I really do feel like I’m taking crazy pills with libs this election. The last two they at least had a bloodless rationale to the “lesser of two evils” rhetoric.

But this is genocide, the canonical Worst Thing You Can DO! I know many just believe that it’s not a genocide at all because Palestinian civilians are all Hamas and just subhuman or that the videos published by official IOF channels are all deepfaked by the hungry ghost of Nasrallah. But then just FUCKING SAY IT and then we can call you a genocide denier and we’ll know where we stand!

What I can’t get is that many do seem to agree it’s a genocide and Kamala is complicit. But then they lesser evil by going “Well if we don’t vote then Trump will do bad things to trans people here.”

Like Fuck You! You scheming, gaslighting bloody handed monster!

Either this is just a disingenuous argument to get your team in power or to maintain liberal civility politics, in which case double Fuck You that you think people are abstract political tools.

Or, you actually believe this, and the freedom of an LGBT person here outweighs the lives of 2 million people, many LGBT, who happen to have had the extreme misfortune to be born 5 cm over the border and thus outside your ability to feel empathy.

In which case Triple Fuck You, because you are, somehow, more of a fascist than Trump. At least Trump is too incoherent to make a complete argument for fascist policy!

I’m going mad, I really am. How can people be streamed genocide live on CNN and just say “well, I guess we’re ok with genocide now!” Is the US public even human?! Even the fucking Germans had the good sense to pretend to look guilty after they lost.

  • NaevaTheRat@vegantheoryclub.orgEnglish
    19·
    12 tuntia sitten

    I’m an outsider and frankly I don’t get the weird hostility to being critical of the dems.

    Like if the election is so crucial isn’t now the time to hold them over the barrel to try change them? you can vote or not as you please and it’s all secret anyway so shouldn’t you threaten them with a loss unless they change policy? Even if secretly you do intend to vote for them should the threats fail as some sort of lesser of two evils?

    I don’t get it at all. But then your politics always seemed a bit nuts to me anyway. Very high feelings over the person who will export war and misery over the whole world while crushing the working class, or the person who will export war and misery over the whole world while crushing the working class and also being more explicitly racist.

      • NaevaTheRat@vegantheoryclub.orgEnglish
        7·
        10 tuntia sitten

        Indeed, hence why it would be nice if the people living there that apparently feel so strongly between very racist or racist warhawks did more to make their choices better.

        I know it’s not easy, and I don’t mean to be flippant, but the lib insistence to always back the Democrats and never try to actually wield power is very frustrating.

  • Gaia [She/Her]@lemmygrad.ml
    English
    14·
    11 tuntia sitten

    Absolutely

    I’m trans and she said she would “follow the law” when the law in my state says I can be discriminated on the basis of my transness, full stop.

    Harm reduction is a lie comfortable people tell themselves.

  • StalinStan [none/use name]@hexbear.netEnglish
    24·
    15 tuntia sitten

    The part where it breaks down for me is that that they talk about all the hypothetical stuff the DNC will do but it is all just fantasy. It is always stuff the DNC has never done or given any indication they will do. When you ask them about it they always just switch to talking about the bad stuff the gop will do that the DNC will not stop at all.

    • Palacegalleryratio [he/him]@hexbear.netEnglish
      19·
      15 tuntia sitten

      Ok, so why aren’t you doing that now? You’ve been in power for 4 years, why haven’t you started to do that already or actually done it? Or if whatever cause truly matters to you, why aren’t you now working on preventing the Republicans from doing the bad thing if they get into power? Like you should have done enshrining roe vs wade which you didn’t do. Why are you doing nothing just to dangle the threat of the republicans over us?

      • KenLin@lemmy.oneEnglish
        21·
        14 tuntia sitten

        They were in power for about a year and a half. Since then they’ve had a 50-50 Senate and Republican house. Can’t pass sweeping legislation when Congress is like that.

        • REgon [they/them]@hexbear.netEnglish
          6·
          5 tuntia sitten

          Wild how they’ve managed to make sweeping legislation regarding giving more money to cops, the military, Israel, Ukraine and the like. Funny how that seems to work. Funny how they’ve been able to massively expand fracking, probably just a little coincidence. A coincidence that’s probably the same as the one with them massively increasing deportations.
          Their hands are tied though! They just cannot do anything to help! They really want to though, but there’s just nothing to do! Oh well, better put massive tarrifs on cheap EVs and solar cells from China.

