• Odelay42@lemmy.world
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    13 days ago

    Teaching.

    College degree mandatory, graduate degree preferred.

    Yearly continuing education costs.

    Out of pocket expenses for classroom materials.

    Sometimes providing food for kids who don’t have it.

    Famously low salaries and very long hours.

      • MonkeMischief@lemmy.today
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        11 days ago

        It creates:

        • Statistically, a constantly desperate hand-to-mouth workforce that must depend on employers to sustain their existence.
        • Armed forces signup incentives.
        • Easily-swayed consumers of products and services. (Run by those with access to nepotism and/or education, naturally.)
        • And easily manipulated voters.

        Underfunding education and having people basically born into debt isn’t a neglectful oversight, it’s a deliberate strategy.

      • corsicanguppy@lemmy.ca
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        11 days ago

        You maybe missed the sarcasm mark, but I admire your optimism that we’d all get the joke.

        • MajorMajormajormajor@lemmy.ca
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          11 days ago

          Surely people on the internet are fair and reasonable, right? There couldn’t possibly be a downside to being sarcastic over posts?

    • sunzu@kbin.run
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      13 days ago

      Ruling class is creating a disincentive for teachers

      I am sure they think ai can do the job better.

      • krashmo@lemmy.world
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        13 days ago

        They’ve been paying teachers shit for way longer than AI has been around. AI can’t do much of anything better than people though.

      • echo@lemmings.world
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        13 days ago

        I am sure they think ai can do the job better.

        No, they are convinced that the church will do the job better. (Better defined as producing a more compliant and conservative work force.)

      • Scrubbles@poptalk.scrubbles.tech
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        13 days ago

        Oh longer than that. Look at what party leads in wanting to defund education but fund private paid education. The same party who is voted in by the uneducated, who famously are lacking in critical thinking and reasoning skills.

        It’s in their best interest to keep a low educated population who happily go to work and believe what they’re told.

    • Mkengine@feddit.de
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      11 days ago

      As a European, could you explain College degree, graduate, post graduate, etc. ? We have Bachelor’s and Master’s degree here, I thought we got that from you?

    • Mobilityfuture@lemmy.world
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      12 days ago

      Teachers are horrendously underpaid, but they need to stop complaining about the “hours”. It rings disingenuous to most who know the job.

      Unless they are taking afterschool roles they work generally 8-3:00 with a potentially a few hours of work after for grading and lesson planning. This is along with numerous holidays / admin days during the school year.

      I say this knowing personally a few teachers who complain about hours, and it seems to be a cultural thing not based in their reported real experiences.

      The salary is shit, at least for non-senior roles in my state, but that is not a lot of hours relative to the average wage earner.

      • Odelay42@lemmy.world
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        11 days ago

        You couldn’t be more wrong.

        All my teacher friends wind up working 10 hour days on average.

        They work during breaks.

        They work during summer.

        Good teachers don’t just show up for classroom time then disappear.

        • MarxMadness@lemmygrad.ml
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          11 days ago

          Then factor in the hours you have to spend at a second job because your main job doesn’t pay a living wage.

        • Mobilityfuture@lemmy.world
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          10 days ago

          I know two teachers personally. This is not the case in my discussions with them and others. Maybe you can enlighten me on what does take 10 hours of time daily?

          From speaking them they are absolutely not working from 8:0am - 6:00pm on every day.

          Lesson plans are inherited from prior teachers and … yes continuously updated during the year but not at a major time cost every day. Grading takes a few hours for one day either on the weekend or in the evening.

          And yes they complain about it constantly… it seems more a cultural thing. They also complain about other teachers complaining 🤣

          I’m not touching the issue of summers off because yes that is a different thing, and yes it’s quite hard for them to get real employment.

          Again salaries should be higher and support teachers not assuming they can work in the summer… but why conflate this with the daily hours ( which are frankly good as stated by those who I know in the profession as a reason they like and took the job)

      • MonkeMischief@lemmy.today
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        11 days ago

        Perhaps you misunderstand.

        The hours are very high and the classroom time is only a small part of it.

        The billed hours are extraordinarily low. :D

        Warm and fuzzy feelings of inspiring the next generation are supposed to stand-in for actual wages in the USA.

        Also better have plans to fill in that summer gap. I’m sure it’s not fun vaycay time for teachers like it is for a lot of the students.

  • Paraponera_clavata@lemmy.world
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    13 days ago

    College professors. Most are part time adjunct, most make garbage pay, work their asses off, while university executives make bank.

    • simple
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      13 days ago

      Where I live college professors are extremely well paid. Well, at least in private colleges.

      TAs earn nearly nothing though.

