They would require psychiatrists, endocrinologists and medical ethicists to have roles in creating facility-wide gender-affirming care plans for patients of all ages. Patients under 21 would have to receive at least six months of mental health counseling before starting gender-affirming medication or surgery. Providers would be barred from referring minors to treatment elsewhere, such as clinics in other states.
I am fairly pro-transgender rights with some exceptions.
If anyone has read my prior post, I have always said a psychiatrist or endocrinologist should be involved with transgender people.
The law to me is a good thing. I don’t agree with the below 21, it should be 18.
I also don’t agree with the referring clause. That is good medicine to refer people to other doctors and sometimes they are outside your state.
We approve one million green cards every year. Its not difficult, its just rate limited.
Uh huh, according to boundless.com the process can take up to 3 years. For someone in distress and in need of medical care, how long of a wait list do you think is reasonable?
According to the article, there are not enough endocrinologists to go around, so this requirement effectively bottle-necks the process.
So here are my challenge questions to those who believe strongly in small government, individualism and a free market economy:
Why are legislators making decisions about people’s medical care and increasing bureaucracy, when this can be seen as an assault on individualism,and an attack on citizens freedom and liberty? Do lawmakers somehow know better than doctors? Might there be different decisions necessary for best care on a case by case basis?
if we believe Milton Friedman that the free market is the most efficient at doing everything, again why are legislators trying to artificially force the invisible hand of the market? It must be that American healthcare is already operating at peak efficiency so what gives?
How is it that, as a group of people who got super triggered about being forced to get a vaccination, angry about being discouraged from treating themselves with ivermectin and loudly insisting they can make their own choices about their own bodies, people can so easily turn around and approve such a plan as requiring 6 months of mental health counseling before receiving treatment that is proven to provide relief?
My questions point out that these provisions are not consistent with professed conservative thinking. There’s a word for people who say one thing but do something different. Still I think there’s another answer for this apparent disparity.
Here’s the answer: like with abortion, it has nothing to do with saving children or morality, it is about maintaining control and perpetuating hierarchy by denying rights and privileges to anyone who is not part of the in-group. Such efforts are always disguised as “concern for children” or" tradition" or “preserving our culture”.
The most effective mask used by those who want to keep control and conserve oppressive power structures is the Moral Panic. Whether it is rock-n-roll, drugs or the satanic panic of the 80’s its always the exaggerated and terrifying fear that some thing or group is somehow able to destroy all of human society and civilization. It gets played up in the media and someone says “there outta be a law!”
So let’s be real about this: neither feminism, the devil’s music nor marijuana were able to erode the morality of the nation. Gay marriage did not result in people marrying their cows or cars as was suggested in the 90’s The war on Christmas was never a thing. Trans people getting timely and effective health care are not going to cause an epidemic among America’s youth and make all the boys girls and all the girls boys who will chant critical race theory slogans and burn down every courthouse in the USA. Stop your hand-wringing.
For children. If given the wrong treatment, the child can have permanent side effects. The 6 month period is not for adults.
and it isn’t proven .That is why Europe has put new restrictions around it because the evidence is weak.
Seems reasonable. But then doctors seem pretty quick to diagnose and write prescriptions for ADHD, and a casual glance at WebMD tells me the long term risks include high blood pressure, seizures and irregular heartbeat. Seems bad, maybe kids with ADHD should have mandatory mental health counseling before getting these dangerous drugs. Does that sound overly cautious?
So then let me ask you why then does this small portion of the population with an uncommon condition deserve so much scrutiny, so much media attention, so much legislation?
Ask a conservative, who knows what’s best for a child? The parents, or the government? Ask any reasonable person, who should help parents make decisions about a child’s treatment, a healthcare professional, or a bureaucrat? For any other medical issue, the answer would be parents and a doctor. But for this issue everything is turned upside down. Why is that?
The small group is demanding rights that infringe on the rights of others. That is why it is getting so much attention.
Remember the riot in LA over “trans woman” who turned out to be a sexual predator?
Also, I think ADHD medication should only be given by a psychiatrist as well.
If you think this is the only condition that is facing scrutiny then you should look at opioids. The laws are confusing as to who and when they can be prescribed. I used to be able to hand them out like candy. Since I don’t actively practice anymore, I would not a refresher before trying to prescribe any opioids. That has mainly been regulated to a pain management doctor.
Really? I don’t see evidence of that. I believe the vast majority of this minority just want to live their lives and be able to take a piss in peace. Whose rights are being infringed? I’m not aware of trans people demanding any special privileges. They want the rights that everybody else have, nothing more.
I suspect some people would bring up sports as a part of the unfairness of trans existence, but that is not convincing to me. Let the free market handle that: if people don’t want to see trans athletes, then they can choose not to buy tickets to those events.
