Ok, buddy

I think the implication is we’re addicted to a magical potion that transforms us into an evil alter ego who causes mischief in town

And then we get to hang out with Abbott and Costello

Yeah I can get behind this, and I’d say you’re right that it’s the bare-bones definition of the economic left vs right divide.

But then you have people who will look at market socialists, anarchists, or some other brand of leftism and call them secret fascists or something like that. It’s my experience (and yours may differ) that MLs are eager to insist that theirs is the only way and dismiss the rest.

Not all MLs are this dogmatic. But when a leftist is this dogmatic, they always seem to be ML

In much of human behavior there tends to be a divide between what we say and what we do. This is no exception

I usually just ignore them.

I find that a lot of crazy right wingers do it to “own the libs” or get a rise out of their supposed enemies. It’s all just a sports game to people like that.

If you ignore them they get bored and stop being so staunch in their awful beliefs. When you fight with them it makes them feel like they’re right. You end up forcing them to rationalize every shitty position.

Almost nobody posts on the internet trying to challenge and reconsider their beliefs, so it’s not like you’re going to change their mind anyway.

I mean that’s what I think, at least

Sure, lib

And yet nobody minds the aggression of capitalism and the right on anybody other than well off cishet white men 🤔

Really? NOBODY minds that? I can’t be pro-LGBTQIA without believing that any possible system except strict communism will work? You’re talking black & white thinking, the same as the anti-LGBTQ extremists. There are miles of Left, even far left, that aren’t Authoritarian Communism (that isn’t authoritarianism but does involve Dictatorship of the Proletariat and the exertion of authority. I was fucking THERE, marching there, when they legalized gay marriage in my state, one of the first in my country. I had a good friend be in the first 50 gay marriages in my state. Does it not count if I’m not a Tankie? All my friends who were out there risking their safety against the Catholic alt-right violence in my state didn’t count?

Look, you touched a nerve here, and I’m trying to take a breath. Maybe I misread you. Are you genuinely trying to say that you can’t oppose far-right violence without being a Communist? Or (perhaps just as bad) are you trying to say that if I’m not ok with violence against queer and transgender individuals that I need to be ok with violence against all liberals?

And I’d like to quantify that I got hit this morning with a dozen replies putting me in the “liberal them” pile, basically agreeing that if I don’t strongly support violence against the non-Communist supermajority, I’m a liberal and have no right to call myself a leftist. I hate the tearing down of the pacifist Left I keep seeing.

My problem is with people who exploit the labor of others for profit. No billionaire earns that last zero without causing harm

I’m mostly on board with you. But I’d like to cite “Notch” (of Minecraft) as an example of someone who earns the last zero without causing harm. Pure fucking luck? Sure. Should be part of a society that will redistribute his wealth? Definitely. Perpetuating violence for profit? I dunno what he’s doing now, but he wasn’t when he got that billion.

The thing is, you can’t participate in capitalism without either extreme ignorance or at least a little complacency towards that violence.

As a demsoc, my whole position is described by stopping the violence from within. There are parts of capitalism that are palatable, though it will inevitably end up in a horrible state if left to stagnate. But if I had to choose between universal healthcare and welfare for all and a violent revolution that fewer than 10% of people actually want, I think the former is a better option. And despite me having a lot of the same goals as the groups seeking that revolution, they still terrify me.

You exist in this system, you’re a part of it. You’re either ok with others doing violence on your behalf so you can have a bit of chocolate in your breakfast croissant, or you aren’t.

Please understand that this terrifies me. The black & white no-middle-ground thinking is the foundation of so many atrocities. That idea that you cannot improve capitalism, or that a “better capitalism” is still identical to “others doing violence on your behalf so you can have a bit of chocolate” is the kind of madness that leads to authoritarian regimes. I’m against capitalism in general. I’m also against a smallish number of people with guns replacing capitalism with something else.

I don’t see a peaceful remedy to this problem.

Can you acknowledge that a state that over 90% of humans would be happy with is still within “the problem” for you? If not, please understand that THIS is why most people incorrectly batch Communism with Fascism. If so, please understand why you having a problem is the problem and you need to learn to differentiate between the Bidens and the Trumps. Biden is “the other side”. Trump is satan.

We can talk about theory, about “yeah just organize and vote” until we’re blue in the face but the reality is that system is actively rigged against us.

Let me be clear about this. I’m part of the same category batched as “progressives and leftists”. WE represent about 9% of the population in my home country. That part is unfortunately Democracy working as designed. Not rigged. WE should represent a larger percent of the population, but unlike Billionaires and Church Leaders, we can’t seem to find common ground between Far Left V1 and Far Left V2.

