Call this a hot take, but I don’t think we are a secular nation. We are de facto a Christian nation. This isn’t a good thing.
If you look at the laws we have, from no selling alcohol on Sunday (the Lord’s day), to anti-lgbtq legislation, to what our social conservatives draw upon for their arguments, it comes back to Christian fundamentalist politics.
If you are Muslim or Jewish, you are much more at risk of being the target of hate crimes than a Christian.
The separation of church and state is something we are still trying to do. Even Jimmy Carter, a deeply Christian man, pointed to Christian fundamentalism being the greatest threat to America.
“Give unto Caesar what is Caesar’s and give unto God what is God’s” -Mark 12:17 why do I need to use the Bible to say why we shouldn’t have to use the Bible
Hard disagree. Separation of church and state is right there. RIGHT THERE. in the constitution (I don’t mean literally of course, but you can FEEL it in there). And if you don’t believe me just ask any of the 46 consecutively Christian presidents we’ve had and they’ll tell you the same. The fact that 100% of them are Christian is clearly a coincidence (with #47 baking in the oven). I could easily flip a coin 46 times and have it land heads up every time.
Eh, if you define Christian as believing Jesus was the only son of god and the Messiah, then Thomas Jefferson was not one. He did believe in a god and Jesus’ teachings enough to have his own gospel put together, but did not believe in things like the resurrection. He thought the gospels as-given were full of garbage written by corrupted people.
Usually people call that deism, when you believe in a god, but think Jesus was just a dude.
Many of the “founding fathers”/early US leaders were deists. They were super skeptical of organized religion in any form, and most dismissed out of hand the superstition and social control associated with religion. The US revolution happened at the height of the Enlightenment.
i often wonder how many of them were just faking for the sake of the voters. I mean 100% a lot of them embellish it, anyone who actually thinks trump is that religious is either dumb or just in complete denial. If you could line all of them up with some truth serum and ask, i’d be really curious what you’d find. I wouldn’t be surprised if we had an atheist president at some point.
I think there needs to be an understanding on the difference between “de facto” and “de jure”. Just because something isn’t a law doesn’t mean it’s not followed.
Just because we consider ourselves a secular nation, just because the founding fathers considered us a secular nation, just because freedom of religion is written into the constitution, doesn’t make it so.
Christian fundamentalists have time and time again proved victorious over the separation of church and state. They have quietly, or more often quite explicitly, made sure their religion exerts power over us in our every day life.
It’s not like this hasn’t gone unnoticed though. There are plenty of supreme Court cases where they have sided against the Church citing the separation of church and state, but as we have seen recently with the supreme Court, there is no hard backstop to keep them from reversing past decisions to side with a Christian interpretation of the constitution.
Ultimately, they have made us a de facto Christian nation, and we need to stop it.
Previously the majority, now the minority- may want us to be a Christian nation but when it comes to the law and courts, we are not a Christian nation. Go tell a judge that a god or devil made you do something and see them laugh in your face.
It can be spun however you want to try but this is a secular nation and the people within it have rights from the Christian Talban (who aren’t even pious). We are a nation of laws. Your argument is dead in court. Even at a Burger King the boss would laugh at you. You’re drinking the FlavorAid
When can you buy alcohol in the state of Utah? Or even the great alcoholic city of Chicago (hint: not before 11am on the Lord’s day)
What phrase is printed on our money of who we trust?
Yes, a judge will call you out if you explicitly cite the Bible, so instead just cite a law that is based off of a biblical viewpoint of the world.
Again, these are not de jure laws. It is de facto. It’s the worst kept secret of our country. Convincing us otherwise is a brilliant play by y’All Qaeda.
That’s why I insist on saying it all the time: we are founded as a secular nation, and we need to start acting like it. Don’t let one of them claim otherwise.
The non-xtians are some of the least represented in this country and yet, it’s something like 1/3 of the country. It’s crazy.
Totally agree. The idea, and what we should be, is a secular nation. My take is that the christo-fascist takeover isn’t coming- it’s here. We are no longer on defense, we have to take back the country from these numbnuts.
When critical thinking is abandoned, America is doomed. Even the Saudis can’t maintain the fighter jets we sell them
You are attempting to push the narrative this is a Christian nation. It is not. Our secularism and diversity is what makes us different from the rest. Science deniers don’t understand, create or maintain advanced technology.
Yes, many of our population may identify as religious but they are not pious like the Jewish or Muslim population.
Even “Christian” is an umbrella tern to inflate their numbers because the number of warring Christian Sects is so large.
Yes, YallQaeda, con men and the AM DJ may be pushing this false narrative but so are YOU.
Edit: I’m done with this debate, they keep editing their comments. Typical deceitful BS. It’s obvious they live in the rust belt and not modern America.
Grammarly changes versus fundamental changes to the entire comment are quite different. Are you really spending your time stalking little ol’ me? I feel so special
Yes, all this is true, and that’s why we need to keep insisting that this country is a secular one. And xtian privilege needs to be stripped away. Something like 1/3 of Americans are non-xtian and yet we still have to put up with xtianity and xtians being put on a pedestal.
This country was founded a secular nation. All the xtians here keep trying to roll that back. Don’t give them an inch. Keep reminding them that this country was founded as a secular one. Not one American is compelled to give special privileges to them or their little book club.
Call this a hot take, but I don’t think we are a secular nation. We are de facto a Christian nation. This isn’t a good thing.
If you look at the laws we have, from no selling alcohol on Sunday (the Lord’s day), to anti-lgbtq legislation, to what our social conservatives draw upon for their arguments, it comes back to Christian fundamentalist politics.
If you are Muslim or Jewish, you are much more at risk of being the target of hate crimes than a Christian.