      • orcrist
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        13 days ago

        It’s very important to be precise. Depending what country you’re in, there could be full professors, assistant professors, associate professors, instructors, and other positions. Some of those positions might be well paid, but it’s a safe bet that some of the others are not. So if you’re looking at one full professor’s salary and thinking that most other people with the word professor in their name make the same salary, depending what country you live in, you would be mistaken.

        Actually wait a second, that’s true in every country.

  • KlavKalashj@lemmy.world
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    13 days ago

    Musician. I have 7 years of university level studies and 12 years of work experience, and I make less than median salary in Sweden.

          • KlavKalashj@lemmy.world
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            12 days ago

            I’m guessing you are joking but I’m not really sure. Point is, I educated myself for a really long time and then I won a position in an orchestra, and my salary is now very low, in comparison. There are other benefits though so I’m not really complaining.

  • Feathercrown@lemmy.world
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    12 days ago

    Teaching, 100%. Incredibly important, some of the most dedicated people in any field, and they’re paid peanuts. Oh yeah, and they work like 12 hours a day. The way we treat them is a disgrace.

    • krash@lemmy.ml
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      11 days ago

      As an ex social worker in Sweden (both as a case officer and treatment assistant), I can attest to the low pay, garbage benefits (if any) and extremely stressful work.

  • Paraponera_clavata@lemmy.world
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    12 days ago

    In the US, most professors are part time adjunct and get no health benefits. Probably make 30-50k.

    Tenured faculty at major universities make 70-90k.

    Considering these jobs requires at least 9 years of uni (in the US), the lifetime income of professors is still very low.

    RE TAs: I US stem fields TAs work 20h and make 15-30k. That usually includes free tuition, but not in all states (e.g. in Texas, you sometimes pay tuition out of your TA pay, which is crazy)

    • WolfLink@sh.itjust.works
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      12 days ago

      TAs work 20h and make 15-30k.

      That’s time spent teaching. They are also expected to do research with the rest of their time, which is more work.

    • Jumpingspiderman
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      11 days ago

      When I left academia to go to the private sector, I got a 40% bump in pay, and worked at least 30% less. And I didn’t have to write grants to support my program. When I was an academic, I thought people never came back to academia from the private sector because they couldn’t. I quickly found out that it was because they’d have to be crazy to come back. I wouldn’t have returned to the university for anything less than an endowed chair. And that was NOT going to happen.

      • Paraponera_clavata@lemmy.world
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        11 days ago

        I’m almost the same story. Now I have great pay, fully remote, and a position where I’m respected, without competing egos, and folks want what I have to offer.

        Kinda a tangent, but my department was always having guest speakers come from “alternative careers” but none were better paying or higher status than a professorship. Usually park rangers or low paying consulting things. Maybe I just had bad luck, but it really pushed the narrative that there were no opportunities out there. I’d love to give that talk to a department of PhD students, to give them my perspective if what’s important from the outside looking in.

    • ChihuahuaOfDoom@lemmy.world
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      13 days ago

      EMT; I’ve heard that I’m about to get a raise to $17/hr but I think it may just be a carrot to keep me there (currently make $16).

      • brygphilomena@lemmy.world
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        12 days ago

        It’s so fucked. I know there are different levels, but the McDonald’s out here in California starts at $20/hr.

        • ChihuahuaOfDoom@lemmy.world
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          12 days ago

          Yep, I could walk into a McDonald’s here and earn at least the same depending on the position. I knew that going into it though.

    • grasshopper_mouse@lemmy.world
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      12 days ago

      This right here. I took an EMT course at the local community college in 1999, then learned that the pay was minimum wage. Never got a job as an EMT because I needed more money to live.

    • Perhapsjustsniffit@lemmy.ca
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      11 days ago

      Been this guy in a place where we were even written out of labor laws and started in the early 90’s. When I started I made $6.50/hr and worked 168 hrs per two week rotation as an EMT. As. paramedic after I paid for my own education I got a raise to $8. It was brutal and we were the highest paid in our area. Some were getting $0.60/hr standby and $50 per call in rural areas where you would at that time get a call or two a week.

      • MonkeMischief@lemmy.today
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        11 days ago

        $50 per call but you can bet the patient is being billed $5k minimum for the ride, probably pocketed by insurance agencies or the hospital execs.

        I can’t understand how people are EMTs and why there haven’t been riots over this, but God bless them.

    • relevants@feddit.de
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      13 days ago

      Is that more of a ‘big expensive city’ thing or is $65k generally considered low in the US? I’m not from there so I am trying to put that into perspective

      • ChihuahuaOfDoom@lemmy.world
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        13 days ago

        For a lawyer it doesn’t matter where you are in the US that is very low. I used to make more than that doing tech support in a high cost of living area.

