“In short, Detroit is drifting further and further from the starter car, while factories in China are specializing in it. Just don’t expect the latter to solve for the former anytime soon.”
There is a bit of union blaming in the article, but it is an overall good article. Basically import taxes, tariffs, and anti-Chinese political sentiment prevent us from having sub $20k EV car.
Beyond predictable. This is simply protectionism designed to artificially stifle competition since the US and EU cannot compete.
Not only that, they will fight to the death before they let anyone benefit from Chinese liberation from the oppressive tyranny of Western companies.
Expect to see this with phones, CPUs and GPUs and virtually every other relevant breakthrough technologies coming out of China that have the potential to somewhat alleviate the struggle of poverty.
As always, it’s just class war playing itself out. They will always try and cancel the future.
Here in the UK the chinese gpus are appearing. I noticed that the Colorful gpus are available in some places here, including ebay, and they’re CHEAP.
I noticed that the Colorful gpus are available in some places here, including ebay, and they’re CHEAP.
This is pretty cool. Definitely something to keep an eye on, since I want to upgrade.
I just expect that when 100% indigenous Chinese technologies fully surpass Western equivalents from Intel, AMD, Nvidia, that the West will go full Gandalf and not allow easy access for their populations.
Look here at sold listings on uk ebay:
Colorful 3060? £165 new
Colorful 4070ti? £600 - £650 new
If I head over to amazon to look up prices, a 4070ti is £800-900. These Chinese gpus are getting into the UK and are almost 33% cheaper than everything else. The quantity of them isn’t high because I assume these are individual imports some sellers are doing or something. But their price is no joke.
Those are still using Nvidia chips. The Moore threads GPUs are completely Chinese, and they’re not there yet, but they’re on the way.
Damn these are good prices. Definitely want!I want them to flood the market and force the price of everything else down to compete lmao
US: “How dare you (slur for asians) try to develop your economy? War on electronics it is!”
Also US: Gets its hitech sector washed over in few years
Is there some good material on protectionism from a Marxian perspective? I’m questioning my own views on the subject. If only the US was using protectionism as a measure to maintain high wages in its factories of internationally overpriced commodities, that’d be a pretty good thing, right? Similar to how China’s Great Firewall functions as a digital protectionist measure to foster a domestic tech industry that isn’t dominated by FAANG like how the internet developed in the rest of the periphery. But it seems like there’s a lot of nuances here, like how the West uses protectionism to maintain hegemony.
Is there some good material on protectionism from a Marxian perspective?
Unsure of this, but would also like to know if anyone does happen to have something.
If only the US was using protectionism as a measure to maintain high wages in its factories of internationally overpriced commodities, that’d be a pretty good thing, right?
It wouldn’t work long-term. They’d cut the workforce down to the minimum skeleton crew needed to run production and overwork those people. Plus, with China being more competitive in both quality and price, they’d be overtaking US equivalents regardless. US industry itself is dying, and it’s irreversible. The falling rate of profit demands lower quality for higher price tags, and the US hasn’t been investing into R&D on a level anywhere close to the Chinese, so they have no future in this race.
China’s Great Firewall functions as a digital protectionist measure to foster a domestic tech industry that isn’t dominated by FAANG like how the internet developed in the rest of the periphery.
Well, here’s the thing about the Great Firewall: Yes, indeed it was so they could foster a domestic tech industry, but it was also a strategic move to attain sovereignty in their information space and protect them from Western manipulation in China’s internal affairs. See this relatively short video here. It’s not so similar in that with EVs, people need reliable transportation to survive in the West as they have no high-speed rail networks. With the price of gas, auto repairs and maintenance always going up, these EVs could liberate working class people from dependence on much of the US’ fossil fuel and automaker giants, which the US absolutely will not tolerate.
The US demands a population as desperate as possible to reduce worker bargaining power, increase employer leverage, and maintain their monopolies.
But it seems like there’s a lot of nuances here, like how the West uses protectionism to maintain hegemony.
That’s entirely and always what this is about.
Right, exactly, thanks for this detailed explanation. I wrote the first point specifically because I saw how that contradicted the situation at hand, but it is what I previously believed about protectionism. Also thank you for the video, really captivating explanation there.
Right, exactly, thanks for this detailed explanation.
Of course.
