“It’s time we grow up,” says former moderator of jailbait subreddit.
I just commented on another similar article! His reasoning for this move contradicts itself! How can he claim that the overwhelming majority of users (97%) use the official Reddit app, but the use of 3rd party apps is destroying their bottom line? That means that that the lost profit from 3% of users are the reason for the API price change?
And… if there are only 4-5 big 3rd party apps (like Apollo, RIF), why force them out of the market? If only 3% of users use them, are they really that big of a deal? Why are the prices so astronomically high?
This is Reddit consolidating their empire. I hope that folks are prepared for future roll-outs of new subscriptions and reasons that Reddit users need to pay.
I’m honestly shocked the redditors are so blind to this. Do they actually think it’ll just be plain sailing from here on out?
Maybe in just to old skool and remember a time when Reddit would have really stood up.
It absolutely will not be plain sailing - I think that the protest is an early warning sign. People that stick to Reddit are going to be bombarded with ads, Premium features, and new programs after Reddit goes public.
I am an Apollo user until the end - I think that after having such a good experience under Christian, I forgot how scummy a big corporation can be. Times are changing - we just saw some similar things with Musk taking over twitter.
Well I had hoped, naiively that Reddit would respect the developer community that had helped make their website so popular. A community of developers provided apps and services for them for the simple price of a free API. I thought the APIpocolypse might happen, but I thought reddit was special somehow and they would see how beautiful and vibrant that community was and not damage it for fear of damaging the soul of the website. Yeah, that was pretty fucking naiive.
Ah well, I’ll put my energy into Lemmy and Fediverse projects instead.
Reddit got so big it’s now the default, the masses are always looking for the simple default option.
Yeah it’s the convenience of use. Fediverse right now is not convenient to use IMO. Most of the people here are somewhat tech savvy and even then many people did face issue of creating an account and were confused about how the whole thing works. Now try explaining all that to a person that just uses Reddit like the company intends them to.
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Reddit felt like it was going downhill for a long time. I think I just started scrolling it out of habit, only participating in a few subs for hobbies and games. This shitshow was the kick in the ass I needed to shreddit and delete my account.
Also. I think more users need to do that. Make sure you shreddit your comments and posts so reddit can’t keep your content.
It’s been pretty bad for a while now.
I used to go to reddit to learn something new, to see the news for the day, to find a cool new hobby or interest, to read deep discussions about topics that I didn’t know that much about.
But that was like 8 or 9 years ago.
Lately the entire front page is doom bait, vaguely disguised racism, political trolling, violence, memes, and reposts.
I used to browse /r/all about half of the time and my subscribed subs the other half.
I muted serial reposters / content farmers whenever I noticed them, but this past year I hit a breaking point and I changed my default feed to subs only and intentionally chose to avoid /r/all.
Sucks that I’m going to lose my niche communities on reddit, but I’ve been a lot happier here so far.
Exactly. For guys like me who joined 16 years ago, it’s felt like a steady decline for a decade already. This is just a convenient time to jump to another platform because others will join me.
Thats a great word for it. Doom bait. I hated being surrounded by pessimism on that site
A switch flipped somewhere to whenever i logged onto reddit I would leave feeling worse. It’s for the best that I stopped using it i think
I agree. Everything was so much more depressing. Maybe it was the subs I subscribed to but I felt it was more than that.
It makes so little sense to me. They could have charged a reasonable amount and made some money off of the apps, but instead, they chose to kill them and lose their users. Some might migrate to the official app, but this uproar may have caused even more to leave the platform entirely.
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I fucking hate spez. Will never use reddit again
It’s probably even more expensive to piss off any investors right before an IPO.
I think this is exactly why. It’s to make sure that Reddit is “shored up” from any profits leaking out, and making sure that NSFW content is locked down so that investors actually invest.
It sucks because it’s our posts, our comments, our information that makes Reddit what it is. This is simply preparation for advertising and other for-profit opportunities. Greedy.
As CEO, I always like to go online and tell the whole world “we’re not profitable” right before my IPO. Big brain stuff, ya know.
I also like to get caught lying about business calls, really helps the reputation
We can only hope.
3% is bullshit. About 20% users use third party apps. Source: r/privatelife founder, and these are 12 month usage statistics.
However, this is also the most favourable scenario, being the largest authentic privacy subreddit not filled with Snowden/Assange dismissive mods. But it is around 20% rather than 3%.
