Watch the full conversation here: https://youtube.com/live/OVl9FGe8fno?feature=shareChris, Marcelina, and Max join Katie to discuss the historic UAW strike. ...
There was a thread maybe a month back where we all took the test and everyone is “left libertarian,” because the entire design of this thing is ridiculous.
Ah, ok I think I see where some of your problems with this come from and where our disagreements come from.
You and many others see the political compass and the questions as one and the same. I’m seeing the compass square itself as a tool, the same way way I view the left-right political spectrum. The tool is distinct from any set of questions one might ask to locate an individual on the scale.
The fact that some horrible person or group came up with a tool doesn’t make that tool inherently useless. Now the questions they ask, sure, those are probably stupid and problematic.
Ignore the stupid questions and website and use the squares the same way you use the spectrum. Don’t throw the baby out with the bathwater.
Ok, please tell me the problems you have with the political compass disregarding the website and questions. If it’s so flawed, you should easily be able to point them out right?
I already have told you. Political economy is one thing not two separate axis. Promoting the opposite is promoting political illiteracy, which is the “tools” whole point. Its not educating its obfuscating.
I’d say your obfuscating by conflating politics and economics. Sure they are closely related and thus the X,Y graph, but they are not the same. Neither of us is the arbiter of truth so I guess we’ll have to agree to disagree here.
I’d say your obfuscating by conflating politics and economics
You could say that, but only because you’ve fundamentally bought in to a right wing framing through belief a right wing propaganda tool.
Neither of us is the arbiter of truth
Ok? Thats a complete thought terminating cliche. No one has to be the sole arbiter of truth to say things that are true about our material reality.
I didn’t invent the concept of political economy. If you think its obfuscation, take it up with the political theorists of the 17th and 18th centuries and the socialist theorists of the 19th who drew on their work.
I’m not inventing things and arbiting truth, im talking about actual theory and not propaganda models, that have clearly worked in your case.
Sure they are closely related and thus the X,Y graph, but they are not the same
This is the problem with the political compass, and its entire reason for existing. Its to decouple politics from economics and create a belief that some things are similar or related when they are not - a flattening of political understanding to render people illiterate.
The use of “authoritarianism” as an axis - a word that is not meaningfully definable - is only used to perpetuate the Cold War mythologies of communists being the same as nazis. Just like double genocide theory, this view of politics is ultimately nazi apologia.
On the reverse, it serves to legitimize “right libertarianism” by flattening peoples understanding to make it look like it has something in common with actual ideological traditions like anarchism. As a professed anarchist, you should abhor this flattening and equivocation and the model that promotes it. I’m not personally an anarchist, but i find it disgusting how they’ve sought legitimacy by trying to tie themselves to actual intellectual and political tendencies.
Fair argument, I disagree. Tools are for measuring things, disagreeing with something doesn’t mean it shouldn’t be learned about, measured, and viewed in context. If you have a better tool that contains virtually all positions without simply leaving out those you disagree with please show me.
Rad fash has completely broken yours. “Your rich powerful guy is evil, mine is righteous and we should kill you all if you don’t fall in line behind my guy” is what your ideology boils down to.
Your rich powerful guy is evil, mine is righteous and we should kill you all if you don’t fall in line behind my guy" is what your ideology boils down to.
When you totally understand Marxism-Leninism.
This is exactly what the political compass does to your brain
“Your rich powerful guy is evil, mine is righteous and we should kill you all if you don’t fall in line behind my guy” is what your ideology boils down to.
We aren’t the ones who support every NATO invasion and bombing campaign
How do you type this out without spotting the obvious absurdity, just what do you think the point of politics is?
There can be no conflation because politics and economics are inseparable, like how hardware and software are inseparable components of computerization
Every civilization has a mode of production that allows said civilization to reproduce itself, and that reproduction is implemented as a matter of political will shaped thru the realities of whatever specific mode defines the civilization, it’s not a “close relationship” that may or may not interact depending on some vacuum context, instead politics and economics are literal embodiments of each other that always interact in the physical world humans inhabit
I’m literally saying they’re interconnected systems, youre the one claiming economics and politics are seperable. Marxism is literally political economy, we don’t think they can be meaningfully separated.
Votes are earned.
Just to point out how bullshit it is.