I wrote the first point specifically because I saw how that contradicted the situation at hand, but it is what I previously believed about protectionism.
Yep, just wanted to reinforce your second thoughts on the matter as being valid.
Also thank you for the video, really captivating explanation there.
They had a story on the news about “Chinese electric cars going to waste! Inept Chinese government over produces electric cars!!!1!!”
Lmao can’t make this shit up.
I saw one but turns out it was those ride share startups going bankrupt and their fleet of hundreds of EVs needed to be stored somewhere as a result.
I find it amusing there’s an advert for the new Chevrolet that basically claims it’s designed as a “first new car”
Instead of a sensible Mirage or Accent sized sedan or hatchback, or an EV that could get the price bought down with government incentives, it’s a bloaty SUV that’s over twenty-six thousand dollars as pictured.
You can get cheap chinese micromobility vehicles though
For now. I expect NYC’s recent UL testing requirement for e-mobility batteries will be adopted by more US cities out of a combination of anti-China hysteria and the demographics involved.
To be fair, some of those batteries are sketchy as frig (looking at you gotway/begode)
Is there anything stopping Chinese companies from getting these certifications? Or are they just inherently unsafe and can’t get them?
There’s nothing stopping Chinese companies from getting them other than extra cost. And as they serve a global market rather than just the US, the loss of business might not be worth it to the Chinese companies, considering how large the domestic segment is. Like why bear all the extra cost of UL cert for the NY market (or even the US market) when you can continue selling to China, SEA, India, etc. There’s a CBA to be done there and I don’t imagine it results in these companies shelling out.
Makes sense, thanks for the explainer
Like what? You mean like one of those little changli truck bois that can only go like bicycle speeds?
Escooters, electric unicycles, ebikes, eskate, that kind of thing.
There are literally hundreds of videos on YouTube of people buying these cheap Chinese alternatives and I’ve yet to see one hold up to regular use. There’s one of an ebike catching on fire after applying the brakes downhill for like 100ft. There’s another where a dude bought one of these electric starter cars and drove it around town. It was falling apart as he drove and wouldn’t work after the second trip.
With the Chinese market being notoriously cluttered with cheap products that lack any sense of quality control and cut corners everywhere, it makes me wonder if the only well made products are the ones being produced for other companies outside of China.
I think huawei would have been a game changer in the west and could have heavily impacted the public opinion on this, buuuuut US govt wants exclusive rights on spying on their citizens instead. 🤷🏻♂️
There is an insane sampling bias there since youtubers want to make exactly that video so they will actively seek out the products that let them make that video. I’d further point out that the products actual Chinese people buy largely don’t have those problems.
I suppose you’re right, but I would think many people would be just as interested in quality products that are a cheaper alternative, perhaps more so than watching them fail. Product hype is a thing for a reason.
I can’t speak for the domestic Chinese products as I’ve never been there.
All I’m hearing is that you’re a credulous dumbass who gets all their info from youtube. There’s also 1000 youtube videos saying CHINA WILL COLLAPSE IM TEN MINUTES.
I’ve ridden my EUC literally over 9000 miles
That’s an insane amount of standing lol
What brand is it?
Inmotion
There’s also literally hundreds of videos on YouTube of Tesla’s falling apart and iPhone batteries bulging. A product working as intended doesn’t really get clicks.
Well, not that those aren’t useful in some capacity, there’s the question of hauling groceries and such home, not to mention we need protection from the elements with increasingly brutal summers, and also violent thunderstorms. There’s the question of these things being able to trek through deep snow too, to consider.
I guess you could just fit it with baskets and wear a big backpack… but honestly, how far down the hole do we have to go here?
Carbrain from a hexbear, for shame.
This one line is heavily assuming that the above poster lives in a urban area, meanwhile they could be someone like me who lives out in essentially a rural area. In my particular case I live in one of the many ‘rural cities’ (and one that’s doing “better” than a grand majority of them) the populate the US outside of your big cities.
Honestly it feels that rural areas just keep being a huge glaring blind spot for most everyone here.
Thank you for the provided resources. Many of the things I’ve been concerned about were addressed.
However, there’s something I want to clear up here.
Carbrain from a hexbear, for shame.
I’d like to know what your thought process was that caused you to start off with this, so I can address it.
