Jesus Christ the projection you’re doing right now.
Literally just hand waving away what I said - no thinking, nothing from you.
I don’t care what your man made book says. I don’t care at all. It’s full of contradictions, it’s full of false statements, it’s full of garbage. Your belief in blatantly false things doesn’t give you authority over other people’s lives.
Even if it was all true, your God isn’t the good guy.
Literally just hand waving away what I said - no thinking, nothing from you.
Hand-waving? Name one thing I didn’t respond to. What you replied literally shows you have nothing of value to add. Just ad-hominem and bigotry. Ironic coming from you since you accuse me of bigotry. The only one projecting here is you.
I don’t care what your man made book says. I don’t care at all. It’s full of contradictions, it’s full of false statements, it’s full of garbage. Your belief in blatantly false things doesn’t give you authority over other people’s lives.
There’s really nothing I can do then. If you choose to remain ignorant and don’t care about the meaning of life and what will happen after die, then all I can do is hope Allah guides you.
Even if it was all true, your God isn’t the good guy.
I say “Don’t be homophobic” and you use your religion is an excuse - but I’m the bigoted one? Are you even paying attention to what you’re saying?
I care about what happens after I die…but I care about how I leave the world and hope I made it a better place. Not for my sake, but for everyone who is still alive. You care about what happens after you die because you care about your own spiritual being, not because of other. Which one of those two sounds more moral? Making the world a better place, or actively being hateful to protect your personal afterlife?
How would you describe the God you believe in? Everything I’ve heard is he is All loving, all powerful and all knowing. Is that correct?
I say “Don’t be homophobic” and you use your religion is an excuse - but I’m the bigoted one? Are you even paying attention to what you’re saying?
It is because you are saying to drop certain beliefs in the religion. If you have a “live and let live” attitude then you should also accept that not everyone uses western values to assess moral/immoral behavior. Being gay does have harm to society and that is not me being bigoted, I am just stating what the research shows here. More importantly, a Muslim has to submit to the wisdom and divine knowledge of Allah through the Quran. There might be things in it that don’t sit well with you but that doesn’t mean it’s wrong. It is because you don’t fully understand the bigger picture here and how something will benefit or harm society one way or another.
I care about what happens after I die…but I care about how I leave the world and hope I made it a better place. Not for my sake, but for everyone who is still alive. You care about what happens after you die because you care about your own spiritual being, not because of other. Which one of those two sounds more moral? Making the world a better place, or actively being hateful to protect your personal afterlife?
But what about yourself after you die? You may try to benefit the people you interact with but at the end of the day you are going to be gone from this world and the people a generation or two won’t remember you anymore. I’m not saying to not do good things, as Muslims we’re obliged to give charity, be kind to our neighbors, respect our parents, etc. But these actions are meaningless without the right intentions. We were created to worship Allah, that is our ultimate purpose. Allah created you, your family, your friends, this world, and the universe. Everything ultimately leads back to Him. So why would I not be grateful to my Lord and follow His commandments that will benefit me and the people in this life and the next?
How would you describe the God you believe in? Everything I’ve heard is he is All loving, all powerful and all knowing. Is that correct?
Yes that is all true. Those are His attributes but the most important thing to know about Allah is that He is One and Unique, Self-Sufficient, neither has a beginning nor end, and there is no one equal to Him. There are a lot of descriptions of Allah like The Most-Merciful, The Creator, The Providor, The Ultimate Judge, etc. You can find a list of His descriptions here: https://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/Names_of_God_in_Islam
What is your standard for what is good and evil? Obviously, I can make the general assumption that murder, theft, rape, poverty, suffering, death, etc. are evil but where do you derive these things from? Saying there is good and evil implies there is an objective standard for that. But in anti-theism, there isn’t one. The same can be said about human rights, the idea of human rights stems from the belief that all humans were created equal from a creator. Which goes against the idea of anti-theism in the first place because there is no creator in that world view. I’m surprised not all atheists/anti-theists are not nihilistic because that is what you ultimately reach if you take things to their logical conclusion.
