- cross-posted to:
- israelicrimes
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We weren’t sure which building Hamas was hiding in so we just bombed them all.
this genocide has made me very anti israel
Save for a very brief period of time, I was always anti-Israel, but I simply was unaware of just HOW fucked up Israel was due to a variety of factors.
Israel and its supporters did a GREAT job of linking anti-israel sentiment to antisemitism. That alone made reporting of its messed up actions and history taboo. Certainly does not help that neonazis are also frequently anti-israel.
But… Shit… I mean Israel was founded on white jewish supremacy. Real hard to have a state founded on racial supremacy not turn into a fucking nightmare.
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I have been anti Israel ever since I heard about the “settlers”. That’s so fucked up Even before the war. Such arrogance and entitlement to assume you can just take things like that and that a god would support you lol.
Israel is an occupying/besieging force and Hamas’ attack against them was justified morally, ethically, and under international law. Israel’s retaliation against the entire population of Gaza is completely unjustified, and completely illegal.
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Those are the rules when you’re occupied by a foreign military. Imagine if Russia had control over all of Ukraine - people in occupied Kyiv would be justified in attacking Russia, but Russia would not be justified in retaliating against the Ukrainians.
If Israel wants to make it so that the Palestinians don’t have every right to retaliate against them, they would have to end the occupation, the blockade, the settlements, etc.
Are you retarded?
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Remember when the US government said invading rafah would be “too far”?
It’s ok, just think of all the 4 year old hamas terrorists they killed!
But but but, October 7th was unjustifiable, so surely it justifies this! These two things are absolutely, for sure, 100% the same thing! /S
The talkie-talkie of the US government not matching their walkie-walkie.
What! A! Shocker!
Right, so Israel leveled it and invaded some ruins not Rafah!
Fuck war
Can a genocide like that be consider war? Not that the statement is wrong.
Like all things it’s a spectrum. This conflict has been about 1% a war between Hamas and the IDF, and 99% the IDF indiscriminately killing civilians.
Fuck Israel
Israel did this because they thought it would make them safer. The future generations won’t forget this. They might as well make their country an island
The kids surviving this, will have all the right to make hell rain upon these monsters.
Sorry, this “only defending ourselves” farce is absurd and we, the so called “civilized world”, had an obligation to stop this a long time ago.
Anti-Fucking-Israel is no Anti-Semitism!
The kids surviving this,
That’s why Israel’s plan is to literally exterminate them all.
The kids surviving this
You innocent child, Israel is making sure there’s no kids surviving this.
“I was only following orders!!”
The kids surviving this, will have all the right to make hell rain upon these monsters.
They won’t. The folks getting bombed to paste are going to struggle just to survive into the next few years. They are going to be in no position to resist their oppressors. Those who have the guns make the rules, and the IDF is far better armed thanks to the billions of dollars in military aid Americans continue to ship them.
This apartheid will continue until Americans agree to boycott the Israeli military.
Iran has plenty of money and guns to pass around. Proxy wars are the main course for the modern history of the middle east. I find saying that they won’t find a way to bite back extremely ignorant of the reality on the ground and all of human history really… Most revolts were made by desperate people that had literally nothing on their own, either had to receive it from a third party of questionable intent or steal it.
Iran has plenty of money and guns to pass around.
The Gaza Strip was fully firewalled off from the surrounding states. Iran wasn’t sending any aid - military or otherwise - into Palestine. You may have it confused with The West Bank, which the Israelis are also rapidly chewing up and demolishing. But - again - when you destroy all the civilian infrastructure and turn the territory into a post-apocolyptic hellscape, there’s no place to live much less launch a rebellion out of.
Like the Afghanis?
Well “Afghans” doesn’t really mean much. It’s not really a collective group with any great unifying force. Too many different aspirations. Many clearly no minding who’s in power. It’s nowhere near as extreme as the situation in Israel. Definitely don’t wanna downplay the mess that are the Afghan conflicts. But it’s just not comparable at all.
American exceptionalism.
I’m sorry but your point is anchored on an old Propaganda myth of Israel.
Israel’s lack of safety comes from them having stolen Palestinian land and continuing to steal Palestinian land, for decades.
If safety was their prime objective, they could stop stealing Palestinian land, give back at least some Palestinian land and compensate the victims for the rest (I am assuming here that Israel would keep some of the originally stolen land to continue to exist as a nation).
