Imagine a family member showing signs of a stroke and you’re twenty minutes outside of town. Are you really going to call for an ambulance and double the wait time before they’re in the ER? Check your privilege city boy.
Just so I understand, in the context that you are replying to the theme of the article
the family member is showing signs of a stroke. The ambulance is going to take some time. You’ve been drinking and are over the limit, but thats still the best choice? Drunkenly driving to the hospital?
The context of the quoted section of the article is about what an acceptable false positive rate would be, not about what situations drunk driving would be acceptable.
In Germany there is a maximum first response time (depending on the Bundesland) of 8 to 17 minutes. This is by law and it is regularly verified that those times are not exceeded. The timer starts the moment you call and ends when the medical staff arrives.
So yes, calling an ambulance that will be there in unter 20 minutes is the preferred way. They will also send an emergency doctor who can directly start working while driving back to the hospital.
To get that response rate in the United States, literally every single US citizen we have to work as a ambulance driver, and they still wouldn’t be enough
That sounds great for Germany, but what does that have to do with the US where this law is being mandated? The US isn’t like Germany in any way that matters to this discussion.
Not sure where you’re located, but in the US most ambulances aren’t based out of hospitals, usually there’s ambulance stations, or they’re attached to a fire company.
Now it’s a big country with a lot of different types of towns with their own unique situations, but there’s a lot of cases where your local ambulance company is going to be a lot closer to you than a hospital, which means they can make up the difference pretty easily with their sirens , and you start getting at least some level of treatment from EMTs or paramedics that much sooner.
Ehh, restricted to the capacities of an ambulance which is why they’re taking you to a hospital anyways.
Also, the 1-way trip the ambulance makes to your house could be done in a similar amount of time as the 1-way trip you take to the hospital. Then your real treatment can begin.
Ambulances almost never have a doctor onboard in the US
There are 2 main levels of EMS, Basic Life Support (BLS) and Advanced Life Support (ALS) There’s some additional sub-categories, and some things vary according to local regulations and such, bit I’m just giving a very general overview.
As a general rule BLS will be staffed by EMTs and ALS will have a paramedic.
Paramedics can start an IV, administer some more medications than an EMT can, and provide some other more advanced treatments, but they stop well short of what a doctor can do.
Not all ambulances are staffed to the ALS level, a lot of places have had a hard time keeping their EMS agencies fully staffed, I know in my area, in theory, all of our agencies can provide ALS service, but frequently some of them have to go BLS-only due to staffing issues. Because of this, some areas have started expanding the scope of what EMTs are able to do to make up for a lack of paramedics (though they also often face a lack of EMTs as well)
I’m sure that’s the same over here. But the situation in this discussion was that a family member shows signs of a stroke, in this case I don’t think they will send an ambulance only capable to provide BLS but hopefully one of those.
MSUs are really cool, and I hope we see more of them, but they’re relatively new, the first in the US hasn’t even been around for a decade, so they aren’t everywhere yet, as best as I can find, there’s only a couple dozen or so of them throughout the country right now. I actually work in a 911 dispatch center, we don’t have one in the area I work for (which is a pretty well-funded and equipped area) and they’re not even something I remember being covered in any of my trainings or certification classes (the certifications I have are from national organizations like APCO, so they cover a lot of stuff that often doesn’t apply to my area)
Ideally it should get an ALS unit, but sometimes you do just have to work with what’s available.
Also to be clear, I’m not saying not to call for an ambulance if someone’s having a stroke and drive them yourself or anything like that. Unless you happen to live really close to the hospital you’re still probably going to be better off even if you get stuck with a BLS ambulance, they have a better idea what they’re looking at than the average layperson and they’re probably going to get there safer than someone who’s freaking out because their passenger is having a stroke, doesn’t do anyone any good if you get into an accident on the way to the hospital, or if things take a turn for the worse and you end up having to pull over on the side of a highway and try to do CPR or something with traffic whizzing by you and have to wait for an ambulance anyway, not to mention the nightmare of trying to figure out where you are to send an ambulance (cell phone locations arent always super accurate)
Imagine a family member showing signs of a stroke and you’re twenty minutes outside of town. Are you really going to call for an ambulance and double the wait time before they’re in the ER? Check your privilege city boy.