        • Rod_Blagojevic [none/use name]@hexbear.netEnglish
          12·
          12 tuntia sitten

          There’s other means to play hardball and get the votes you want, but it requires wielding power. I haven’t seen Biden threatening base closures, having the dept. of labor aggressively prosecute prominent, rich opposition figures, hold up highway funding, start adding supreme court judges, or do anything really.

          • FlocklesscrowEnglish
            6·
            7 tuntia sitten

            He definitely made sure to dredge up student loans from 20 years ago that schools have already discharged as bad debt and sent them over to collection agencies masquerading as the Dept of Education. WITH 20 years of interest.

            Of course now they’re threatening to release non payment info to credit agencies. Which they had explicitly said they would not do.

            It’s straight up extortion. The original loans were written off literally decades ago.

        • ihaveibs [he/him]@hexbear.netEnglish
          14·
          13 tuntia sitten

          So the democrats have shown themselves to be completely ineffective at passing legislation? So we shouldn’t vote for a party that has shown themselves to be incapable of getting anything done.

          Oh you mean the US political system is designed to gridlock everything and prevent anything from being done? Well first of all, how are they so easily able to pass legislation to sell weapons and deploy troops? And if it is true that everything is designed this way, surely that means we shouldn’t give a fuck at all about voting and we need to be doing everything possible to change our political system, right?

  • Palacegalleryratio [he/him]@hexbear.netEnglish
    31·
    15 tuntia sitten

    Personally I really like the whole: Republicans are the ‘Big Bad‘ that will destroy the country, end reproductive rights, start a war on LGBTQ+, end democracy, be the second coming of hitler etc…. And also we’re going to reach across the isle and have a republican in our government too. It’s like wtf? Are these guys bad? Or do you want to work with them? Which is it? I know that once we drop the keyfabe they’re all the same, perusing the same material and class interests, but their outward messaging is so incoherent. No wonder it doesn’t exactly resonate.

    • REgon [they/them]@hexbear.netEnglish
      11·
      14 tuntia sitten

      Not even the “we’re gonna reach across the aisle” but just, why aren’t they doing anything then? If democracy is truly really actually one election away, why have they done nothing to prepare for four years? If the republicans truly are so despicable, why have they let them become the only other viable party? Why are they doing nothing to crack down on these alleged anti-democracy fascists? If the republicans are doing all this shit, then that’s treason. Treat it like it. If they actually cared, they would’ve. If they actually gave a shit they would have cracked down on all the illegal shit republicans are doing, but they aren’t because they don’t care (and because they do it themselves.)

      Like if I thought they actually believed and cared that Trump would tear the US apart and end democracy, I’d be furious. Last election was won by a hair and they’ve done nothing to prepare since then. They talk about how republicans are infiltrating their beloved checks and balances… WHY AREN’T YOU STOPPING THEM THEN? WHY ARE YOU LETTING IT HAPPEN? WHY AREN’T YOU PUTTING IN MORE CHECKS AND BALANCES?
      It’s maddening to see obvious doublethink like that.

      Then they’ll say something like “oh we don’t have the power to do that, the president isn’t actually that powerful. Joe Biden can’t stop Trump like that.” THEN TRUMP CAN’T EITHER. “Oh well sure he can, because he won’t respect the institutions.” THEN DON’T RESPECT THE INSTITUTIONS. IF THEY CAN BE IGNORED THEY’RE NOT INSTITUTIONS, THEY’RE JUST DECORATIONS, FUCK THE AESTHETICS IF DEMOCRACY IS TRULY AT STAKE.

  • REgon [they/them]@hexbear.netEnglish
    38·
    14 tuntia sitten

    I don’t get how I can see people well into their 50’s talking about voting for the “lesser evil.” I always think of this Hunter S. Thompson quote:

    That’s the real issue this time," he said. “Beating Nixon. It’s hard to even guess how much damage those bastards will do if they get in for another four years.”

    The argument was familiar, I had even made it myself, here and there, but I was beginning to sense something very depressing about it. How many more of these goddamn elections are we going to have to write off as lame, but “regrettably necessary” holding actions? And how many more of these stinking double-downer sideshows will we have to go through before we can get ourselves straight enough to put together some kind of national election that will give me and the at least 20 million people I tend to agree with a chance to vote for something, instead of always being faced with that old familiar choice between the lesser of two evils?

    Now with another one of these big bogus showdowns looming down on us, I can already pick up the stench of another bummer. I understand, along with a lot of other people, that the big thing this year is Beating Nixon. But that was also the big thing, as I recall, twelve years ago in 1960 – and as far as I can tell, we’ve gone from bad to worse to rotten since then, and the outlook is for more of the same.

    That’s from Fear and Loathing: On the Campaign Trail from 1972
    50 years ago that was a tired argument. 50 years!