They have chosen not to do that and instead they have chosen to use force against Palestinians to stop their just rage at having their land stolen and have chosen to Genocide Palestinians to finally take away the rest of their land.
Safety is not the primary reason for the actions of Israel. Safety is an excuse and at best a second or third order reason derived from their real primary reason:
- Israel did this (as they did most of what they did to Palestinians for 7 decades) because they want to steal all the Palestinian land.
They did it because they want to genocide Palestine - this only creates a bunch of people with justifiable hatred of Israel and nothing to lose.
If they wanted to be safer, they wouldn’t have funded Hamas’ displacement of the secular moderates, gleefully committed and publicised thousands of warcrimes, established an ethnostate, conducted decades of land grabs, or scream maniacally about a second, bigger Amalek.
No, the didn’t do this because “they think it will make them safer” they knew exactly what they doing and that’s why there is a genocide case against them.
They might as well make their country an island
They’d probably prefer that
I’m sure they would if they could
The before and after sliders are the saddest thing I’ve seen in a while.
It shows, the weapons they used really flatted the area, there’s no chance of surviving this, if you were hiding somewhere within.Edit: Ok, the layer of sand/soil over everything makes the whole seem much flatter than it is. When you zoom in, you can notice some buildings almost invisible but still standing. When zoomed out a little, they’re gone. But even so…
I needed to cross check in Egypt zu see how the buildings look like as reference.
Still lots of destruction.
That’s insane.
It should however be noted that the new image is taken at a different angle and likely time of day. So the destruction looks exaggerated. If you look closely you can find several buildings that look destroyed at first glance, are actually intact but just hard to spot.
Definitely a proportionate response. Doing their best to reproduce carpet bombing in a world where carpet bombing no longer works without using a nuke. Takes a lot of effort, effort better spent elsewhere…
Hamas did this /s
Real
Sadly they certainly helped. And very likely Isreali agents encouraged and supported them to do it. There are certainly power hungry people in hamas who saw this as an opportunity to increase their power at the expense of their people. Just like the Israeli politicians are openly doing now. And American politicians… and… These people pit two sides against each other for thier own personal gain and to stop the people from seeing the real enemy. Been like this for centuries…
What you are saying is not true. It’s not likely at all that they were encouraged by Israeli agents. In Israel/Palestine there is no “real enemy” the real enemy is the other side full stop. It’s not like in the USA or the rest of the world where you could make an argument based on class warfare. This is a feud going back centuries, if the entire social system and modern world collapsed, Muslims Christians and Jews would still be fighting over Jerusalem and Palestine
It is well know that isreal supported hamas to weaken the Palestinian authority.
https://www.politico.eu/article/israel-funded-hamas-claims-eu-top-diplomat-josep-borrell/ That’s just one link. You can find many others, even ones predating the current situation. So your full stop is more like a california roll at best. The world has very few absolutes.
For those curious why the second image looks so different take a look at this video
This is just them being good neighbors! That house was totally unsuitable for living and would have hurt any Gazans trying to live there!
/s
That is grim. Repost that.
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Just a small “limited operation” as was promised by Joe Biden.
You mean just as small and quick as the Russian special military operation in Ukraine?
That’s a great comparison. We should stop sending weapons to both aggressors.
We don’t send weapons to Russia
My bad. Maybe we could extend that policy to other aggressors?
Yes, please. I have no idea why we still send weapons to countries like Saudi Arabia.
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It’s not really up to Joe Biden though at the end of the day
He gave them the weapons and is STILL giving them weapons today knowing exactly how they’re being used. “We’re trying to hard to stop this” while handing them the bombs they need to continue uninterrupted.
seriously, what was HAMAS’ end-game here?
surely they knew that they couldn’t defend Gaza against Israel?
Did they miscalculate the risk and think Israel wouldn’t react?
I think they assumed that Israel wouldn’t be so bloodthirsty as to put the hostages at risk, which would give them a bargaining position so that once they weathered the initial retaliation they would be able to get concessions such as allowing Palestinians to leave Gaza, ending the blockade of Gaza’s ports, ending Israeli control of Gazan water sources, etc.
But as we’ve all learned since then the IDF has an explicit policy to kill Israeli civilians if it looks like they’re about to be captured, and Israel’s political leadership simply aren’t put off by the possibility of killing every single remaining hostage in their campaign to flatten Gaza.