Remember that one time? Since the beginning of this year, 74 people have been killed and 91 injured in mass shootings of 4 or more victims in the United States. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_mass_shootings_in_the_United_States_in_2024
Should we make gun purchase dependant on 6 months of mental health counseling?
But that one time a trans woman changed her clothes in a gym locker room and people went apeshit? Even tho the LAPD said no crime had been reported, somebody tryin to change their clothes -in a locker room for crying out loud- is a sexual predator and we should have a riot and legislate the shit out of every trans in America because think of the children. Moral Panic.
It would have been less controversial if she had pulled out a gun and shot a bunch of people rather than try to change out of her gym clothes. God bless America.
Really? You do not hear about the issues with trans women and bathrooms?!?! You haven’t see the debates around trans women competing in sports that cause women to lose scholarships and awards?
Why are you talking about guns? They have zero to do with the topic.
It wasn’t a trans woman, it was a man claiming to be trans because he was a sexual predator.
That is incorrect.
On August 30, 2021, a 52-year-old individual, mostly reported as a trans woman,[i] was charged by the Los Angeles County District Attorney’s office with five counts of felony indecent exposure in connection with the incident, corresponding to the five individuals who’d filed complaints in July. An arrest warrant was issued for said individual.[4][28]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wi_Spa_controversy
I mention guns because the outrage surrounding transes is not in my opinion commensurate with the issue. 74 people dead in 23 days and no concern, but one pervert showed off their junk, - and now you’re telling me they weren’t even actually trans- therefore all trans are pervs and must suffer because protect the children.
Here’s the thing: when I was in highschool a long time ago, if you beat up a gay kid or autistic kid or a spaz, you’d get a lecture from a teacher or principal and that’s about it. One kid got suspended for half a day because of fighting. The message was pretty clear that it was ok to bully different kids because they were different, just don’t get caught.
I feel like it’s less acceptable in a lot of places now to beat up gays or bully the weird kid and I think that’s a good thing. I believe some people don’t think that’s a good thing, and want to go back to those ‘good old days’, or If that’s not possible, punish the different weird people in any way possible. That’s what I believe is going on here. A lot of this bullshit worry for kids suffering “permanent damage” and weaponized “safety concerns” about “biological males” in the girls bathroom is just a convenient way for some people, not all, to bully those who are different. It’s a way to be mean, disguised by a thin veil of “protect the children!”
This is my message to anyone reading this who may be among those counted as different: don’t be afraid, don’t let them get to you. They won’t win, they can never win.
And here’s my message to the haters: go fuck yourself. God Bless America
So odd. I never said anything like that.
deleted by creator
Should parents be able to get their kids lobotomies so long as they can find someone willing to perform them?
Or what about blood-letting, or leeching, or any of the other outdated medical procedures that people don’t do anymore? Should parents sacrifice their child to Satan provided they can find an authorized official of the church of Satan to perform the sacrifice? Should parents send their kids to troubled teen camps where they will be abused and possibly killed? Should parents sell their children into slavery?
For these and other parenting questions, I recommend that conservative christians follow biblical principles, starting with prayer, reading and meditating on psalms127:3 and Ephesians 6:4, and carefully considering the best interests of the child.
It is important to remember that children do not benefit when parents harden their hearts against them. Children are only driven away by such hardness. Children need more than just food and shelter to grow strong and healthy. Part of providing for children is giving them kindness, love, attention and support. What does the Bible say about those who don’t provide for their families? We can read 1Timothy 5:8 to find out. I hope this helps answer your question.
We still use leeches and blood letting in medicine.
Leeches are mainly used for microsurgery.
https://www.uhhospitals.org/blog/articles/2020/03/how-leeches-can-save-lives-and-limbs-for-some-patients/
Hemochromatosis is still treated by… blood letting.
Wow, Interesting stuff! I am also told bilateral cingulotomy is the treatment of last resort for people suffering from obsessive-compulsive disorder, when medication doesn’t work.
The point here is the question: how far does parental authority go, before it’s reasonable for the State to step in? I think most sensible people would agree that society as a whole benefits when there is some mechanism to protect children from parents who are abusive or have harmful ideas that will negatively impact the child/children.
Where do you draw that line? It is suggested that letting kids decide their own gender and supporting them in that is a kind of abuse, and government intervention is necessary. I don’t think the reasoning behind this assertion is very strong.
The often repeated notion that there is an insidious liberal woke gender ideology intent on converting all the girls in America into rugged truck drivers and oil-rig workers, and all the boys in America into docile feminine sissies (who are also somehow predators let into the girl’s locker rooms and restrooms of the nation) is played up so much and given so much attention for two reasons. The reasons are to distract from economic issues, and to shock and outrage gullible people into voting against their best interests.
Because it’s so easy to negate complicated truths with simple dumb lies and innuendo it’s easy to distract people from simple and harder to wave away facts like republican counties are among the poorest in the nation, and the great red state of Mississippi has a shockingly high maternal mortality rate.
