Why were they “forced”? Poland was not part of their country, they had no reason to be forced into killing polish people. They decided to divide it and ally with the nazi.
The USSR was invited by the government of Afghanistan to defend it against US-funded Mujahideen. It did not “start” the war in Afghanistan in any sense of the word.
Lol, ahh yes Hafizullah Amin invited the spetznaz and kgb to the palace to assassinate him. You’re talking about Babrak Karmal, who invited them, but that was already after the soviets had deposed the last leader in storm-333.
The first Chechen War was a civil war within Russia between the government and separatists.
Lol, didn’t expect that amount of nationalistic language to come from a supposed leftist. Chechnya is only Russian by de jure, it’s a colonial holding from the Russian empire.
Again, it’s interesting to see you define “started the conflict”. Does a country not have a right to self determination? Didn’t Lenin say that the workers should be able to determine their own future? Is declaring independence from a historically abusive colonizer an act of war? Or is responding to a declaration of Independence with hard power when the war begins… you can’t have it both ways.
you fucking dumb antisemitic piece of shit, Poland was occupied by the Nazis and was massacring Jews and other minorities. the USSR intervened to protect people and give themeselves buffer space for the future Nazi invasion of russia. If you are aiding Nazis your ‘self determination’ is less than worthless. A shitload of Polish citizens sought refuge in the USSR and a shitload more fought on their side against the Nazi collaborators. Literally look at the citations of the WIkipedia page for the occupation of poland, they cite Tadeusz Piotrowski constantly, who on his own wikipedia page is said to be regurgitating Polish nationalist right wing propaganda.
Piotr Wróbel considers Piotrowski’s works to be “highly polemical and controversial”, similar to those by Richard C. Lukas and Marek Jan Chodakiewicz.[5] According to Ukrainian historian Andrii Bolianovskyi, Piotrowski’s studies on the Ukrainian-Polish ethnic conflicts rely unilaterally on the way they were conceived and presented by Polish right-wing politicians and the underground press during World War II.[6]
America hired and funded right wing and Nazi propaganda immediately after world war 2 to push “double genocide” narratives exactly like yours. You are ignorantly repeating debunked Nazi propaganda.
Poland was occupied by the Nazis and was massacring Jews and other minorities.
Yes, the ally of the Soviets were massacring Jews. Which the Soviet Union really didn’t care about. They were completely fine with having the nkvd massacre polish officers, which a significant part of were Jewish. The whole reason Poland has such a high Jewish population was because a lot of them had already fled pogroms in Germany and the very early Soviet Union.
If you are aiding Nazis your ‘self determination’ is less than worthless
Lol, except when It was the soviets?
“Germany and the Soviet Union entered an intricate trade pact on 11 February 1940 that was over four times larger than the one that the two countries had signed in August 1939.[219] The new trade pact helped Germany surmount a British blockade.[219] In the first year, Germany received one million tons of cereals, half-a-million tons of wheat, 900,000 tons of oil, 100,000 tons of cotton, 500,000 tons of phosphates and considerable amounts of other vital raw materials, along with the transit of one million tons of soybeans from Manchuria. Those and other supplies were being transported through Soviet and occupied Polish territories.[219] The Soviets were to receive a naval cruiser, the plans to the battleship Bismarck, heavy naval guns, other naval gear and 30 of Germany’s latest warplanes, including the Bf 109 and Bf 110 fighters and Ju 88 bomber.[219] The Soviets would also receive oil and electric equipment, locomotives, turbines, generators, diesel engines, ships, machine tools, and samples of German artillery, tanks, explosives, chemical-warfare equipment, and other items.[219]”
A shitload of Polish citizens sought refuge in the USSR and a shitload more fought on their side against the Nazi collaborators.
And tons were forcibly removed to gulags. It’s almost like there were multitudes of different opinions and causes in Poland at the time…
America hired and funded right wing and Nazi propaganda immediately after world war 2
And the soviets took in zero Nazis, or ever propagandized their partnership with the nazi?
“double genocide” narratives exactly like yours. You are ignorantly repeating debunked Nazi propaganda.
When did I say anything about a double genocide? My claim was that the soviets invaded Poland with their Nazi allies.
It’s hilarious that you say I’m repeating debunked propaganda when you won’t eve acknowledge that the soviets and nazi were once allies.
the fucking nazis were literally racist against slavic people, they did not take prisoners during their invasions, they sent them to death camps. to suggest that the soviets and the nazis were allies is patently absurd, their ideologies are diametrically opposed and you can do literally any cursory research to confirm the opinions of the people involved. literally read anything the nazis wrote about the soviets at the time, or anything the soviets wrote about the nazis. other users have already provided the context for those agreements, which you ignore. The soviets had tried to establish treaties with the allies before the molotov-ribbentrop pact, which they refused. it was an act of desperation to give the USSR time to establish military production factories and supply lines before the war. to spin that into an alliance is simply irresponsible historiography.
the fucking nazis were literally racist against slavic people, they did not take prisoners during their invasions, they sent them to death camps.