Spez is now making up self contradictory nonsense and even attempting to create infighting between moderators from yesterday’s statement he gave. Spez simply wants to leech off all the great content made by “guest bloggers” (a term old timers use) and all the unpaid moderation people have done. He is simply saying that the old relationship is over, and that all old users can fuck off, because new users are ready to consume an Instagram-ified official Reddit app with doomscrolling, chock filled with ads, a bloated UI and load of spying and tracking. Reddit also is astroturfed by US military teams, so that is tied into the reason why all Big Tech platforms are suddenly going hostile – to invent a new reality, devoid of any criticism against Western empire.
What it is Spez? How can people who use third party apps simultaneously be only 3% of the user base (I realize you proved he’s wrong) and significant enough to ruin Reddit’s profitability? Cause if you’re going public and only three percent of your users can ruin Reddit’s profitability you’re in for a rough ride. Investors don’t like too much risk.
really went off the rails there lol. I could tell when you mentioned Snowden/Assange.
you don’t think it’s nuts for snowden critics to mod privacy subreddits when snowden is the guy behind the main leak that showed how fucked our privacy is?
That fedposter behaviour continues to piss me off as a privacy stalwart.
“We’re 18 years old,” Huffman said. “I think it’s time we grow up and behave like an adult company.”
Who the hell is this even directed to?
The 16 year olds defending their actions?
It’s expensive to run a company that constant wastes resources and is trying to grow beyond what it is.
No no no but you see we need to restrict API access for the third party apps! They use just way too much bandwidth!! Apollo alone can use like 300 requests a day! We need people to use our shitty slow horrible app that uses an average of 500 requests per day. If it weren’t for third party apps we (10 billion dollar company) would be thriving!
They’re just greedy, the only reason the official app makes marginally more money despite using more requests is thanks to tracking
I liked it better when they had one kind of Reddit Gold and displayed a progress bar on the homepage showing what percentage of daily operating costs were covered.
It’s the same reason people don’t show their pateron monthly incomes, they don’t want people knowing how much money and potentially saying to themselves wow 3x daily cost? Seems I don’t need to give money.
Yeah I get that, but I don’t respect it. I show my Patreon income even when it gets large enough that people might think twice. That’s their choice.
At this point this seems intentional. This has definitely pushed me away from Reddit and I’m already seeing a lot more meaningful conversations on Lemmy. All I ever saw on Reddit anyways is people just trying to one up each other on the comment threads for upvotes. Took a lot of scrolling to even get to people actually talking about the topic.
Agree it’s intentional. Normies don’t care about any of this and will just follow the memes. Most of us here are the users that had ad blockers and probably didn’t care about giving gold.
Giving and receiving gold was surprisingly, one of my least favourite things. Someone gave me gold once and i felt beholden to say thank you? I didnt ask for it, i didnt comment in hopes of getting given “gold”. I never gave anyone else gold. Why would i give a shit about getting it myself? Its a fucking forum.
Reactions are common in lots of forums though, gold is just a special reaction.
A special upvote if you will, its not really that deep.Waste of money.
Ramen, exactly 💯 this. Every time I wanted to see what commentary was on the post I would almost have to scroll to the bottom to get any talk about the actual post.
people just trying to one up each other on the comment threads for upvotes.
Here, have an upvote on me =D
Reddit OTOH was a good place to discover other things organically (not the enshittification attempt “other people liked that sub” interjections). But the only thing I miss is a way to group my subscriptions.
Currently Lemmy is getting up to speed, and the discussion quality has already started to drop; we’ll see whether communities can police themselves.
“It’s expensive to run a company into the ground” - u/spez
I’m actually somewhat happy all this happened now. I’m sad for the 3rd party app devs and everyone who suffers from these decisions. And for the wonderful communities and knowledge bases that were shattered.
But I think it caused me, and many others, to realize that great community and discussions could still be had on the internet, and that we hadn’t been having those for quite a while over on reddit.
There’s a lot of value in smaller scale too. Not everything needs to be mega-platform level for the mass market. We can have great communities in smaller spaces online too — sometimes even better as a result.
I have been thinking about this a lot in light of recent events. Growing up in the era of smaller communities, forums, etc. I can’t say large, monolithic, corporate entities have ultimately been a change for the better.
It’s not better. It was only better since I didn’t have to create several accounts for the different forums I would use. This small inconvience was enough to stop contributions from people that don’t even care about that topic.
The downvoting is the worst part. I’ve seen correct comments downvoted, not opinions but tech questions dealing with standards. Downvoting creates an anonymous mob mentality. This gets bad when the mob knows nothing about the topic and is open to all.
Reddit has destroyed so many communities because of how easy they made everything. No one really talks about that.
It’s been boosting discovery of fediverse and causing an explosion of both traffic and hopefully donations.
I’m hoping the app developers move to Lemmy. I’d happily pay monthly for Sync, and he could spin up his own server and the fee would cover those costs as well. I’m sure many people would do the same for their favorite apps.