Ah yes israel committing Genocide is actually Hamas’ fault.
He/she didn’t blame them, they asked what was their plan. One can twist the words to make a pointless statement. Or one could choose to provide some background that might actually bring the commenter to your side. Help the cause by informing.
When a party commits war crimes those are the fault of that party. Blaming them on the other party is not how it works.
Hamas is responsible for Hamas’ war crimes on oct7. Israel is responsible for their Genocide being committed right now.
Did you read what I wrote? Seems like you are just looking for someone to argue with. If I attack a guy and he pulls out a gun and shoots me, he still committed murder, but I share some of the blame. It’s not just one or the other. In the middle east it is more like Isreal goaded hamas into attacking it, then pulled out a bazooka instead of a gun. Hamas gets the blame for attacking civilians, and for knowing it would cost it’s own civilian lives. Also for letting Isreal goad them into it. Isreal gets the blame for everything they are doing in response, which is of course a lot more. Anyone intentionally targeting civilians is simply not okay.
Please don’t put words in my mouth.
I asked what Hamas wanted to achieve by attacking Israel.
Even I would have predicted Israel would lash out. And I’m not really familiar with Israel. So surely Israels direct neighbours, who swore to destroy it, would know it well enough to know how it would react.
What was their plan? What the fuck do they gain from this useless war and destruction?
Do you know how many generations Palestinians have been dying to this shit?
Humans have a finite capacity to endure things before shit starts getting irrational all around.
Revenge was never rational, really.
Not going to pretend to be able to read the minds of Hamas. But it seems like the idea was that taking hostages would give them leverage to negotiate. Because although the Israeli government generally regard Palestinians as subhuman barbarians, surely they wouldn’t risk the lives of the hostages by retaliating full force. And it seems in general they were partially right. The general population of Israel is calling for a ceasefire because they are concerned for the safety of the hostages and want their friends and family back. But Netanyahu seems to have very little interest in negotiations.
Israel’s neighbors have long abandoned their vows to fuck over Israel many decades ago. Egypt made peace with Israel in the 70s and Jordan did in 1994. The Gulf states and Saudi Arabia were never serious about opposing Israel and were secretly trying to normalize their relationship with the country for decades before being open about it in the past 10 years.
Even in 1948 the Arabs were militarily handicapped by a combination of colonialism reworking their militaries from actual militaries to glorified police forces, in addition to being very undersupplied and having no unified plan. The 1948 war was a joke. Far from the David vs. Goliath battle that Israel likes to play it off as (the Israeli military at the time was much, MUCH better armed than all of their Arab neighbors combined in addition to being numerically superior to all their adversaries as well).
The Israelis were always monstrous in their conduct towards their enemies. They were always genocidal and extreme in their terrorism. Do you know the great replacement theory or the fear that white supremacists have over minorities gaining any sort of influence with more numbers? The only example in human history where something like that happened WAS by Zionists in their slow takeover over the region. They did, to a T, everything they claimed Muslims do when taking over. Acting all nice when they are the minorities, then demanding more and more as their numbers grow and purposefully push other groups out before demanding everything. All the while never integrating into local communities and forming impregnable enclaves of their own. For example by the 1920s there were Zionist communities in Palestine that had been living there for more than a generation at that point but did not interact at all with the local community. Not even with Arab Jews, and they did not speak any Arabic either.
It has always been projection. Plain and simple.
I am talking about Hamas, not Egypt or Jordan
And I was referring to your part where you were referring to Israel’s direct neighbors.
As it stands a war between them right now would be very different than 1948. If Israel cannot militarily defeat a group operating in prison and has had a group of ragtag rebels in Yemen blockade the country (despite them having no navy) I think that Egypt and Jordan of the 2020s can really give the IDF a serious run for its money. Especially if the US grows a pair and stands up to Israel and stops supplying weapons.
But sadly if that happens Israel will go down in history as the only other country to use nuclear weapons in anger… and on itself to prevent the country from being defeated, as per their Samson and Hannibal doctrines.
I was not referring to Israels direct neighbors, is was refering to its direct neighbor Hamas
Hamas is not a neighbor! Like Holy shit dude! Are you one of those guys who legit thinks that Gaza is a fully independent country and that Hamas is an internationally recognized sovereign entity?
