That’s also a different definition than what you said earlier. Earlier you said it was a choice only. Now you’re saying it’s something that can be internal and part of a person. Do you see why I’m having trouble having a conversation with you?
I get my morals from thinking about things - what I think does the best for the most people. Being homosexual hurts no one so it’s morally okay with me.
Where do you get yours from? It sounds like you just chose the simplest, easiest option instead of choosing to think about your own actions and the morals that guide them.
No I don’t know why you’re having trouble because you can’t seem to wrap your head around a very simple concept. That desires can developed, you don’t have to be born with it.
Being homosexual hurts no one so it’s morally okay with me.
That’s not true, HIV/AIDs and other STDs are significantly more likely to be contracted through homosexual activites. Which in turn, harms everyone in the broader society. Plus if their behaviors are normalized more people will likely engage in them as well.
I get my morals from thinking about things
How is that working out for you? You can’t claim to have all the answers and are still discovering and learning things so your beliefs now might not be the same 10 or 20 years later. Logic isn’t always rational. Because your logic can be different from my logic. You can have both sides to an argument where both have logical points to make. There is no ultimate answer in that case.
I get my morals and values from the Quran and the Prophetic teachings of Muhammad (ﷺ).
It sounds like you just chose the simplest, easiest option instead of choosing to think about your own actions and the morals that guide them.
I don’t blindly follow anything I read. The reason I chose to be a devout Muslim is because it was the only religion where their sacred text has been preserved from its inception due to factors like how hundreds of millions of Muslims have memorized the Quran by heart from the time of the Prophet (ﷺ) until today. Another factor is how Quranic manuscripts carbon date back to the time of the Prophet (ﷺ) as well. All other religions have different versions of their texts like the Bible, Torah, Vedas nor do they have any concrete evidence for their preservation.
Of course preservation does not mandate that it is from God but it is the first step to identifying what is man-made and what is divine and pushes us closer to finding the true religion and meaning/purpose in life.
I’m happy to go more in depth and explain further.
Being gay doesn’t mean you have HIV or AIDs. That’s just your bigotry showing.
You don’t blindly follow what you read, but you think being gay is wrong with no critical thought put into it… Lmfao, okay.
Yeah, your not going to prove your religion is real by saying a bunch of people believe it. That’s an appeal to popularity and is a logical fallacy. This is what I mean when I say you aren’t thinking of things critically. You’re repeating religious talking points that don’t actually give you support.
Just because a book is old doesn’t mean it’s true. Should Harry Potter be considered a historical document in 300 years? 400? How old does a book have to be for it to be considered fact? Just old enough for people to not know who actually wrote it right?
Wow it looks like you didn’t even bother to read my reply throughly.
Being gay doesn’t mean you have HIV or AIDs. That’s just your bigotry showing.
I never said being gay means you have HIV/AIDs, but you have a higher chance of getting HIV/AIDs through gay sex. That is scientifically a fact.
You don’t blindly follow what you read, but you think being gay is wrong with no critical thought put into it… Lmfao, okay.
I literally gave you points about how being gay is harmful for society. Laughing off my argument isn’t helping you here and only making you look like a fool.
Yeah, your not going to prove your religion is real by saying a bunch of people believe it. That’s an appeal to popularity and is a logical fallacy. This is what I mean when I say you aren’t thinking of things critically.
Again, didn’t read my reply. I’m talking about preservation. When did I ever say I believe in the Quran just because other people believe in it? The only one who isn’t critically thinking here is you as you can’t even process basic arguments.
You’re repeating religious talking points that don’t actually give you support.
Such as? I was talking preservation of sacred texts. That is the first step because if you can’t even prove your text is the same as it was in the original then everything you say is meaningless because no one has access to the original sources.
Just because a book is old doesn’t mean it’s true. Should Harry Potter be considered a historical document in 300 years? 400? How old does a book have to be for it to be considered fact? Just old enough for people to not know who actually wrote it right?
I never made this a point. Never once mentioned how old a text is either. Bible, Torah, Vedas are older than the Quran so wouldn’t I say that those texts are more true? All you’ve done so far is make straw man arguments because you have nothing to bring to the table. I advise you research more about religions and especially Islam because your lack of knowledge is really showing here.
Jesus Christ the projection you’re doing right now.
Literally just hand waving away what I said - no thinking, nothing from you.
I don’t care what your man made book says. I don’t care at all. It’s full of contradictions, it’s full of false statements, it’s full of garbage. Your belief in blatantly false things doesn’t give you authority over other people’s lives.
Even if it was all true, your God isn’t the good guy.
Literally just hand waving away what I said - no thinking, nothing from you.