Yes, it is. So charge a reasonable API price and this whole argument is over.
But that won’t happen. This is about monetizing Reddit’s content ASAP before Spez resigns ASAP with a nice big, bonus for pushing through those beautiful API changes oh so smoothly.
The more Spez speaks, the less sad I am about Reddit dying. Platforms come and go. There’s loads of Internet corners to discuss my hobbies. I don’t want to stay on a sinking ship with a hole shot out by the captain because he has ship insurance, actively throwing people off board as him and his crew climb up the still buoyant part whilst insisting THIS WILL BLOW OVER. I’m not going down with the Titanic of community boards as it sinks. It’ll die in infamy and I don’t feel like drowning alongside it.
However, I will now thoroughly enjoy watching Spez naively, single-handedly dismantle Reddit’s legacy for short term gain whilst thinking he’s being a super duper smart businessman we couldn’t possibly understand. Or possibly being a forced fallguy for share holder decisions which he has a choice in avoiding by quitting.
I’ve never in all my years of Internet browsing seen someone running an Internet-based company so blatantly indifferent to the customers they serve. There’s no Reddit revenue without Redditors.
I wish him luck on his inevitably piss-poor IPO when Reddit offers little content of value and more people get more angry at him as more ridiculous reasoning flies out of his mouth. Reddit’s gonna look like MSN News by the end of this mess.
I mean there are a lot of parallels with Elon and Twitter.
The thing that amazes me about the Reddit tanking - is how sudden it was. For anyone who was paying more attention than I was at the start - how long were there smoke signals for?
I swear it was like 2 Apollo posts within 48hrs straight into blackout shitstorm within the week.
Elon at least hummed and Harred about it for a good while before destroying Twitter week after week and that was fast.
Spez seems to be speed running it.
My theory is the stockholders definitely have an IPO planned very, very, very soon and are applying a lot of pressure on Spez to prep Reddit ahead of it. I don’t trust him for a second when he says an IPO isn’t happening for a long time. It’s the only logical explanation I can think of for Reddit’s extremely reckless decisions.
😂 fuck u/spez
I like the Fediverse and I think I’ll stay.
I enjoy how he’s still talking about this as if it’s purely about having 3rd party apps pay a fee, not about his incredibly piss-poor handling of it.
The irony is that at the fee they are charging, there is very little useful application for the API. So I doubt they will make much, if any, money from it. So they are just enraging and driving away their user base for a plan which won’t work anyway. Unless the API was just costing them so much server time that they are getting massive cost reductions by closing it.
I know right? I have no problem with a fee existing. It’s the ridiculously high fee, and the complete BS he tried to feed everyone that really drive me away. It’s only going to get worse. I hope lemmy gets big enough
Sentence 1: Really, only 3 percent of users are pissed about this; It’s insignificant.
Sentence 2: These disruptions from 3rd party app supporters really hurt our bottom line. This is expensive!
Maximum cope
This is why the fediverse is so great. It really is really expensive to run a social media company. By spreading the cost over many actors and encouraging competition, this allows us to host content without being beholden to billionares.
*Chinese billionaires
Are you trying to bring your Reddit = Chinese government xenophobic r/conspiracy Reddit nonsense here? Would you like to provide proof? Because this is violating a rule.
I am asking this in full earnestness: is any critique of the Chinese government assumed to be rooted in xenophobia?
Most of it has its roots in xenophobia and crushing the “near-peer competitors”, yes. You can ask US government about Cold War McCarthyist propaganda which is spread by NATO (US/Europe) media. You can even go back as far as 1940 to find a short film series Drums of Fu Manchu (check YouTube), which is before NATO’s creation, or the Opium War I by Britain in 1856 and British Raj on India for 2 centuries.
Orientalism, xenophobia and imperialist looting/plundering against East are historically well known evil deeds of Westerners.
I feel that maybe you’re reading my question as ‘critique of China is inherently support for the west/US/etc’ which I absolutely do not mean. I think that it’s possible that painting all critique with a broad ‘xenophobia’ brush (while undoubtedly warranted at times) can prevent discussion in good faith.
The above poster specifically “corrected” parent commenter, knowing very well the conspiratorial xenophobic notions he was propagating. Most Anglo people never talk about China/Russia (or any country that is NOT a “western neoliberal democracy” or its vassal state) in good faith, because Cold War McCarthyist poison is filled in their heads, resulting in a knee jerk reaction whenever they see the words “China” or “Russia”. There is no reason why Anglosphere participants should be given benefit of doubt, when instead of following by example, they continue to get more vitriolic everyday. I am happy that Russians cannot be dehumanised on Lemmy, considering how much of a cesspool Reddit is.