Gay marriage, welfare queens, crisis at the border and now trans people are the hot button issues used to keep people voting for low wages, expensive and poor healthcare, corporate subsidies and environmental deregulation among other things. The people that benefit from these iniquities want to keep em going. Therefore OMG biological males in the girls room!
Things that are not necessary and have permanent impacts on their lives.
I am assuming you think not allowing a kid to transition is the same as child abuse.
What we have to do is look at the body of evidence to help make these decisions. Should an adult be allowed to transition? I would say yes. Body autonomy. I still think therapy should be required to make sure we are treating the right problem but I do not think they should have excessive burdens to transition.
Children? The state has a vested interest in protecting children from harm. So let’s look at other countries like Sweden which overall is one of the most progressive countries in the world. They have long accepted social deviance in their society and have worked hard to create a country of equality for all genders/sexes. Their view on women are where I wish we would be in this country.
Yet, they will not allow children to transition. They used to do it, looked at the research and said the risk is not worth the reward. They still allow exceptional cases and they are doing some more research to see what the best forward is.
They are using logic and science to figure it out.
Now the difference is most of ours is driven by religion (My opinion) and not science. That is the difference between the two models.
I kept writing up different answers, kept erasing them and rewriting them, so here, I hope it helps.
If someone is in distress and in need of medical care, they should go to a local ER instead of immigrating.
Abortion is murder. You will not change my mind.
Government healthcare like the VA, and like the UK and Canada is bad, more government healthcare will not be a good thing.
Y’all set the precedent with the vaccine. Now we get to regulate that shit. If you don’t like it, stop establishing bad precedents. Also, adults get to fuck their lives up if they want. Minors need guidance. That’s the difference.
It won’t cause an epidemic, the epidemic is already here, but it’s part of a much larger mental health epidemic.
Thanks for taking the time to answer. I think I haven’t seen you post in here much lately, so I hope this means you have more free time.
There’s a couple things about your reply:
I was not saying people should be able to immigrate quickly to get health care. I’m saying that having a mandatory waiting period regardless of circumstance is not good policy. For immigration, perhaps it’s unavoidable. For healthcare, it’s nonsensical.
Ok I won’t argue about that. I wonder about contraception tho, is it also murder? Republicans have been on the move to restrict that too, even though it seems to me it would prevent abortions. This is off topic sorry.
I’m not sure what this has to do with what I was asking. If you believe government involvement in healthcare is bad, then why is it good for the Ohio legislature to get involved in healthcare?
I don’t understand this. Does this mean, you did it, now we can do it? Like, are you saying forced vaccination was a bad thing, and so now we get to do a bad thing? That can’t be it but I’m not sure how else to interpret this.
Well I think the epidemic you are worried about is probably a frightening exaggeration of the mundane and unremarkable truth, largely driven by the media you consume. Trans people are such a minority, they are not a threat. There’s no danger that a large fraction of boys in America are going to trade in their baseball bats and gloves for dresses and makeup.
Oh yeah, after Karo/Kaiju got me banned from .world a little while ago, I started touching grass more. I took it as a reminder that I need to unwind and get away from the screen. Funny thing, I haven’t had nearly the same amount of reports or had to take as many mod actions since I got banned, so I’m taking it as a win.
Oh, that makes more sense. Personally, that should be between a consenting adult and the doctor, but I can kinda see why the law exists, with the same dumb logic that a waiting period to buy guns is. I don’t agree with it, but I can see the logic behind it.
I believe that it should only to the extent to protect people from stuff like malpractice and bad insurance and whatnot, but minors need more protection. I think for Ohio, it’s just restricting minors from mutilating themselves. An adult can screw up their lives, but minors need more guidance.
I think you think it’s a bad thing, that’s what I was getting at. And personally, I’m somewhat divided on it myself.
The mental health epidemic is a large umbrella. There’s a lot more autism, adhd, bipolar, and gender dysphoria in these past few years. 1.4% of teens are trans for example, compared to 0.5% of adults. Sure, there’s more acceptance and better diagnoses, but personally I think that there’s a bigger issue at play here. (Or issues.) I’m not worry about femboys or tomboys, just worried about young people in general.
https://www.pewresearch.org/social-trends/2022/06/28/americans-complex-views-on-gender-identity-and-transgender-issues/
I think the sports issue is what is driving acceptance down.
My best friend is trans, she thought all her conservative friends would freak out but none of us cared. The only issue we run into is she thinks it’s transphobic we would never date her. We should not be shamed for our preferences. Just as she should not be shamed for hers.
I kinda wonder if the criteria (or whatever term) is changing. Like what would’ve been considered acceptance ten years ago isn’t considered acceptance now.
I suspect it’s the backlash. People have tolerated/accepted trans people for years. Now it’s you are transphobic if you won’t date one or you’re phobic if you don’t think a biological male should be playing sports against women.
There is a certain point where people become intolerant. It makes the whole narrative fall apart.