      • Fondots@lemmy.world
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        13 days ago

        In general, that’s probably a pretty OK income, not amazing, but probably a bit better than average depending on where you are in the country, but far from being wealthy, you’re probably not struggling, but you’re not above needing to worry about money sometimes either.

        And since public defenders are lawyers, that’s kind of a shitty income given that they had to go through law school and such.

        • kurcatovium
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          12 days ago

          I asume it’s 65k a year? Gross or net? Not from US, just want to compare. My brother-in-law’s fiance is public sector lawyer and she does barely above minimum wage here (eastern EU). She gets somewhere between 15-20k USD a year (net, after tax).

          • borari@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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            12 days ago

            In the US nobody really mentions their salary as an after tax amount, it’s almost always give as the pre-tax, pre-deduction amount.

      • Zipitydew@sh.itjust.works
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        13 days ago

        It’s not terrible. I mentioned it mainly because getting through law school in the US costs about $200k. Becoming a lawyer is one of the most expensive fields to get into.

    • UltraGiGaGigantic
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      12 days ago

      My public defender wasn’t worth a single cent. Justice is a sham, as is evident by Trump still walking around with his head after his heavy treason.

    • protist@mander.xyz
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      13 days ago

      Highly dependent on the job. I’m a SW who hires SWs. New grad LMSWs can start at $60K in hospitals or some government jobs, or $40K in schools or some nonprofits. 5-10 years of experience and a clinical license and you’ll easily pull $75-80K, or $90K+ in management.

      Then there’s private psychotherapy practice, which I know some people who charge $200/hour out of pocket and are scheduled out for months.

      All this to say getting a master’s in social work was one of the best decisions I’ve ever made, and I have no regrets financially, but there are some people who do end up in very low paid jobs

    • MissJinx@lemmy.world
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      13 days ago

      Not the expert in Cat Nephrology that I have to take my cat every other month. Always fully booked and it costs more than my doctor just for her to look at blood tests. srsly 5min. The tests itself are not included

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        13 days ago

        There’s no way it costs more than your doctor. You are either glossing over what your insurance is paying for you, or your doctor is seeing you in a back alley somewhere.

        Also, you’re not paying for the vet’s time spent looking at bloodwork, which I actually do believe is 5 minutes. You’re paying for the 4 years of undergrad, 4 years of medical school, (and if they’re truly a specialist) several years of residency and being boarded, plus many hours of specialized continuing education per year.

        • Taco2112@lemmy.world
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          13 days ago

          Private equity firms have been buying veterinary offices at an increased rate since 2020 and jacking up rates, especially in high COL areas so I’m not surprised. My dog needed a tooth extracted at the end of last year and the cost was just under $1000. I understand there are highly trained individuals working there that need to be paid appropriately but I wonder what the cost for me to have one tooth extracted would be?

          • Typhoonigator@lemmy.world
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            12 days ago

            Agreed on the private equity firms shit, I’ve worked at 2 such hospitals and they’ve been hell. They’re most assuredly not passing those increased prices along to the employees in form of wage increases, I’ll tell you that.

            Also, that tooth extraction is a choice to use as a comparison. I’ve never had to be anesthetized for my extractions, but good luck doing that on an awake dog, so of course costs are going to be high. Anesthestizing you for your dentistry would cost way way more than it does now, and certainly more tgan your dog’s.

  • hasnt_seen_goonies@lemmy.world
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    13 days ago

    Foresters. You have to have a degree(most are 2 years, but still), and you can make less than the fed poverty rate. The exception is a federal job, but those are very competitive.

  • son_named_bort@lemmy.world
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    12 days ago

    Librarians from what I’ve heard. They usually require a masters degree but the pay usually doesn’t reflect that.

    • MonkeMischief@lemmy.today
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      11 days ago

      Which is crazy, because it widely depends on the district.

      You could be in rurals-ville, FlyoverState, USA and make a pittance. (Oh plus BTW, the excitement of torches and pitchforks coming for you, your staff, and your collection. Politicians also attempting to undermine the entire institution of libraries for strategic mob-outrage points. Ah, perks!)

      Or in some urban areas that are well-funded, librarians and especially branch managers are paid stupidly well. Their jobs mostly being general management duties, listening to the complaints of the insane and unreasonable, tresspassing the insane and unreasonable, and answering “Do you work here? Where’s the bathroom?” Of course, that’s when they’re not stuck in pointless meetings.

      Lots of stress sometimes. But BMs make low six-figures. I imagine there’s worse jobs.

      But it’s one of those things where a spot usually opens up only if someone moves, retires, or expires.