And…? The nazi part allied with plenty of people they thought to be subhuman.
suggest that the soviets and the nazis were allies is patently absurd
Lol, it’s basically historical fact? I literally sent you a list of war materials they exchanged. Hell, in order to get around ww1 era arms embargos the German government sent their military core to Soviet Russia to train on their tanks.
ideologies are diametrically opposed and you can do literally any cursory research to confirm the opinions of the people involved.
Hmmm, and that may be clue about how how much Stalin really cared about Marxist theory…
literally read anything the nazis wrote about the soviets at the time, or anything the soviets wrote about the nazis.
And yet, they still aided the nazi until operation Barbarossa.
other users have already provided the context for those agreements, which you ignore.
Because they were spouting historical revisionism, nothing forced the ussr into occupying Poland, or into alliance with the nazi. There was no historical rewrite of the invasion after Ww2, as the secret aspects of the non aggression pact weren’t made public until the fall of the Soviet Union in 89’.
The soviets had tried to establish treaties with the allies before the molotov-ribbentrop pact, which they refused.
“After the German occupation of Prague in March 1939 in violation of the Munich agreement, the Chamberlain government in Britain sought Soviet and French support for a Peace Front. The goal was to deter further German aggression by guaranteeing the independence of Poland and Romania. However, Stalin refused to pledge Soviet support for the guarantees unless Britain and France first concluded a military alliance with the Soviet Union. Although the British cabinet decided to seek such an alliance, the western negotiators in Moscow in August 1939 lacked urgency. The talks were conducted poorly and slowly by diplomats with little authority, such as William Strang, an assistant under-secretary. Stalin also insisted on British and French guarantees to Finland, the Baltic states, Poland and Romania against indirect German aggression.”
Oh yeah, he definitely really tried to save Poland…
to give the USSR time to establish military production factories and supply lines before the war.
Which is why Barbarossa was such a surprise? The soviets didn’t even start their build up until after the nazi invaded. They weren’t prepping for an invasion, they were consolidating their new territories.
alliance is simply irresponsible historiography.
when the Soviets stated in September that they must enter Poland to “protect” their ethnic Ukrainian and Belarusian brethren from Germany. Molotov later admitted to German officials that the excuse was necessary because the Kremlin could find no other pretext for the Soviet invasion.[217]
During the early months of the Pact, the Soviet foreign policy became critical of the Allies and more pro-German in turn. During the Fifth Session of the Supreme Soviet on 31 October 1939, Molotov analyzed the international situation, thus giving the direction for communist propaganda. According to Molotov, Germany had a legitimate interest in regaining its position as a great power, and the Allies had started an aggressive war in order to maintain the Versailles system.[218]
What exactly do you consider an alliance? So you think that you have to be best buds or something to materially support each other?
Why were they “forced”? Poland was not part of their country, they had no reason to be forced into killing polish people. They decided to divide it and ally with the nazi.
Lol, ahh yes Hafizullah Amin invited the spetznaz and kgb to the palace to assassinate him. You’re talking about Babrak Karmal, who invited them, but that was already after the soviets had deposed the last leader in storm-333.
Lol, didn’t expect that amount of nationalistic language to come from a supposed leftist. Chechnya is only Russian by de jure, it’s a colonial holding from the Russian empire.
Again, it’s interesting to see you define “started the conflict”. Does a country not have a right to self determination? Didn’t Lenin say that the workers should be able to determine their own future? Is declaring independence from a historically abusive colonizer an act of war? Or is responding to a declaration of Independence with hard power when the war begins… you can’t have it both ways.
you fucking dumb antisemitic piece of shit, Poland was occupied by the Nazis and was massacring Jews and other minorities. the USSR intervened to protect people and give themeselves buffer space for the future Nazi invasion of russia. If you are aiding Nazis your ‘self determination’ is less than worthless. A shitload of Polish citizens sought refuge in the USSR and a shitload more fought on their side against the Nazi collaborators. Literally look at the citations of the WIkipedia page for the occupation of poland, they cite Tadeusz Piotrowski constantly, who on his own wikipedia page is said to be regurgitating Polish nationalist right wing propaganda.
America hired and funded right wing and Nazi propaganda immediately after world war 2 to push “double genocide” narratives exactly like yours. You are ignorantly repeating debunked Nazi propaganda.