If this is the thinking I can expect on this instance, perhaps this is not the instance for me.
I think he’s referring to how Reddit used to operate on Tencent funding.
Tencent is partially owned by the Chinese government.5% stake is not relevant if you looked at other shareholders of Reddit. It is a xenophobic conspiracy theory if we looked at the largest shareholders of Reddit (https://web.archive.org/web/20230108005443/https://www.investmentwatchblog.com/who-owns-reddit-a-breakdown-of-the-type-and-nationality-of-shareholders/):
- Conde Nast (AP): 100% * 0.72 = 72%
- American VCs: (5% + 1/3 * 5%) * 0.8 + (1/2 * 11.1% + 7/18 * 11.1%) * 0.9 + 5% * 1.0 = 19.21%
- American individuals: (2/3 * 5%) * 0.8 + (1/18 * 11.1%) * 0.91 = 3.23%
- Dubai VC: (1/18 * 11.1%) * 0.9 = 0.56%
- Tencent: 5% * 1.0 = 5%
Breakdown of Series A VC, Condé Nast: https://www.nytimes.com/2012/09/03/business/media/reddit-thrives-after-advance-publications-let-it-sink-or-swim.html
Breakdown of Series B VCs being all Americans: https://www.crunchbase.com/funding_round/reddit-series-b--662ba273
Breakdown of Series C VCs being 8 Americans and 1 Dubai VC: https://www.crunchbase.com/funding_round/reddit-series-c--168f04d0
Breakdown of Series D VCs with 3 American VCs and China’s Tencent: https://www.crunchbase.com/funding_round/reddit-series-d--c9282e50
Condé Nast and one American VC hold more shares than Tencent, plus Reddit is astroturfed by US military, as seen during 2015. https://old.reddit.com/r/Blackout2015/comments/4ylml3/reddit_has_removed_their_blog_post_identifying/ Reddit, if anything, is a literal US military arm to spread propaganda in media, and not controlled by Chinese government.
The root of “Tencent CCP own Reddit” conspiracy literally lies in r/conspiracy to spread xenophobic sentiments against China. Anyone perpetuating this nonsense will face a ban after this.
It’s well known and accepted that the Chinese government has significant control of Chinese companies, and Reddit is partially owned by Tencent. That’s not xenophobic.
The fact that it’s something like a 5% stake is more relevant.
Read the below response. https://lemmy.ml/comment/750332
Condé Nast and one American VC hold more shares than Tencent, plus Reddit is astroturfed by US military, as seen during 2015. https://old.reddit.com/r/Blackout2015/comments/4ylml3/reddit_has_removed_their_blog_post_identifying/
The root of “Tencent CCP own Reddit” conspiracy literally lies in r/conspiracy to spread xenophobic sentiments against China. Anyone perpetuating this nonsense will face a ban after this.
“a literal US military arm” is just as ridiculous. It’s neither.
Far, far less ridiculous than “Chinese government controlled”, as there is real proof of US military astroturfers, as shown above, and Reddit even suppresses this information intentionally. The whole of frontpage is suspiciously filled with pro-US imperialist propaganda and an anti-China/Russia article every week with dozens of awards.
And you think there aren’t Russian and Chinese propagandists on Reddit?
pro-US imperialist propaganda
Right. Like all those school kids getting shot.
he moderated WHAT? So not only is he an idiot, he’s a pedo? What a great image.
The fact that he was a mod on jailbait is kind of a distraction. It’s funny in concept, but at the time, mods could just add anyone else as a mod instead of sending an invite to be a mod. So anyone could be assigned as a mod for an embarrassing subreddit.
There’s some problematic power tripping mods and those incidents are the most visible, but probably >99% of mod actions are essentially unnoticed and just keeping subreddits relatively organized. And people were doing that for free. If reddit isn’t profitable, then pissing off moderators that were doing work for free does not seem like a good approach.
I doubt he was targeting moderators directly, but that’s what ended up happening in part.
Using the percentage of mods that use 3rd party apps is disingenuous (if that stat is even correct). There’s probably tons of mods on low volume subreddits that don’t need to do much and thus don’t use the mod tools on 3rd party apps. But I bet the percent of mod actions that come through the API vs native is very different than counting it by mod that use the API vs native. As in, a small percentage of mods on big subreddits are probably doing a lot of moderation and they are probably using 3rd party apps at least part of the time.
It’s almost like they’ve been deceptive about everything they’ve said. That’s the reason they’re so pissed at the Apollo creator. His recording of the call really showed that they were full of shit when they tried to pull a fast one on him.
