- cross-posted to:
- games@sh.itjust.works
- cross-posted to:
- games@sh.itjust.works
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Cancellation like this aren’t always bad. Especially given BG3 as a whole, sometimes it’s good to just ship a complete product, and move onto newer things. They earned a break
Just give us modding tools before leaving this game in the dust 😭
sometimesalways
are you saying DLC or expansions are never a good idea?
Yeah I don’t think so – Sequels are the thing you’re supposed to have I think. Everyone drooling over having subscriptions since MMOs sucks and it really looks like the whole culture of the industry is pretty shitty in a lot of ways
E: I guess expansions can be good so you don’t have to be an EA sports franchise if you’re not changing the engine a bunch. Other than EUIV though, whose expansions are a money grab way to make the game cost 150 bucks, I haven’t ever played DLC I can think of.
Just a few dlc/expansion packs that were totally worth their money
All Rimworld expansions.
Diablo 3 reaper of souls/ D2 lord of destruction
The witcher blood and wine (?)
Ballad of gay tony
Star craft ones
Red alert yuris revenge
Horizon zero dawn frozen wilds
Etc… There are good expansions that are totally worth their money and add to the overall game.
That being said, I’m not a huge dlc fan and rarely spend money on them if they don’t really add to the game. More partial to spend on dlc for smaller studio games rather than large ones.
I didn’t even buy the Rimworld DLCs and I have 500+ hours! I did look at them but didn’t buy. Now that DF is graphical I mostly just play that now tbh.
DF is a great example – 15+ years updates no DLCs unless you count the steam release.
In what world is paying 40usd for a game and 3x 30usd for 500h of entertainment not a good deal? (not particularly aimed at you, but at dlc haters in general)
I am glad when they release a dlc. I get more great content. They get some more financial support.
I am 100% against cheap cash grabs. I am 100% pro multiple well made extentions for a game that allow me to support the studio.
I do agree video games are the best bang for buck entertainment by a mile
Unless the sequel is using way better tech and requires a new engine or massive engine tweaks, a sequel that comes shortly after the original release could be done better, faster and cheaper as an expansion pack.
Other than EUIV though, whose expansions are a money grab way to make the game cost 150 bucks, I haven’t ever played DLC I can think of.
Well there ya go. Paradox DLC is just bullshit. Most of them just add like 1-2 units or characters or factions which mostly boil down to an aesthetic change. Most big games get real additions via DLC that can add up to 50% more game.
You’ve never touched EUIV or it’s DLC I can tell
The non cosmetic Paradox DLCs fundamentally change the games so if you want to actually play the latest version of the game with all the mechanics you have to get them all. You can get them on steam sale usually for like 50 bucks a couple times a year.
I’m not defending it – It is what colors me most against DLCs.
I still just don’t like the idea of it – Why not do a DLC for movies and paintings and books? It feels wrong to fork a work of art or say “Oh sorry I didn’t actually make it all here’s the other 20%”
Come to think of it – Movie sequels are kind of like that these days where it’s just one story broken up instead of multiple separate stories. I wish we just did 4 hour movies with intermission but I’m sure I’m alone there.
sometimesalwaysSometimes
There are tons of examples where a sequel or DLC have been great additions to a game or series.
Far Harbor is a good example
Brood War.
The difference between StarCraft and Brood War is staggering.
I miss getting that big of an upgrade to things. Not to mention the level editor and the endless river of user created content.
They didn’t add all that many units, two per race. But they did have a great impact on the game (mostly).
Also, new campaigns for each race was awesome. The level editor not only brought many fun custom maps (I still think about that weird 300 map I played when I was 16), but ensured longevity of the game until this day by enabling new maps to be played in regular games.I miss getting all this stuff with a game or expansion too.
Can’t help but wonder how much of this is due to Hasbro’s mismanagement.
As much as I’d love to see more content from them on BG3, seeing what Larian can do now that they have scaled up to being a major studio is exciting.
Edit: Swen said on Twitter today that it’s not on WOTC.
Can’t help but wonder how much of this is due to Hasbro’s mismanagement.