I’m not the type that particularly likes car-centric planning and car-centric infrastructure. I’ve understood that walkable communities were much easier and less stressful, less expensive, and more efficient in saving on fuel costs and environmental impact for quite some time.
I simply have concerns, which should be understandable, and I want to resolve those concerns in good faith.
The thought process was essentially just “this is the type of post I’ve seen a thousand times from redditors and @lemm.ee users.”
Worries about things like groceries and snow are extremely common themes of car centric reaction post, and I’ve seen posts much like yours countless times both back on
and on the wider lemmy whenever I mention bicycles or electric micromobility.The biggest obstacle as an American who has lived in Europe that I see is our infrastructure. You can live comfortably fine your entire life without owning a vehicle in most of Europe. Public transportation isn’t disgusting and is on time. There are many many times more options for travel. But in Europe, they have the advantage of having civilizations living in the area for hundreds, even thousands of years in some spots. This causes the towns to become more compact as there is limited land available compared to the states. Major cities such as Chicago or New York could adopt something like this, but the vast majority of people don’t live in these cities. Instead the towns are expanded and vast in comparison. It’s not uncommon at all to work in a different town, have your kids go to school in a different town, etc.
I work in construction, I and most of the others in my area commute daily. I cannot take public transportation because 1. It doesn’t exist in any area nearby where I’ve worked. And 2. Even if it did, it doesn’t run at 4AM when I’m helping create the cluster of traffic on the highways. I was spending $1300/month in diesel to commute my Truck. I’ve since purchased a Tesla Long Range. While it is somewhat cheaper, it’s not a major difference, but more importantly I have to be extremely careful with my driving and charging. I have to make sure I charge every evening and if I only commute to and from work without additional stops, I’m looking at 20% charge left. This is on the long range model. On top of that, it’s almost half the price to charge from a supercharger than it is from Home due to the power companies having a monopoly. The battery isn’t supposed to be used on a supercharger daily, isn’t supposed to be charged more than 80% daily, and isn’t supposed to be drained to less than 20% daily. Degradation is a huge unforeseen problem in the market. Solar is ridiculously expensive and the majority of families aren’t homeowners.
I’m all for going electric and car free, but we aren’t going to be truly capable for another decade or two.
See, @sicklemode@hexbear.net this is the type of carbrain I thought you were.
Don’t be rude and don’t waste my time filing mod reports just because you don’t agree with something.
lol feel free to rebuttal all of my completely valid points instead of reverting to name calling. If you actually read the comment , it’s pretty clear I’m not but okay 🙄
How far do you live from work and why?
Today, 75 miles away. Yesterday was 88.
Because I work in the construction industry, so I must go where the job site is located
Ok I’m gonna start a struggle session here. Bikes aren’t practical in America atleast atm because:
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We’re not a perfectly flat glorified city state like the Netherlands
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Certain subcultures in the US will literally try to kill you with their car if they see you riding a bike on the road.
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Bikeseats are uncomfortable.
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Ebikes
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Kill them first
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Skill issue
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I mean, you have a point. Americna infrastructure is wildly hostile to bikes in most places. In my area bikes go on the sidewalk as a mater of course or someone will make it weird. So then you have deal with poorly maintained sidewalks.
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A sub-20k EV!? Good lord, sign me up.
The BYD Seagull is 73,800 yuan, or roughly $10,183
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So successful is Wuling’s Mini EV that not only are Chinese producers rapidly coming up with copycat cars
Even when writing an article about Chinese cars Wired accuses the Chinese of copying… the Chinese. This is your brain on liberalism.
Which is just competition in the marketplace, which I thought was a good thing to them. No surprise they can’t imagine anything other than a monopoly.
There is a bit of union blaming in the article
I really wanted to get a Chinese plug-in hybrid, but it’s impossible to get them approved to actually drive on US roads.
There has to be some loophole we can take advantage of. Do we need to put a big shitty spoiler in it so we can register it in one of those states that exist to launder tuned cars?
register it in one of those states that exist to launder tuned cars?
Can you elaborate?
I Googled it. Apparently it is common to register your car in Montana if it cannot be registered in your state. Which seems pretty cool to avoid otherwise reasonable regulations
At this rate I’m just going to get myself an electric moped and put a lightweight “car” frame around it so car-brained americans actually respect me on the road.
If they are anything like their shirts, I won’t be able to fit into one.
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