When we post to Beehaw communties the posts will become hosted exclusively on our lemmy.world instance and not interact with other instances.
Further info:
https://lemmy.world/comment/205763
https://beehaw.org/post/567170
I just found out about this and it’s very disheartening. I can see trolls being a valid problem but the solution is more mods. What beehaw did is very detrimental to the health of the fediverse, especially in the most crucial month. With two of the largest instances split from each other, it’ll be twice as hard to grow a critical mass of content.
I’m blocking all beehaw communities myself. I don’t want to contribute to a instance where the admins are selfish.
it’ll be twice as hard to grow a critical mass of content.
According to lemmy explorer, if you sort both by number of users and by active users, lemmy.world and lemmy.ml are the 2 biggest servers by a good amount.
Beehaw is 3rd, other servers are behind but many of them are still pretty new.
Even if Beehaw decides to stay on their own, there’s more than enough “critical mass” to keep an healthy flow of content.
With two of the largest instances split from each other
They’re not, there’s no block between lemmy.world and lemmy.ml.
A lot of recent lemmy.world users I’ve seen have claimed that they came from beehaw after being upset by the defederation and how they are running it.
Ah. Well a third of content is still blocked then.
Not necessarily, there are a couple of communities that were really big, but alternatives are already growing elsewhere to possibly replace them.
I think it will end with just little stuff being blocked, not important IMO.
yes, but it basically brings the fediverse as a whole a few steps backwards, during a time when having accessible content is the most crucial to the success of the fediverse.
What beehaw did is very detrimental to the health of the fediverse, especially in the most crucial month.
I don’t blame them though. They are running a really specific community with it’s own culture and it ended up getting disrupted and diluted by the influx of new users.
In a month everything will calm down and I hope they refederate again.
I blame them for not trying anything else.
This is like… Getting a flu and deciding to chop off their nose.
“We tried nothing, and we’re out of ideas.”
Personally, I like Beehaw. They’ve got a good thing going, so I hope they get moderation squared away and re-federate. But they de-federated at a critical time, and I think they’ll do themselves more harm than they’ll do the fediverse.
I suspect we’re going to see a lot of churn in the ‘verse in the coming days weeks and months. New instances will arise and disappear frequently. Eventually things will stabilize with most users on a few enduring servers, with new ones popping up less frequently than they do now.
Beehaw may be an early casualty of the churn. If so, they’ll provide an object lesson in how not to manage such transitions.
Tbh they recognize that it’s a major response, but they genuinely can’t try much else given the tools at their disposal.
Part of the fediverse is that each community operates according to their own rules, and while they can talk to other admins, they can’t force them into anything like reviewing registrations or the like.
they could have gotten more mods. That’s the temporary solution until better mod tools come along.
That’s maybe true. I say maybe, only because for instance-wide moderation (as I think they’d like), I don’t know if Lemmy has a position between Admin & Mod with that kind of capability.
For Beehaw, where they’re limiting community creation, I think they’re only able to do that by restricting it to the Admins, meaning adding more mods would also mean more admins in their case. If admin abilities in Lemmy are like in any other software I’m aware of, you wouldn’t really want to just dole that out to anyone, so I can see why it’s not so simple a matter for them with the kind of carefully moderated community their aiming for given the current tools.
that’s true, but for a community as restricted as beehaw wehre users can’t create new communities, even if there’s no such position as “instance-wide mod”, the admins can just add more mods to each community.
You’re right, I made myself wonder after writing that. Checked over there & found that they have done just that in some (maybe all?) of their communities.
Thanks for adding those links. It’s interesting to see both perspectives. I kind of agree with both sides to a degree, it’s unfortunate all around.
I don’t. The answer is for beehaw to bring on more admins and work through the increase of traffic.
Just as lemmy is catching on, beehaw throws a wrench in things and makes the experience worse and more confusing for people. It’s self centered and selfish. It’s not thinking about what’s best for lemmy as a whole.
Yeah, I left Beehaw. I understand what they’re trying to do, but I think they shouldn’t have tried to grow so much if they were intent on being such a walled garden. There was so much conversation on Reddit for people to come to Beehaw, and now the rug gets pulled out.