But you’re right. With less than 6% of people in your country supporting your particular views, voting is not the answer. But, IMO, neither is violence. If 6% of the country manages a coup, I will not be happy no matter how much of their views I agree with. Because that’s an authoritarian regime.

We are actively rocketing towards a very bleak future and every passing day without cataclysmic change only pushes it down the line. And every day we push it back, it increases in magnitude.

Everything you say here I agree with. But if we can’t get the support for “very bleak future” under 90%, then you’ve failed even if you temporarily succeed.

So frankly, if someone is going to commit violence on my behalf, I’d rather it be directed at the problem than directed at my peers in the working class, wherever they may be.

My wife’s best friend is Petite Bourgeoisie, she owns a breakfast diner near the local project. She makes less than her workers in all but the most perfect months. I have no problem with her. I have problem with anyone who will make her choose between surrendering her freedom not to answer to an ownership structure (even a communal ownership structure), or “going up against the wall”. Ironically, it is the part of me most sympathetic to the goals of communism that support her attempted independence from private ownership. I have, on many occasions, been told she would be in line for death or disenfranchisement. Do you understand my reservations? I PREFER an imperfect capitalism if that is the only alternative. And you might not have meant it, but you came across as saying that’s the only alternative, and by way of violence.

I’m not ok with the death penalty for serial killers and rapists, and I think the laws we have now (if they were enforced) cover for corruption.

I have a rule. No matter how shitty the rules, nobody should die for playing by them. Ex Post Facto protections are a hallmark of preventing justice from being another name for authoritarian persecution. Of all people, it tends to shock me that Communists struggle to see that when they are the first to back extreme versions of ACAB-attitudes.

I know rich people who are… just fucking rich and that’s it. Lottery, good job. Smart little investment. Most rich people don’t destroy lives directly for monetary gain. Is there an indirect effect between wealth distribution and suffering? SURE, but holding someone accountable by violence for something they indirectly effected when it was legal? I just can’t see it no matter how they frame it.

It’s like COVID opposition. When we didn’t have laws against their bullshit (COVID spreader parties?) it is unjust to now go back and pass a law to punish there behavior merely because it caused hundreds of thousands of extra death.

Nah the one that starts with an R

Funny because of the dozens, if not hundreds, of death threats I’ve gotten, practically all of them come from zionists, NAFOs, keyboard nazis or the occasional trumpeteer.

What word would you prefer to someone who tells you to your face that they intend to “put you up against the wall” and then asks if you “know what that means, you fucking lib”?

Based

Communist

You don’t know the difference between a demsoc and a socdem. You’re not any kind of socialist, just a lib who likes the idea of being seen as leftist.

Death threats are an inappropriate and disproportiate response but have you considered that it is because you’re more irritating to the left than you are to the right? Especially given how right wingers historically are massively more violent?

I get, and largely agree with you, but the lawns and mall jewelry stores is a bit of a stretch. The first thing that comes to mind for the lawns (in the context of the meme) is people not wanting to rake. Most people don’t look at a patch of grass and conflate it with it’s political underpinnings. And the jewelry store is just about overcoming the mild discomfort from a very minor break of social etiquette. The meme and the act itself aren’t consciously political.

Sure, if you think about them for a little bit, the implications become obvious. But these images aren’t meant to be thought provoking treatises on the nature of society; they’re quippy, topical jokes meant to make you blow a little air through your nose in amusement. Fwiw I’m not bothered by the amount of clearly political posts on Lemmy, this is the first place I’ve found political memes that are actually decent (for the most part). But they’re not for everyone and even people that do like them would like non-political content on occasion. It can be a bit of a pain to find that here

I haven’t been on this sub for a while. It was once my go-to for just memes.

If this is truly the top of recent week, the the sub has gone downhill in both moderation and content, which is sad to see.

Also thanks for proving my point. You somehow forced gardening into a political topic. A childhood prank into a political topic. We are truly master of politicing the most inane things.

The other topics I cannot say. Existing in a society is political. Breathing is political.

I just wish to see a place where a meme about gardening is met with conversation how things are for others. Ex: ‘This is how I do gardening in [location], I dream of having a nice field of [local species] to support the bees.’

And not have it devolve into political us-vs-them tribalism and hostilitites. Ex: ‘Those lawns are a product of American liberal colonialism! I hate you and you should feel ashamed!’

That these images are hosted on lemmygrad.ml is very telling and just supports the general feel that users interacting from there are just interacting to create hostility and dissonance.

Not everybody, sure, I had conversations that were pleasant. I even read Marx summarised work as a suggestion from one from the lemmygrad-instance. And someon corrected me on a misconception I had from it.

Edit: last but crossed out. Was stuck in primary response. I recognise that threads reviewed also has a lot of inate hostility for the ‘us’-camp. And hostility breeds hostility.