To answer your question, Allah knows best. Life is a test and it will be filled with trials and tribulations. You will face difficulties in life and how you approach these difficulties determines your rank in the sight of Allah. Allah has the bigger picture here and we only know a tiny fraction of what He has revealed to us. No one can say exactly why, all we can give are reasons to the best of our ability. But ultimately, Allah is All-Knowing and All-Wise so whatever He has created has wisdom behind it which we are not necessarily aware of.
If he didn’t and evil was created by human sin, then him being all powerful should be able to stop it. Why hasn’t he stopped evil?
Allah gives free will to human beings. They can choose to believe and follow the laws of Allah or disbelieve and do as they please. In the end, all of creation will be judged on the Day of Judgement. Every single deed someone has done in this world will be for or against them. All the evil someone may have done, they will be held accountable for it and dealt with accordingly. The victim of these evils will be rewarded and compensated for their patience and forbearance in this world. There will be no injustice on that day.
You’re presupposing that a creator is needed for morals. Why?
You’re presupposing that there needs to be an objective standard for morals and good and evil. Why?
If God knows all, why does he need a test?
Why do a Judgement Day if he knows all? Why wait?
I have a feeling a majority of your answers are going to be something like: “He works in mysterious ways. He knows things we don’t.”
But wouldn’t an all loving, all knowing, all powerful being tell us why? I don’t let my daughter walk into traffic to test her, to see if she will do the right thing. It would be unloving of me to let her get hurt. But when God gives someone a painful illness, that’s not love.
You’re presupposing that a creator is needed for morals. Why?
Yes because who are we to say what is good and what is not? If there no creator thenvevery person, every society would had different standards for morality.
You’re presupposing that there needs to be an objective standard for morals and good and evil. Why?
Yes, because then we wouldn’t be bickering about whether homosexuality is evil or not. If we all have different standards for morality, then are you supposing each person should just act upon what they believe is moral or not?
If God knows all, why does he need a test?
Again Allah knows best. But in the Quran He mentions that He created life and death to test which of you is best in deed. He also mentions that do you think you will enter Paradise before Allah tests you?
This question about why man-kind was created is even posed by the Angels of Allah.
And (remember) when your Lord said to the angels: “Verily, I am going to place (mankind) generations after generations on earth.” They said: “Will You place therein those who will make mischief therein and shed blood, - while we glorify You with praises and thanks and sanctify You.” He (Allâh) said: “I know that which you do not know.”
Why do a Judgement Day if he knows all? Why wait?
Mentioned before, to test those who are best in deed. Paradise is given to whoever Allah wishes but it is those that earned the pleasure of Allah that are most deserving of it.
I have a feeling a majority of your answers are going to be something like: “He works in mysterious ways. He knows things we don’t.”
Well yes, since Allah is All-Knowing and All-Powerful, how can you judge Allah when you don’t know much about Him? Since He is All-Knowing, All-Wise, All-Just then you know whatever He does is in accordance to His attributes. It’s us that don’t get the picture here. We only know the pixel. A small fraction.
But wouldn’t an all loving, all knowing, all powerful being tell us why? I don’t let my daughter walk into traffic to test her, to see if she will do the right thing. It would be unloving of me to let her get hurt. But when God gives someone a painful illness, that’s not love.
Some calmaties and tests are there to save you from an even bigger calamity. Trials and tribulations also purify you, increase your faith, and bearing through them with patience will forgives your sins. Allah tests people differently according to their circumstances and will never test you with something you could not bear through. Also just because you are tested with difficulties does not mean that Allah hates you and vice-versa.
What do you mean who are we to say what is good or not? That’s presupposing that God exists without any support.
Your using circular reasoning. You can’t say “Obviously he exist because we’re having a conversation about his ethics.” That isn’t support. That isn’t anything.
Unicorns are important for the ecosystem. There, now that I’ve stated that - unicorns exist by that same logic.
You can’t use your religious book to support your idea. That again is presupposing the book is true before any support has been given. Again, that’s basically me saying “Harry Potter is a book about wizards - that must mean Hogwarts is real.” Just because a book says something doesn’tean it’s true without any other support.
Quotes from your religious book mean nothing to me and give no support for your point.
I can judge him based on his actions. You claim everything is by his design. I’m going to base him off that. Why does he torture children in painful ways? Why does he allow abuse? Why does he allow terrible things to happen? He can’t be all good, all powerful and all know and allow that, and have that part of his divine plan. A good God wouldn’t allow that.