Hand-waving? Name one thing I didn’t respond to. What you replied literally shows you have nothing of value to add. Just ad-hominem and bigotry. Ironic coming from you since you accuse me of bigotry. The only one projecting here is you.
I don’t care what your man made book says. I don’t care at all. It’s full of contradictions, it’s full of false statements, it’s full of garbage. Your belief in blatantly false things doesn’t give you authority over other people’s lives.
There’s really nothing I can do then. If you choose to remain ignorant and don’t care about the meaning of life and what will happen after die, then all I can do is hope Allah guides you.
Even if it was all true, your God isn’t the good guy.
I say “Don’t be homophobic” and you use your religion is an excuse - but I’m the bigoted one? Are you even paying attention to what you’re saying?
I care about what happens after I die…but I care about how I leave the world and hope I made it a better place. Not for my sake, but for everyone who is still alive. You care about what happens after you die because you care about your own spiritual being, not because of other. Which one of those two sounds more moral? Making the world a better place, or actively being hateful to protect your personal afterlife?
How would you describe the God you believe in? Everything I’ve heard is he is All loving, all powerful and all knowing. Is that correct?
I say “Don’t be homophobic” and you use your religion is an excuse - but I’m the bigoted one? Are you even paying attention to what you’re saying?
It is because you are saying to drop certain beliefs in the religion. If you have a “live and let live” attitude then you should also accept that not everyone uses western values to assess moral/immoral behavior. Being gay does have harm to society and that is not me being bigoted, I am just stating what the research shows here. More importantly, a Muslim has to submit to the wisdom and divine knowledge of Allah through the Quran. There might be things in it that don’t sit well with you but that doesn’t mean it’s wrong. It is because you don’t fully understand the bigger picture here and how something will benefit or harm society one way or another.
I care about what happens after I die…but I care about how I leave the world and hope I made it a better place. Not for my sake, but for everyone who is still alive. You care about what happens after you die because you care about your own spiritual being, not because of other. Which one of those two sounds more moral? Making the world a better place, or actively being hateful to protect your personal afterlife?
But what about yourself after you die? You may try to benefit the people you interact with but at the end of the day you are going to be gone from this world and the people a generation or two won’t remember you anymore. I’m not saying to not do good things, as Muslims we’re obliged to give charity, be kind to our neighbors, respect our parents, etc. But these actions are meaningless without the right intentions. We were created to worship Allah, that is our ultimate purpose. Allah created you, your family, your friends, this world, and the universe. Everything ultimately leads back to Him. So why would I not be grateful to my Lord and follow His commandments that will benefit me and the people in this life and the next?
How would you describe the God you believe in? Everything I’ve heard is he is All loving, all powerful and all knowing. Is that correct?
Yes that is all true. Those are His attributes but the most important thing to know about Allah is that He is One and Unique, Self-Sufficient, neither has a beginning nor end, and there is no one equal to Him. There are a lot of descriptions of Allah like The Most-Merciful, The Creator, The Providor, The Ultimate Judge, etc. You can find a list of His descriptions here: https://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/Names_of_God_in_Islam
I’m anti-theist, not atheist.
That’s also a different definition than what you said earlier. Earlier you said it was a choice only. Now you’re saying it’s something that can be internal and part of a person. Do you see why I’m having trouble having a conversation with you?
I get my morals from thinking about things - what I think does the best for the most people. Being homosexual hurts no one so it’s morally okay with me.
Where do you get yours from? It sounds like you just chose the simplest, easiest option instead of choosing to think about your own actions and the morals that guide them.
No I don’t know why you’re having trouble because you can’t seem to wrap your head around a very simple concept. That desires can developed, you don’t have to be born with it.
That’s not true, HIV/AIDs and other STDs are significantly more likely to be contracted through homosexual activites. Which in turn, harms everyone in the broader society. Plus if their behaviors are normalized more people will likely engage in them as well.
How is that working out for you? You can’t claim to have all the answers and are still discovering and learning things so your beliefs now might not be the same 10 or 20 years later. Logic isn’t always rational. Because your logic can be different from my logic. You can have both sides to an argument where both have logical points to make. There is no ultimate answer in that case.
I get my morals and values from the Quran and the Prophetic teachings of Muhammad (ﷺ).
I don’t blindly follow anything I read. The reason I chose to be a devout Muslim is because it was the only religion where their sacred text has been preserved from its inception due to factors like how hundreds of millions of Muslims have memorized the Quran by heart from the time of the Prophet (ﷺ) until today. Another factor is how Quranic manuscripts carbon date back to the time of the Prophet (ﷺ) as well. All other religions have different versions of their texts like the Bible, Torah, Vedas nor do they have any concrete evidence for their preservation.