Just so I understand, in the context that you are replying to the theme of the article
the family member is showing signs of a stroke. The ambulance is going to take some time. You’ve been drinking and are over the limit, but thats still the best choice? Drunkenly driving to the hospital?
The context of the quoted section of the article is about what an acceptable false positive rate would be, not about what situations drunk driving would be acceptable.
And as shown, no one shall believe there was a false positive. WCGW?
Hey genius, this is about false positives.
In Germany there is a maximum first response time (depending on the Bundesland) of 8 to 17 minutes. This is by law and it is regularly verified that those times are not exceeded. The timer starts the moment you call and ends when the medical staff arrives.
So yes, calling an ambulance that will be there in unter 20 minutes is the preferred way. They will also send an emergency doctor who can directly start working while driving back to the hospital.
This article is about the US, Dirk.
To get that response rate in the United States, literally every single US citizen we have to work as a ambulance driver, and they still wouldn’t be enough
That sounds great for Germany, but what does that have to do with the US where this law is being mandated? The US isn’t like Germany in any way that matters to this discussion.
Cool.
What’s the first response time in the US?
Also, the ambulance has to go from the hospital to your house and back to the hospital, which is slower than a 1 way trip even with their sirens.
Not sure where you’re located, but in the US most ambulances aren’t based out of hospitals, usually there’s ambulance stations, or they’re attached to a fire company.
Now it’s a big country with a lot of different types of towns with their own unique situations, but there’s a lot of cases where your local ambulance company is going to be a lot closer to you than a hospital, which means they can make up the difference pretty easily with their sirens , and you start getting at least some level of treatment from EMTs or paramedics that much sooner.
And it has a doctor on board. So the emergency treatment starts right at my house.
In the US, ambulances are staffed by medical technicians and have no connection to hospitals or doctors outside of delivering patients to them.
Ehh, restricted to the capacities of an ambulance which is why they’re taking you to a hospital anyways.
Also, the 1-way trip the ambulance makes to your house could be done in a similar amount of time as the 1-way trip you take to the hospital. Then your real treatment can begin.
Modern ambulances are rolling ICUs, though.
Sure they are.
Ambulances almost never have a doctor onboard in the US
There are 2 main levels of EMS, Basic Life Support (BLS) and Advanced Life Support (ALS) There’s some additional sub-categories, and some things vary according to local regulations and such, bit I’m just giving a very general overview.
As a general rule BLS will be staffed by EMTs and ALS will have a paramedic.
Paramedics can start an IV, administer some more medications than an EMT can, and provide some other more advanced treatments, but they stop well short of what a doctor can do.
Not all ambulances are staffed to the ALS level, a lot of places have had a hard time keeping their EMS agencies fully staffed, I know in my area, in theory, all of our agencies can provide ALS service, but frequently some of them have to go BLS-only due to staffing issues. Because of this, some areas have started expanding the scope of what EMTs are able to do to make up for a lack of paramedics (though they also often face a lack of EMTs as well)
I’m sure that’s the same over here. But the situation in this discussion was that a family member shows signs of a stroke, in this case I don’t think they will send an ambulance only capable to provide BLS but hopefully one of those.
MSUs are really cool, and I hope we see more of them, but they’re relatively new, the first in the US hasn’t even been around for a decade, so they aren’t everywhere yet, as best as I can find, there’s only a couple dozen or so of them throughout the country right now. I actually work in a 911 dispatch center, we don’t have one in the area I work for (which is a pretty well-funded and equipped area) and they’re not even something I remember being covered in any of my trainings or certification classes (the certifications I have are from national organizations like APCO, so they cover a lot of stuff that often doesn’t apply to my area)
Ideally it should get an ALS unit, but sometimes you do just have to work with what’s available.
Also to be clear, I’m not saying not to call for an ambulance if someone’s having a stroke and drive them yourself or anything like that. Unless you happen to live really close to the hospital you’re still probably going to be better off even if you get stuck with a BLS ambulance, they have a better idea what they’re looking at than the average layperson and they’re probably going to get there safer than someone who’s freaking out because their passenger is having a stroke, doesn’t do anyone any good if you get into an accident on the way to the hospital, or if things take a turn for the worse and you end up having to pull over on the side of a highway and try to do CPR or something with traffic whizzing by you and have to wait for an ambulance anyway, not to mention the nightmare of trying to figure out where you are to send an ambulance (cell phone locations arent always super accurate)