Yes, the ally of the Soviets were massacring Jews. Which the Soviet Union really didn’t care about. They were completely fine with having the nkvd massacre polish officers, which a significant part of were Jewish. The whole reason Poland has such a high Jewish population was because a lot of them had already fled pogroms in Germany and the very early Soviet Union.
Lol, except when It was the soviets?
“Germany and the Soviet Union entered an intricate trade pact on 11 February 1940 that was over four times larger than the one that the two countries had signed in August 1939.[219] The new trade pact helped Germany surmount a British blockade.[219] In the first year, Germany received one million tons of cereals, half-a-million tons of wheat, 900,000 tons of oil, 100,000 tons of cotton, 500,000 tons of phosphates and considerable amounts of other vital raw materials, along with the transit of one million tons of soybeans from Manchuria. Those and other supplies were being transported through Soviet and occupied Polish territories.[219] The Soviets were to receive a naval cruiser, the plans to the battleship Bismarck, heavy naval guns, other naval gear and 30 of Germany’s latest warplanes, including the Bf 109 and Bf 110 fighters and Ju 88 bomber.[219] The Soviets would also receive oil and electric equipment, locomotives, turbines, generators, diesel engines, ships, machine tools, and samples of German artillery, tanks, explosives, chemical-warfare equipment, and other items.[219]”
And tons were forcibly removed to gulags. It’s almost like there were multitudes of different opinions and causes in Poland at the time…
And the soviets took in zero Nazis, or ever propagandized their partnership with the nazi?
When did I say anything about a double genocide? My claim was that the soviets invaded Poland with their Nazi allies.
It’s hilarious that you say I’m repeating debunked propaganda when you won’t eve acknowledge that the soviets and nazi were once allies.
the fucking nazis were literally racist against slavic people, they did not take prisoners during their invasions, they sent them to death camps. to suggest that the soviets and the nazis were allies is patently absurd, their ideologies are diametrically opposed and you can do literally any cursory research to confirm the opinions of the people involved. literally read anything the nazis wrote about the soviets at the time, or anything the soviets wrote about the nazis. other users have already provided the context for those agreements, which you ignore. The soviets had tried to establish treaties with the allies before the molotov-ribbentrop pact, which they refused. it was an act of desperation to give the USSR time to establish military production factories and supply lines before the war. to spin that into an alliance is simply irresponsible historiography.
And…? The nazi part allied with plenty of people they thought to be subhuman.
Lol, it’s basically historical fact? I literally sent you a list of war materials they exchanged. Hell, in order to get around ww1 era arms embargos the German government sent their military core to Soviet Russia to train on their tanks.
Hmmm, and that may be clue about how how much Stalin really cared about Marxist theory…
And yet, they still aided the nazi until operation Barbarossa.
Because they were spouting historical revisionism, nothing forced the ussr into occupying Poland, or into alliance with the nazi. There was no historical rewrite of the invasion after Ww2, as the secret aspects of the non aggression pact weren’t made public until the fall of the Soviet Union in 89’.
“After the German occupation of Prague in March 1939 in violation of the Munich agreement, the Chamberlain government in Britain sought Soviet and French support for a Peace Front. The goal was to deter further German aggression by guaranteeing the independence of Poland and Romania. However, Stalin refused to pledge Soviet support for the guarantees unless Britain and France first concluded a military alliance with the Soviet Union. Although the British cabinet decided to seek such an alliance, the western negotiators in Moscow in August 1939 lacked urgency. The talks were conducted poorly and slowly by diplomats with little authority, such as William Strang, an assistant under-secretary. Stalin also insisted on British and French guarantees to Finland, the Baltic states, Poland and Romania against indirect German aggression.”
Oh yeah, he definitely really tried to save Poland…
Which is why Barbarossa was such a surprise? The soviets didn’t even start their build up until after the nazi invaded. They weren’t prepping for an invasion, they were consolidating their new territories.
when the Soviets stated in September that they must enter Poland to “protect” their ethnic Ukrainian and Belarusian brethren from Germany. Molotov later admitted to German officials that the excuse was necessary because the Kremlin could find no other pretext for the Soviet invasion.[217]
During the early months of the Pact, the Soviet foreign policy became critical of the Allies and more pro-German in turn. During the Fifth Session of the Supreme Soviet on 31 October 1939, Molotov analyzed the international situation, thus giving the direction for communist propaganda. According to Molotov, Germany had a legitimate interest in regaining its position as a great power, and the Allies had started an aggressive war in order to maintain the Versailles system.[218]
What exactly do you consider an alliance? So you think that you have to be best buds or something to materially support each other?