Of course preservation does not mandate that it is from God but it is the first step to identifying what is man-made and what is divine and pushes us closer to finding the true religion and meaning/purpose in life.
I’m happy to go more in depth and explain further.
Being gay doesn’t mean you have HIV or AIDs. That’s just your bigotry showing.
You don’t blindly follow what you read, but you think being gay is wrong with no critical thought put into it… Lmfao, okay.
Yeah, your not going to prove your religion is real by saying a bunch of people believe it. That’s an appeal to popularity and is a logical fallacy. This is what I mean when I say you aren’t thinking of things critically. You’re repeating religious talking points that don’t actually give you support.
Just because a book is old doesn’t mean it’s true. Should Harry Potter be considered a historical document in 300 years? 400? How old does a book have to be for it to be considered fact? Just old enough for people to not know who actually wrote it right?
Wow it looks like you didn’t even bother to read my reply throughly.
I never said being gay means you have HIV/AIDs, but you have a higher chance of getting HIV/AIDs through gay sex. That is scientifically a fact.
I literally gave you points about how being gay is harmful for society. Laughing off my argument isn’t helping you here and only making you look like a fool.
Again, didn’t read my reply. I’m talking about preservation. When did I ever say I believe in the Quran just because other people believe in it? The only one who isn’t critically thinking here is you as you can’t even process basic arguments.
Such as? I was talking preservation of sacred texts. That is the first step because if you can’t even prove your text is the same as it was in the original then everything you say is meaningless because no one has access to the original sources.
I never made this a point. Never once mentioned how old a text is either. Bible, Torah, Vedas are older than the Quran so wouldn’t I say that those texts are more true? All you’ve done so far is make straw man arguments because you have nothing to bring to the table. I advise you research more about religions and especially Islam because your lack of knowledge is really showing here.
Jesus Christ the projection you’re doing right now.
Literally just hand waving away what I said - no thinking, nothing from you.
I don’t care what your man made book says. I don’t care at all. It’s full of contradictions, it’s full of false statements, it’s full of garbage. Your belief in blatantly false things doesn’t give you authority over other people’s lives.
Even if it was all true, your God isn’t the good guy.
Hand-waving? Name one thing I didn’t respond to. What you replied literally shows you have nothing of value to add. Just ad-hominem and bigotry. Ironic coming from you since you accuse me of bigotry. The only one projecting here is you.
There’s really nothing I can do then. If you choose to remain ignorant and don’t care about the meaning of life and what will happen after die, then all I can do is hope Allah guides you.
Care to explain how?
I say “Don’t be homophobic” and you use your religion is an excuse - but I’m the bigoted one? Are you even paying attention to what you’re saying?
I care about what happens after I die…but I care about how I leave the world and hope I made it a better place. Not for my sake, but for everyone who is still alive. You care about what happens after you die because you care about your own spiritual being, not because of other. Which one of those two sounds more moral? Making the world a better place, or actively being hateful to protect your personal afterlife?
How would you describe the God you believe in? Everything I’ve heard is he is All loving, all powerful and all knowing. Is that correct?
It is because you are saying to drop certain beliefs in the religion. If you have a “live and let live” attitude then you should also accept that not everyone uses western values to assess moral/immoral behavior. Being gay does have harm to society and that is not me being bigoted, I am just stating what the research shows here. More importantly, a Muslim has to submit to the wisdom and divine knowledge of Allah through the Quran. There might be things in it that don’t sit well with you but that doesn’t mean it’s wrong. It is because you don’t fully understand the bigger picture here and how something will benefit or harm society one way or another.
But what about yourself after you die? You may try to benefit the people you interact with but at the end of the day you are going to be gone from this world and the people a generation or two won’t remember you anymore. I’m not saying to not do good things, as Muslims we’re obliged to give charity, be kind to our neighbors, respect our parents, etc. But these actions are meaningless without the right intentions. We were created to worship Allah, that is our ultimate purpose. Allah created you, your family, your friends, this world, and the universe. Everything ultimately leads back to Him. So why would I not be grateful to my Lord and follow His commandments that will benefit me and the people in this life and the next?
Yes that is all true. Those are His attributes but the most important thing to know about Allah is that He is One and Unique, Self-Sufficient, neither has a beginning nor end, and there is no one equal to Him. There are a lot of descriptions of Allah like The Most-Merciful, The Creator, The Providor, The Ultimate Judge, etc. You can find a list of His descriptions here: https://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/Names_of_God_in_Islam
So he’s all good? Why did he create evil then?
If he didn’t and evil was created by human sin, then him being all powerful should be able to stop it. Why hasn’t he stopped evil?