The separation of church and state is something we are still trying to do. Even Jimmy Carter, a deeply Christian man, pointed to Christian fundamentalism being the greatest threat to America.
“Give unto Caesar what is Caesar’s and give unto God what is God’s” -Mark 12:17 why do I need to use the Bible to say why we shouldn’t have to use the Bible
Hard disagree. Separation of church and state is right there. RIGHT THERE. in the constitution (I don’t mean literally of course, but you can FEEL it in there). And if you don’t believe me just ask any of the 46 consecutively Christian presidents we’ve had and they’ll tell you the same. The fact that 100% of them are Christian is clearly a coincidence (with #47 baking in the oven). I could easily flip a coin 46 times and have it land heads up every time.
Eh, if you define Christian as believing Jesus was the only son of god and the Messiah, then Thomas Jefferson was not one. He did believe in a god and Jesus’ teachings enough to have his own gospel put together, but did not believe in things like the resurrection. He thought the gospels as-given were full of garbage written by corrupted people.
Usually people call that deism, when you believe in a god, but think Jesus was just a dude.
Many of the “founding fathers”/early US leaders were deists. They were super skeptical of organized religion in any form, and most dismissed out of hand the superstition and social control associated with religion. The US revolution happened at the height of the Enlightenment.
i often wonder how many of them were just faking for the sake of the voters. I mean 100% a lot of them embellish it, anyone who actually thinks trump is that religious is either dumb or just in complete denial. If you could line all of them up with some truth serum and ask, i’d be really curious what you’d find. I wouldn’t be surprised if we had an atheist president at some point.
/s?
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Separation_of_church_and_state_in_the_United_States
I think there needs to be an understanding on the difference between “de facto” and “de jure”. Just because something isn’t a law doesn’t mean it’s not followed.
Just because we consider ourselves a secular nation, just because the founding fathers considered us a secular nation, just because freedom of religion is written into the constitution, doesn’t make it so.
Christian fundamentalists have time and time again proved victorious over the separation of church and state. They have quietly, or more often quite explicitly, made sure their religion exerts power over us in our every day life.
It’s not like this hasn’t gone unnoticed though. There are plenty of supreme Court cases where they have sided against the Church citing the separation of church and state, but as we have seen recently with the supreme Court, there is no hard backstop to keep them from reversing past decisions to side with a Christian interpretation of the constitution.
Ultimately, they have made us a de facto Christian nation, and we need to stop it.
Previously the majority, now the minority- may want us to be a Christian nation but when it comes to the law and courts, we are not a Christian nation. Go tell a judge that a god or devil made you do something and see them laugh in your face.
It can be spun however you want to try but this is a secular nation and the people within it have rights from the Christian Talban (who aren’t even pious). We are a nation of laws. Your argument is dead in court. Even at a Burger King the boss would laugh at you. You’re drinking the FlavorAid
Edit: comment keeps changing so I’m done
What do you call a tax on alcohol and cigarettes?
When can you buy alcohol in the state of Utah? Or even the great alcoholic city of Chicago (hint: not before 11am on the Lord’s day)
What phrase is printed on our money of who we trust?
Yes, a judge will call you out if you explicitly cite the Bible, so instead just cite a law that is based off of a biblical viewpoint of the world.
Again, these are not de jure laws. It is de facto. It’s the worst kept secret of our country. Convincing us otherwise is a brilliant play by y’All Qaeda.
That’s why I insist on saying it all the time: we are founded as a secular nation, and we need to start acting like it. Don’t let one of them claim otherwise.
The non-xtians are some of the least represented in this country and yet, it’s something like 1/3 of the country. It’s crazy.
Totally agree. The idea, and what we should be, is a secular nation. My take is that the christo-fascist takeover isn’t coming- it’s here. We are no longer on defense, we have to take back the country from these numbnuts.
A private business will follow whatever social norms it wants. Just as 24 hour liquor stores are busy at that time because Cash. Is. King.
The phrase on money was adopted fairly recently.
If you want to finish your alcohol quickly while fishing invite a Mormon. If you want to drink slow, invite two Mormons.
https://www.ksl.com/article/50517477/7-reasons-utah-residents-could-be-the-nations-biggest-suckers-for-fraud
https://stats.health.utah.gov/latest-news/databyte-opioid-prescriptions-and-er-overdose-trends-2017-2021/
When critical thinking is abandoned, America is doomed. Even the Saudis can’t maintain the fighter jets we sell them
You are attempting to push the narrative this is a Christian nation. It is not. Our secularism and diversity is what makes us different from the rest. Science deniers don’t understand, create or maintain advanced technology.
Yes, many of our population may identify as religious but they are not pious like the Jewish or Muslim population.
Even “Christian” is an umbrella tern to inflate their numbers because the number of warring Christian Sects is so large.
Yes, YallQaeda, con men and the AM DJ may be pushing this false narrative but so are YOU.
Edit: I’m done with this debate, they keep editing their comments. Typical deceitful BS. It’s obvious they live in the rust belt and not modern America.
Weren’t you just doing that a few days ago? Oh, the irony.
Grammarly changes versus fundamental changes to the entire comment are quite different. Are you really spending your time stalking little ol’ me? I feel so special
Don’t flatter yourself. I just saw you were complaining about something you yourself were doing. So don’t get mad.
Fair enough but no need to resort to name calling. Leave that for reddit.
Yes, all this is true, and that’s why we need to keep insisting that this country is a secular one. And xtian privilege needs to be stripped away. Something like 1/3 of Americans are non-xtian and yet we still have to put up with xtianity and xtians being put on a pedestal.
This country was founded a secular nation. All the xtians here keep trying to roll that back. Don’t give them an inch. Keep reminding them that this country was founded as a secular one. Not one American is compelled to give special privileges to them or their little book club.