretaker. Sometimes they just have “no life”.
Japan is a good example. Incredibly long working hours and incredibly work-centric culture at all levels.
The way to argue better working conditions isn’t to point fingers at other people and ask “well why aren’t they also having to suffer like me?”.
I can confirm. It’s not about actually doing something, it’s about being seen. And it’s best when you look tired. A pat on the back, a few お疲れ様でした. And it’s certainly not about efficiency or outcome. Efficiency is virtually non-existent here, except in Western companies here. Working テレワーク pretty much equals to not working.
The boss has the power to fix things, to some degree. You don’t get to say “I’m the boss and I’m working myself to death, so my employees should, too.” and expect to be respected. Bosses should know better, it’s literally their job to know better, and they have the power to make people’s lives better.
And of course many bosses and CEOs and presidents are hypocrites. How often are they on TV remotely talking about how bad remote work is?
Also, in Japan, low level employees are often expected to arrive before the boss and leave after the boss.
I think people really missed my point, and thought I was somehow arguing in favour of poor working conditions.
My point was that the Lemmy response that “well why doesn’t the boss do this?” is not the right negotiation tactic.
The right negotiation tactic is, for example, to argue that it’s in the benefit of the company and society to improve working conditions. For example, you argue that by allowing remote working, you are encouraging not only a happier and more productive environment, but you are widening access and better able to recruit the top people.
There are lots of ways to argue for better conditions. The reaction of “well the boss doesn’t do it so I won’t either” is not a great tactic. If the boss does put in crazy hours, where does that leave your negotiation stance?
Ah. It is because your first comment was vague. You didn’t actually say what you disagreed with. If you had said, “Pointing out hypocrisy on its own is not a great way to negotiate. Let’s try these other approaches instead or as well.” then I think people would have agreed with you more.
Of course it was still peculiar that you brought up Japan, since it doesn’t actually show what you wanted it to show, for reasons previously mentioned.
As much as I love these arguments, they don’t solve anything and can make things a lot worse.
A lot of companies have bosses who are putting in significant hours. They sometimes do this because they have the income and familial situation to support it. Sometimes the bosses have no families, or have nannies, or are not the main caretaker. Sometimes they just have “no life”.
Japan is a good example. Incredibly long working hours and incredibly work-centric culture at all levels.
The way to argue better working conditions isn’t to point fingers at other people and ask “well why aren’t they also having to suffer like me?”.
It’s “why is the person asking me to suffer not also having to suffer”
In a situation where no suffering is required at all.
Japan is a terrible example as it’s all about being “in the office” regardless of productivity
I can confirm. It’s not about actually doing something, it’s about being seen. And it’s best when you look tired. A pat on the back, a few お疲れ様でした. And it’s certainly not about efficiency or outcome. Efficiency is virtually non-existent here, except in Western companies here. Working テレワーク pretty much equals to not working.
The boss has the power to fix things, to some degree. You don’t get to say “I’m the boss and I’m working myself to death, so my employees should, too.” and expect to be respected. Bosses should know better, it’s literally their job to know better, and they have the power to make people’s lives better.
And of course many bosses and CEOs and presidents are hypocrites. How often are they on TV remotely talking about how bad remote work is?
Also, in Japan, low level employees are often expected to arrive before the boss and leave after the boss.
I think people really missed my point, and thought I was somehow arguing in favour of poor working conditions.
My point was that the Lemmy response that “well why doesn’t the boss do this?” is not the right negotiation tactic.
The right negotiation tactic is, for example, to argue that it’s in the benefit of the company and society to improve working conditions. For example, you argue that by allowing remote working, you are encouraging not only a happier and more productive environment, but you are widening access and better able to recruit the top people.
There are lots of ways to argue for better conditions. The reaction of “well the boss doesn’t do it so I won’t either” is not a great tactic. If the boss does put in crazy hours, where does that leave your negotiation stance?
Ah. It is because your first comment was vague. You didn’t actually say what you disagreed with. If you had said, “Pointing out hypocrisy on its own is not a great way to negotiate. Let’s try these other approaches instead or as well.” then I think people would have agreed with you more.
Of course it was still peculiar that you brought up Japan, since it doesn’t actually show what you wanted it to show, for reasons previously mentioned.