No no, we can measure plenty of things, there are many compelling reasons to believe what we are experiencing is real, or rather is reality. This is, again, something that could be thought of, much like the concept of God, but the evidence points to existence, well, existing. There isn’t any compelling reason to believe otherwise.
No reason to believe there are not, and also that is not true. We have many ways to take measurements, directly and indirectly, with sensors that far surpass out meager senses.
Correct! And also some sensors so powerful and accurate, we can do cool things such as indirectly verifying the existence of things we cannot perceive, such as certain particles, black holes, dark matter, and more.
While I appreciate your pedantry, I am only perceiving data. The imperceptible is still as such. At this point I’m not sure if you’re trying to prove something, or merely attain some nebulous linguistic “gotcha”. The entire “you can only perceive reality with your senses” statement you made was presumably to somehow call into question that reality is not able to be perceived in any other way. That doesn’t seem to be where you’re trying to go anymore.
Ah, upon review, you’re trying to claim there is no evidence for reality being measurable, to which I presented evidence, the fact that our senses are not the only implements that can measure reality, but you’re still trying to call that into question by somehow saying if we didn’t have senses, we couldn’t interpret the data? This is a tree falling in the woods sort of argument. Of course there is a sound still if no one is around to hear it. Just like how these instruments we’ve made can measure the world and universe with or without us interpreting the data.
Now if you want to get into a “Schrödinger’s data” sort of argument where the data doesn’t exist until we percieve it, that would be equally ridiculous.
I will also say, you may be leaning into some sort of solipsism, which is kind of stupid anyway, especially since the conversation here was about empirical statement.
You’ve been talking nonsense and I’ve been trying to demonstrate that to you. You say we can trust our senses, because our senses say there are instruments which can verify them. This is ridiculous. This is like trusting that a man can sell you London Bridge, because he says he’s personal friends with King George and King George can verify his story. You don’t get to meet King George, of course, you only have the man’s word that he’s involved at all. But you blindly trust him because he says he’s trustworthy. This is exactly the same as you blindly trusting your senses because they tell you they’re trustworthy.
You seem to have gotten impatient with failing to grasp this simple logic, and now seek to dismiss it by attacking me. To aid you, I give you my own views on the subject, in this thread: https://lemm.ee/comment/7537647
There you go. I am no solipsist, I am an antirealist. Now, before you proceed to attack my position, I ask that you seriously consider your own extraordinary claim that we can trust our senses simply because they tell us they’ve got proof.
There’s no evidence that reality is real.
No no, we can measure plenty of things, there are many compelling reasons to believe what we are experiencing is real, or rather is reality. This is, again, something that could be thought of, much like the concept of God, but the evidence points to existence, well, existing. There isn’t any compelling reason to believe otherwise.
The only way you can measure reality is with your senses, and you haven’t proven your senses are accurate.
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No reason to believe there are not, and also that is not true. We have many ways to take measurements, directly and indirectly, with sensors that far surpass out meager senses.
Wow, really? You’re saying we have a microscope that you don’t need to use your eyes to look through?
Correct! And also some sensors so powerful and accurate, we can do cool things such as indirectly verifying the existence of things we cannot perceive, such as certain particles, black holes, dark matter, and more.
Tell me about this magic microscope that you don’t read with your senses. How do you take the readings off it without looking at it?
While I appreciate your pedantry, I am only perceiving data. The imperceptible is still as such. At this point I’m not sure if you’re trying to prove something, or merely attain some nebulous linguistic “gotcha”. The entire “you can only perceive reality with your senses” statement you made was presumably to somehow call into question that reality is not able to be perceived in any other way. That doesn’t seem to be where you’re trying to go anymore.
Ah, upon review, you’re trying to claim there is no evidence for reality being measurable, to which I presented evidence, the fact that our senses are not the only implements that can measure reality, but you’re still trying to call that into question by somehow saying if we didn’t have senses, we couldn’t interpret the data? This is a tree falling in the woods sort of argument. Of course there is a sound still if no one is around to hear it. Just like how these instruments we’ve made can measure the world and universe with or without us interpreting the data.
Now if you want to get into a “Schrödinger’s data” sort of argument where the data doesn’t exist until we percieve it, that would be equally ridiculous.
I will also say, you may be leaning into some sort of solipsism, which is kind of stupid anyway, especially since the conversation here was about empirical statement.
You’ve been talking nonsense and I’ve been trying to demonstrate that to you. You say we can trust our senses, because our senses say there are instruments which can verify them. This is ridiculous. This is like trusting that a man can sell you London Bridge, because he says he’s personal friends with King George and King George can verify his story. You don’t get to meet King George, of course, you only have the man’s word that he’s involved at all. But you blindly trust him because he says he’s trustworthy. This is exactly the same as you blindly trusting your senses because they tell you they’re trustworthy.
You seem to have gotten impatient with failing to grasp this simple logic, and now seek to dismiss it by attacking me. To aid you, I give you my own views on the subject, in this thread: https://lemm.ee/comment/7537647
There you go. I am no solipsist, I am an antirealist. Now, before you proceed to attack my position, I ask that you seriously consider your own extraordinary claim that we can trust our senses simply because they tell us they’ve got proof.
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