All of it.
Is anyone else still confused
Larian is somehow an independent enough to tell Hasbro to go fuck themselves but not independent enough that Hasbro told them to layoff people, and they said ‘okay’.
Are they independent? Or are they not?
Nobody at Larion got laid off. Larion worked closely with some people at Wizards of the Coast to make Baldurs Gate 3, and those people got laid off.
Larion could make a game entirely on their own with no involvement with Hasbro or WotC (and they have), but they can’t make anything related to Dungeons and Dragons or the Forgotten Realms without Hasbro and WotC’s cooperation.
Thank you for answering my question. That makes more sense.
They were lamenting that all of the team at Hasbro-Wotc that they worked with on BG3 was laid off.
Not that Hasbro caused layoffs at Larian.
Larian worked with Hasbro to make BG3. Hasbro lays off people who helped them (from Hasbro). Larian doesn’t have much say about it other than “it sucks dude”.
Larian didn’t lay anyone off. Hasbro laid off WotC employees who were working on support for BG3. They have no power of Larian.
Being limited by the DnD system makes sense. DOS2 had a lot of cool mechanics not present in BG3. I do hope we see another DnD game from them eventually.
I actually want them to step away from 5e/DnD in general. I loved DOS2, but I agree with another commenter that the vast swaths of elements made things challenging in a frustrating way at times. Not that that shouldn’t be a tactic to be used, but it definitely was egregious in DOS2.
5E is just… A fuckin mess when it comes to balancing the game - said as a long time DM and player. There are so many things that just irritate the heck out of me with the system that can’t necessarily be balanced with a video game slapped overtop of it. (Not to say Larian didn’t do a good job with what they were given, but still)
That being said, I am a total fanboy of Pathfinder 2e and the way things are balanced there, and I would love love love to see a CRPG under those rules. Especially if it was Larian-levels.
Well you’re in luck. You can play Kingmaker then Wrath of the Righteous
Neither of those use the 2e rules, which are quite different from Pathfinder 1e.
I get where you’re coming from I just love the forgotten realms.
Maybe they can collaborate with Obsidian on something. Pillars of eternity and tyranny were amazing, especially the latter’s magic crafting system.
DOS2 fights felt much more like a slog than BG3. Especially in higher difficulties, every battlefield ended up a nightmarish soup of elemental surfaces, which got old after awhile. I also found whittling down enemy toughness bars un-fun.
Personally, I liked both the BG3 and DOS1 systems better than DOS2.
Fucking polymorph grenades in later acts pissed me off.
Well yeah, but the surfaces were DOS2 “thing”. They are present in BG3 too, just not as important to the overall gameplay. It doesn’t reflect badly on any future Divinity games, since they have proven they can use surfaces and have it not be overwhelming.
Yeah I felt like DOS2 had really improved on the already good formula that was DOS, and BG3 using the DnD system felt like a big step back. It’s still a great game, but I feel like it is in spite of the DND systems (not the setting), not because of it. DND doesn’t feel suited for the computer, it really fits better on the tabletop.
Really? I thought it fit great.
That said, I’ve only played a few minutes of DOS2 so I didn’t have much to compare it to.
I’ve also never played DnD but BG3 convinced me to join my friends’ weekly Pathfinder session
As someone who’s played their fair share of assorted DnD systems, 5E has a number of issues that really hold it back. For instance, you’re not really supposed to long rest between every fight, but how do you tell players that without a proper DM? It’s a very weak mechanic that’s apparently too iconic to have just axed.
Don’t get me wrong, 5E works better at what it’s supposed to - easily accessible and relatively low math tabletop roleplay. But a computer can do so much more.
Lots of RPGs allow rest cheesing. Even if you don’t let players rest in random locations like BG3 does, the players can always hoof it back to town to rest. Attempts to prevent this kind of cheesing often end up feeling unduly punishing and un-fun. It’s not a tabletop vs computer issue.
I guess I accidentally played by the “spirit” of 5E because I only long rested when I absolutely had to lol
It took way too much of my precious gaming hours
The many flaws of d&d is why I strongly prefer gurps.