There was a thread maybe a month back where we all took the test and everyone is “left libertarian,” because the entire design of this thing is ridiculous.
Ah, ok I think I see where some of your problems with this come from and where our disagreements come from.
You and many others see the political compass and the questions as one and the same. I’m seeing the compass square itself as a tool, the same way way I view the left-right political spectrum. The tool is distinct from any set of questions one might ask to locate an individual on the scale.
The fact that some horrible person or group came up with a tool doesn’t make that tool inherently useless. Now the questions they ask, sure, those are probably stupid and problematic.
Ignore the stupid questions and website and use the squares the same way you use the spectrum. Don’t throw the baby out with the bathwater.
There is no baby here, only bathwater
Ok, please tell me the problems you have with the political compass disregarding the website and questions. If it’s so flawed, you should easily be able to point them out right?
I already have told you. Political economy is one thing not two separate axis. Promoting the opposite is promoting political illiteracy, which is the “tools” whole point. Its not educating its obfuscating.
I’d say your obfuscating by conflating politics and economics. Sure they are closely related and thus the X,Y graph, but they are not the same. Neither of us is the arbiter of truth so I guess we’ll have to agree to disagree here.
You could say that, but only because you’ve fundamentally bought in to a right wing framing through belief a right wing propaganda tool.
Ok? Thats a complete thought terminating cliche. No one has to be the sole arbiter of truth to say things that are true about our material reality.
I didn’t invent the concept of political economy. If you think its obfuscation, take it up with the political theorists of the 17th and 18th centuries and the socialist theorists of the 19th who drew on their work.
I’m not inventing things and arbiting truth, im talking about actual theory and not propaganda models, that have clearly worked in your case.
This is the problem with the political compass, and its entire reason for existing. Its to decouple politics from economics and create a belief that some things are similar or related when they are not - a flattening of political understanding to render people illiterate.
The use of “authoritarianism” as an axis - a word that is not meaningfully definable - is only used to perpetuate the Cold War mythologies of communists being the same as nazis. Just like double genocide theory, this view of politics is ultimately nazi apologia.
On the reverse, it serves to legitimize “right libertarianism” by flattening peoples understanding to make it look like it has something in common with actual ideological traditions like anarchism. As a professed anarchist, you should abhor this flattening and equivocation and the model that promotes it. I’m not personally an anarchist, but i find it disgusting how they’ve sought legitimacy by trying to tie themselves to actual intellectual and political tendencies.
Fair argument, I disagree. Tools are for measuring things, disagreeing with something doesn’t mean it shouldn’t be learned about, measured, and viewed in context. If you have a better tool that contains virtually all positions without simply leaving out those you disagree with please show me.
I don’t use any tool. Politics is not a grid or a spectrum, and there is no point forcing one on it, unless you want to increase political illiteracy.
Reddit has completely broken your brain.
Rad fash has completely broken yours. “Your rich powerful guy is evil, mine is righteous and we should kill you all if you don’t fall in line behind my guy” is what your ideology boils down to.
When you totally understand Marxism-Leninism.
This is exactly what the political compass does to your brain
We aren’t the ones who support every NATO invasion and bombing campaign
‘Red fash’ isnt a thing you fucking baby, read a fucking book
I just wanna say, youre my favorite lemmitor around these parts, keep up the amazing posts
https://jewishcurrents.org/the-double-genocide-theory
How do you type this out without spotting the obvious absurdity, just what do you think the point of politics is?
There can be no conflation because politics and economics are inseparable, like how hardware and software are inseparable components of computerization
Every civilization has a mode of production that allows said civilization to reproduce itself, and that reproduction is implemented as a matter of political will shaped thru the realities of whatever specific mode defines the civilization, it’s not a “close relationship” that may or may not interact depending on some vacuum context, instead politics and economics are literal embodiments of each other that always interact in the physical world humans inhabit
Power
Yes, but power to do what?
Explain how you can affeft social issues without affecting class dynamics. Explain how you can affect class dynamics without affecting social issues.
Explain why you think class dynamics --> social issues is a one-way street. Change can and does flow both ways.
I’m literally saying they’re interconnected systems, youre the one claiming economics and politics are seperable. Marxism is literally political economy, we don’t think they can be meaningfully separated.