Here is a great video by an israel explaining all of that.
The real question is what israel is gaining from committing Genocide in Gaza.
That’s a pretty easy answer, it’s letting anyone else know the lengths they will go when attacked.
What I find laughable are all the Americans who I watched demand the deaths of Muslims and Arabs from decades, suddenly want to play the moral paragons and defenders of Palestine. Americans fucked my country too and they just move on to the next outrage, without apologizing, making amends or anything. They wreck half the world, then turn around and moralize to us.
See the thing is you are scribing to all Americans what the media shows you. The media makes money on extremes. So they hand pick who’s opinion you here. Hardly anyone I know here in America actually demanded the deaths of Muslims and Arabs at all. It was still too many, but far from what the media would have you believe.
Without supporting any kind of violence. And without denying anything.
I feel obligated to say that this is purposely manipulated. As pictures taken in very different times of day and year make for a faulty comparison that does not portrait reallity.
Specially the time of day (that make shadows disappear on the right picture) and the sandy surfaces make it seems like the image on the right it’s all flat and that buildings are leveled to the ground. And that’s simply not true. It’s just optical illusions.
This does not mean that the areas was not subjected to heavy bombardment, and that all people on that area may have been killed by bombs. But the images presented are just manipulative and I’m against media manipulation no matter how good intentions are behind the manipulative attempt.
“Now Jimmy, make sure you wait for a full year of bombing and spend a few thousand dollars adjusting the timing of this satellite to get exactly comparable images so someone on the internet who vaguely heard about manipulative photo techniques, but is fine with ignoring the realities of actually taking the photos, can’t nitpick an image of very clear destruction.”
EDIT: And let’s just drive this home: https://www.bellingcat.com/news/2024/08/27/satellite-imagery-shows-vast-destruction-in-rafah/
The differences between 2023 November and 2024 April are due to lighting, and it’s plain to see the buildings are still there even with lighting differences.
Between 2024 April and August nearly everything left of the red line is gone. It’s not some trick of the light or sand - you can clearly see the other buildings right of the line.
You’ve tried to deflect by saying people are missing the point and you agreed there is destruction - but no one said that. They said that your two points, that the destruction was not as bad as the images suggest, and that the images are intentionally misleading are both false.
And they are both false.
The image clearly tries to make see like not a single building is left. It’s the intention of this images.
I’m pretty sure there’s a noble intention behind this, but it is misleading, it is propagandistic.
I will provide you a true comparison, similar lightning, similar time of the year. From september 2023 to september 2024. You’ll clearly see the destruction. It’s nothing shy. There’s a lot of destruction. But my images will not exaggerate reality.
There you don’t have to really look into what buildings are still up or not, as it is quite evident in the images what was destroyed to the ground. Even with far worse resolution the portrayal of reality is, IMO, infinity better. And the fact that in 5 minutes, with public resources and from my phone I can create this image that is less propagandistic that the image of the post, is, again IMHO, another evidence on why the image from the post have a higher propagandistic value that informative value.
… that looks like even more was destroyed…
Not at all you can clearly see many houses having fully disappeared by being flattened with bulldozers
Let me correct that for you. It should be: Yes, though I agree you can also see some places where houses were leveled by bulldozer.
The angle the photos were taken from are also different. That increases the appearance of devastation beyond what is actually there. This image is an intention exaggeration of something that was already unacceptable. Doing so erodes confidence in information about the things happening there. Who knows, maybe this was even created by the IDF for that purpose.
The sandy image gives it a different look but the destruction is actually that massive. Another example from Aug 23; CNN Children are drinking from puddles and wading through sewage pools, as Israel pummels water systems in Gaza
Satellite images show Canada Water reservoir in Rafah, southern Gaza, on July 18 (left) and July 30 (right). ©2024 Maxar Technologies:
Are you replying to the right comment. No one on this comment thread has said that there wasn’t large scale destruction or that any of this was okay.
By the way here’s a video that answers your question in 40 seconds https://files.catbox.moe/qvayy0.mp4
You kinda sound like a bot. I didn’t ask any questions
You did make claims.
I’m not saying area was not bombarded. I’m saying the election of that specific picture, time of day without shadows and just after a sandstorm, is made on purpose to exaggerate.
The fact that this has as many downvotes as upvotes makes me want to avoid anything political on lemmy, and go back to just shitposting about Linux distros.