That’s fair. I’ve a bunch of friends who love the DnD system in it.
D&D 5e is kind of bad system. It’s “good” in that it’s hard to make a bad character, and it’s popular, but that’s most of what it has going for it. It’s missing a lot of rules you’d want for a general purpose RPG. Centering it on rests only works in rather specific kinds of games. The magic system is very bespoke and thus clunky. The dice math if 1d20+stuff gives you a flat probability, which is often unsatisfying.
Pathfinder 2e is widely considered better than 5e in every way, unless you actually specifically want the simple+shallowness of 5e. Which is a fine thing to want, but that is a pretty big trade off. If you were just playing with friends, you’d probably be better off with Fate or maybe a PbtA game if you want simple narrative stuff, or Gloomhaven if you just want a board game.
I find Pathfinder 2e (and D&D 3e before it) way clunkier. Maintaining a level-appropriate power level requires stacking buffs like the Overlord meme, and if you decline to do so, you’re just crippling your character. It’s bad enough that auto-buffing mods are considered mandatory for the Pathfinder CRPGs.
I don’t like the Christmas tree effect either, where your character is less important than your stack of magic doodads and buffs.
The pathfinder crpgs are 1e. I’m not sure how much changed in 2e, but I’m told it’s much better.
Myself, I’m playing Fate now.
Pf2e is great, and for those that want something lighter on the crunch there’s a bunch of better systems out there.
So did the rest of the planet when they voted it best game of the year
Edit: removed unneeded hostility toward the other commenter
I don’t like of the dices but BG3 sucked my way more in than DOS2 so I how they really manage to combine the best of both in their next game. Let’s hope the expectations don’t get too high.
I think making something on par with BG3 will be incredibly tough. Wouldn’t mind seeing them branch out and try something new again. Larian has done a bunch of different stuff before. A modern take on Ego Draconis would be really cool.
Ego Draconis and Divine Divinity are best Divinities. Fite me!
I won’t fight you over that, I think they were good too. I’d love a modern third-person ARPG in the Divinity universe. The “build your own ghoul” mechanic was really fun, and obviously turning into a fucking dragon was epic too.
Yeah the DnD mevhanics are weird for me coming from DOS2…
I really miss elements mixing and having to focus on elements in general. And those weird ‘Long Rest’ things… kinda annoying for me.Same here, i just felt nerfed in baldurs compared to Dos2. Still had fun though
The implementation of long rest was very poor. Short rest I like because it’s a precious resource that you really should be conserving. But the punishment for abusing long rests was basically nonexistent outside of a few specific cases, so for 95% of the game you can just use it with impunity and not worry about basically anything. Short rests were just a convenient way to keep playing without spending the time of doing a long rest.
I disagree that it was badly implemented.
They wanted to put in a way to put pressure on long rests without a strict time limit frame. I feel that the food limit was the best option.
Bu the food limit is trivial. We get enough food in the first couple hours of the game that you basically don’t need to think about it again until probably deep in act 2. I can’t think of a single moment in both playthroughs where I even had to remotely consider short or long rests as a resource in any sense of the word. The only issue I ever had was starting a quest and needing to take a long rest, but knowing that it would advance it to a failure state. That is more of an irritation than a mechanic to create urgency. Especially since they’re so infrequent and often telegraphed well in advance. Not to mention the game floods you with enough money and free potions laying around that a lot of times you can just heal up and keep moving without using rests of any kind.
Combine this with camp casting and the ability to change out party members nearly at-will and it makes the entire rest system basically moot.
If you didn’t need to rest to advance some of the stories, then people would basically never consider when they take long rests because they’re abundant. This leads to the next issue: If you blow a few spell slots being sloppy, you just take a long rest. Problem solved. You have very little reason to conserve abilities. For 80%+ of the game you can blow all your abilities in a fight or two, long rest, keep going.
They’re been working on BG3 for so long as a studio… I can imagine wanting to work on something else.
Here’s hoping for a Games Workshop based RPG, maybe a Warhammer Old World story.