Why didn’t he create us in a way that understands? Was he not powerful enough to communicate it to us? There’s no point in giving people a test that is unsolvable. He already knows everyone’s true heart right? Then he already knows the results of the test before he even gives it. Meaning he created people just to be damned, knowing they could never pass his tests.
Jesus Christ the projection you’re doing right now.
Literally just hand waving away what I said - no thinking, nothing from you.
I don’t care what your man made book says. I don’t care at all. It’s full of contradictions, it’s full of false statements, it’s full of garbage. Your belief in blatantly false things doesn’t give you authority over other people’s lives.
Even if it was all true, your God isn’t the good guy.
Hand-waving? Name one thing I didn’t respond to. What you replied literally shows you have nothing of value to add. Just ad-hominem and bigotry. Ironic coming from you since you accuse me of bigotry. The only one projecting here is you.
There’s really nothing I can do then. If you choose to remain ignorant and don’t care about the meaning of life and what will happen after die, then all I can do is hope Allah guides you.
Care to explain how?
I say “Don’t be homophobic” and you use your religion is an excuse - but I’m the bigoted one? Are you even paying attention to what you’re saying?
I care about what happens after I die…but I care about how I leave the world and hope I made it a better place. Not for my sake, but for everyone who is still alive. You care about what happens after you die because you care about your own spiritual being, not because of other. Which one of those two sounds more moral? Making the world a better place, or actively being hateful to protect your personal afterlife?
How would you describe the God you believe in? Everything I’ve heard is he is All loving, all powerful and all knowing. Is that correct?
It is because you are saying to drop certain beliefs in the religion. If you have a “live and let live” attitude then you should also accept that not everyone uses western values to assess moral/immoral behavior. Being gay does have harm to society and that is not me being bigoted, I am just stating what the research shows here. More importantly, a Muslim has to submit to the wisdom and divine knowledge of Allah through the Quran. There might be things in it that don’t sit well with you but that doesn’t mean it’s wrong. It is because you don’t fully understand the bigger picture here and how something will benefit or harm society one way or another.
But what about yourself after you die? You may try to benefit the people you interact with but at the end of the day you are going to be gone from this world and the people a generation or two won’t remember you anymore. I’m not saying to not do good things, as Muslims we’re obliged to give charity, be kind to our neighbors, respect our parents, etc. But these actions are meaningless without the right intentions. We were created to worship Allah, that is our ultimate purpose. Allah created you, your family, your friends, this world, and the universe. Everything ultimately leads back to Him. So why would I not be grateful to my Lord and follow His commandments that will benefit me and the people in this life and the next?
Yes that is all true. Those are His attributes but the most important thing to know about Allah is that He is One and Unique, Self-Sufficient, neither has a beginning nor end, and there is no one equal to Him. There are a lot of descriptions of Allah like The Most-Merciful, The Creator, The Providor, The Ultimate Judge, etc. You can find a list of His descriptions here: https://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/Names_of_God_in_Islam
So he’s all good? Why did he create evil then?
If he didn’t and evil was created by human sin, then him being all powerful should be able to stop it. Why hasn’t he stopped evil?
What is your standard for what is good and evil? Obviously, I can make the general assumption that murder, theft, rape, poverty, suffering, death, etc. are evil but where do you derive these things from? Saying there is good and evil implies there is an objective standard for that. But in anti-theism, there isn’t one. The same can be said about human rights, the idea of human rights stems from the belief that all humans were created equal from a creator. Which goes against the idea of anti-theism in the first place because there is no creator in that world view. I’m surprised not all atheists/anti-theists are not nihilistic because that is what you ultimately reach if you take things to their logical conclusion.
To answer your question, Allah knows best. Life is a test and it will be filled with trials and tribulations. You will face difficulties in life and how you approach these difficulties determines your rank in the sight of Allah. Allah has the bigger picture here and we only know a tiny fraction of what He has revealed to us. No one can say exactly why, all we can give are reasons to the best of our ability. But ultimately, Allah is All-Knowing and All-Wise so whatever He has created has wisdom behind it which we are not necessarily aware of.