Beehaw almost reminds of Tildes in that regard. They want to be their own safe, insular community. That’s totally fine, but the fact that at first Beehaw seemed to want to grow and be a big part of the community before abruptly changing their mind is the frustrating part.
If they weren’t one of the largest instances OR if they were just that way from the beginning it would have been much more understandable and less frustrating.
I was super into their philosophy at the beginning, but this abrupt change is disappointing.
Could this be a temporary measure on their part until Lemmy adds better moderation tools or they can recruit more moderators to keep some sort of positive control?
You should see the laundry list of demands they have. They’re an admin team of 4 who grew their server to be the 3rd largest on lemmy, then decided it was too much work.
It’s so self-centered.
Yeah I hope it’s only temporary
As somebody who started with a Beehaw account (and still has it, since things may get reconciled down the road) I’m mainly annoyed at how it was just plopped suddenly on the community.
The Beehaw admins had a lengthy post full of vague allusions to bad behavior by .world members without specifics. I think a sensible first step would have been to contact .world admins and attempt a dialog to determine baseline behavior on both sides users. It might not have worked but the fact that it apparently never crossed the Beehaw admin’s minds tells me how they view others.
The second factor is the Beehaw admins have multiple huge posts about building a community. With the lack of concrete rules and the huge change defederation causes, it would have been more in line with their ethos to put up a poll for users or discussion thread before defederating to get community input.
Finally in the post regarding the defederation, anybody who voiced opposition or even skepticism of defederation was painted as part of the problem. A pattern with Beehaw admins I’ve noticed is that when people ask specifics on how they will apply being nice and post examples of contentious arguments that might happen, the admins say that even asking the question is a “self report” sign of not being a suitable member of the community.
If Beehaw admins see this post, I stand behind it, I just saw no sense in flaming arguments in their own thread which was clearly an after action review and not open to taking critical notes.
The second factor is the Beehaw admins have multiple huge posts about building a community. With the lack of concrete rules and the huge change defederation causes, it would have been more in line with their ethos to put up a poll for users or discussion thread before defederating to get community input.
Is there an easy way to poll people in an instance on Lemmy?
Finally in the post regarding the defederation, anybody who voiced opposition or even skepticism of defederation was painted as part of the problem. A pattern with Beehaw admins I’ve noticed is that when people ask specifics on how they will apply being nice and post examples of contentious arguments that might happen, the admins say that even asking the question is a “self report” sign of not being a suitable member of the community.
I missed that part
deleted by creator
Hypersensitivity turned hypertoxic from the sounds of it…
A safe place for the right narrative!
What about for people like me who are on a whole other instance (I’m on Rammy). We are federated with everybody, both Beehaw and Lemmy.World. if somebody from Lemmy.World posts on Beehaw, does that mean I still can’t see it?
AFAIK you won’t see them because you will get the posts from that community through its instance, Beehaw.
That’s how I understood the explanation from https://lemmy.world/comment/205763 as well.
We can still do that. However, the “true” version of those communities are the ones on beehaw, so our posts will not be shared to other instances via ActivityPub.
If you alternatively create your post on Rammy and Beeaw and Lemmy.world users reply, it’s Beehaw who suffers the most in that situation because they don’t see any content from lemmy.world users while all other instances see everything. You can read a specific example in that link under third instance communities.
This is why I think having your own instance is smart. I’ve been using each platform as “islands”.
Each instance has it’s own tab in my browser, and I exclusively sort by local. When I want to chime in, I reply to posts using Mastadon. Pretty easy if you don’t mind copy pasting links.
Sounds kinda complicated?
If I view a post in a beehaw community from a third instance that is federated with both lemmy.world and beehaw, will I see both?
Sadly no. Those other instances get their data from beehaw and since its defederated from lemmy.world the comments made from l.w never made it there
You should, yes.
Yay!
Unfortunately it’s wrong. When lemmy.world users interact with the beehaw communities they essentially create shadow copies only seen by lemmy.world since the data we send isn’t recieved by the main post on beehaw. A third instance only fetch post data from the main community which in this case would be beehaw.
Oh good to know!
This is why I think having your own instance is smart. I’ve been using each platform as “islands”.
Each instance has it’s own tab in my browser, and I exclusively sort by local. When I want to chime in, I reply to posts using Mastadon. Pretty easy if you don’t mind copy pasting links.