Allah gives free will to human beings. They can choose to believe and follow the laws of Allah or disbelieve and do as they please. In the end, all of creation will be judged on the Day of Judgement. Every single deed someone has done in this world will be for or against them. All the evil someone may have done, they will be held accountable for it and dealt with accordingly. The victim of these evils will be rewarded and compensated for their patience and forbearance in this world. There will be no injustice on that day.
You’re presupposing that a creator is needed for morals. Why?
You’re presupposing that there needs to be an objective standard for morals and good and evil. Why?
If God knows all, why does he need a test?
Why do a Judgement Day if he knows all? Why wait?
I have a feeling a majority of your answers are going to be something like: “He works in mysterious ways. He knows things we don’t.”
But wouldn’t an all loving, all knowing, all powerful being tell us why? I don’t let my daughter walk into traffic to test her, to see if she will do the right thing. It would be unloving of me to let her get hurt. But when God gives someone a painful illness, that’s not love.
Yes because who are we to say what is good and what is not? If there no creator thenvevery person, every society would had different standards for morality.
Yes, because then we wouldn’t be bickering about whether homosexuality is evil or not. If we all have different standards for morality, then are you supposing each person should just act upon what they believe is moral or not?
Again Allah knows best. But in the Quran He mentions that He created life and death to test which of you is best in deed. He also mentions that do you think you will enter Paradise before Allah tests you?
This question about why man-kind was created is even posed by the Angels of Allah.
Quran - Al-Baqarah 2:30
وَإِذْ قَالَ رَبُّكَ لِلْمَلَٰٓئِكَةِ إِنِّى جَاعِلٌ فِى ٱلْأَرْضِ خَلِيفَةًۖ قَالُوٓا۟ أَتَجْعَلُ فِيهَا مَن يُفْسِدُ فِيهَا وَيَسْفِكُ ٱلدِّمَآءَ وَنَحْنُ نُسَبِّحُ بِحَمْدِكَ وَنُقَدِّسُ لَكَۖ قَالَ إِنِّىٓ أَعْلَمُ مَا لَا تَعْلَمُونَ
English - Mohsin Khan/Taqi-ud-Din al-Hilali
And (remember) when your Lord said to the angels: “Verily, I am going to place (mankind) generations after generations on earth.” They said: “Will You place therein those who will make mischief therein and shed blood, - while we glorify You with praises and thanks and sanctify You.” He (Allâh) said: “I know that which you do not know.”
Mentioned before, to test those who are best in deed. Paradise is given to whoever Allah wishes but it is those that earned the pleasure of Allah that are most deserving of it.
Well yes, since Allah is All-Knowing and All-Powerful, how can you judge Allah when you don’t know much about Him? Since He is All-Knowing, All-Wise, All-Just then you know whatever He does is in accordance to His attributes. It’s us that don’t get the picture here. We only know the pixel. A small fraction.
Some calmaties and tests are there to save you from an even bigger calamity. Trials and tribulations also purify you, increase your faith, and bearing through them with patience will forgives your sins. Allah tests people differently according to their circumstances and will never test you with something you could not bear through. Also just because you are tested with difficulties does not mean that Allah hates you and vice-versa.
What do you mean who are we to say what is good or not? That’s presupposing that God exists without any support.
Your using circular reasoning. You can’t say “Obviously he exist because we’re having a conversation about his ethics.” That isn’t support. That isn’t anything.
Unicorns are important for the ecosystem. There, now that I’ve stated that - unicorns exist by that same logic.
You can’t use your religious book to support your idea. That again is presupposing the book is true before any support has been given. Again, that’s basically me saying “Harry Potter is a book about wizards - that must mean Hogwarts is real.” Just because a book says something doesn’tean it’s true without any other support.
Quotes from your religious book mean nothing to me and give no support for your point.
I can judge him based on his actions. You claim everything is by his design. I’m going to base him off that. Why does he torture children in painful ways? Why does he allow abuse? Why does he allow terrible things to happen? He can’t be all good, all powerful and all know and allow that, and have that part of his divine plan. A good God wouldn’t allow that.
Why didn’t he create us in a way that understands? Was he not powerful enough to communicate it to us? There’s no point in giving people a test that is unsolvable. He already knows everyone’s true heart right? Then he already knows the results of the test before he even gives it. Meaning he created people just to be damned, knowing they could never pass his tests.