  • REgon [they/them]@hexbear.netEnglish
    32·
    18 tuntia sitten

    The idea that Trump would do something that would be worse than the Dems learning genocide is completely okay is weird to me.
    Like if the Dems get in while committing a genocide, why would one think they’d ever get better? If the line isn’t drawn at genocide then there is no line and the dems will know they don’t even got to pretend anymore.

    On top of that it’s wild to me how many people don’t wrap their head around the concept that voting legitimises the government. The US frequently uses “democracy” and amount of voters and so on to justify it’s foreign (and domestic to a lesser extent) policy. US politicians talk about representing their constituents, they talk about their voters, they use these things to make themselves accepted as rulers. The less people that vote for them the better.

    On top of all that it’s weird to see libs at the same time comprehend long(er) term thinking - “vote for Kamala so we at least have four years to organize/hope for a better candidate” and at the same time be able to understand why someone might vote third party, despite that candidate not being able to win.
    Or its not weird, its standard doublethink, but it’s fucking frustrating.

    • Gaia [She/Her]@lemmygrad.ml
      English
      7·
      11 tuntia sitten

      “four years to organize” is really rich coming from the people completely comfortable with a police state

      They literally want the competent fascist over an incompetent one that lacks a mandate from the voters. Demonic.

  • Frank [he/him, he/him]@hexbear.netEnglish
    47·
    19 tuntia sitten

    Honestly I’m not sure I’m even really processing how Libs are behaving right now. Like I’m pretty sure I’m in some kind of denial after the Libs derailed the uprising in '20 and killed MeToo, Abolish the Police, minimum wage, and public healthcare, plus they ended all attempts to even slow Covid down, and now they’re proudly, openly committing genocide in front of the whole world.

    It’s too much. It’s Fascism with bottomless mimosas.

  • glimmer_twin [he/him]@hexbear.netEnglish
    36·
    18 tuntia sitten

    The mental gymnastics are relatively simple, it’s:

    1. It’s not genocide
    2. If it is, it’s by accident
    3. If it’s not, they deserved it
    4. Trump is literally hitler I’m shaking and pissing this is the most important election of our lives

    Most people don’t even reach step 1 because they’re American and completely subconsciously dismiss the idea that foreign people exist or matter at all.

  • crispy_lol [he/him]@hexbear.netEnglish
    301·
    18 tuntia sitten

    I watched this tik tok that hit the top page of reddit where it was a lib making fun of leftists not voting for genocide and they jerked themselves off over making the point that “uh yeah honey, there will be a genocide whether trump or Kamala wins but Kamala will be better for your real financial situation”

    Yeah they’re built different lmfao their brains are room temp potato soup

    https://red.ngn.tf/r/TikTokCringe/s/SwaMOgN7wV

  • egg1918 [she/her]@hexbear.netEnglish
    32·
    19 tuntia sitten

    But then they lesser evil by going “Well if we don’t vote then Trump will do bad things to trans people here.”

    I saw that video this morning of her refusing to say anything in defense of us. They don’t even have this bullshit any more!

  • Yeat [he/him]@hexbear.netEnglish
    44·
    20 tuntia sitten

    It’s also very funny (not actually) because what is Harris going to do for LGBTQ people? Not that her or any Democrat’s symbolic rhetoric mean anything but have the words “transgender” even come out of her mouth this campaign?

    • Wertheimer [any]@hexbear.netEnglish
      491·
      19 tuntia sitten

      Zero states had banned gender affirming care when Trump was president. Under Biden, more than 20 have. He has done absolutely nothing for the people in those states.

        • Yeat [he/him]@hexbear.netEnglish
          16·
          17 tuntia sitten

          Wdym? Harris said she’d “proudly sign it into law” if congress passed a law protecting abortion, as you can see democrats are clearly fighting tooth and nail for women’s reproductive rights!

      • Yeat [he/him]@hexbear.netEnglish
        18·
        17 tuntia sitten

        Not to mention, Biden presided over the overturning of Roe v Wade and did absolutely nothing about it. The only thing Harris said she’d do about it is “sign a law if congress passes one” oh boy!

      • DragonBallZinn [he/him]@hexbear.netEnglish
        27·
        19 tuntia sitten

        I’m surprised Harris didn’t run on “we let you ban gender-affirming care! See, us dems aren’t so scary after all and totally in-touch with the working class and their priorities!”

    • GrumpigPoopBalls [he/him]@hexbear.netEnglish
      40·
      20 tuntia sitten

      nah they cut all of the actually good empty promises from the platform this year and replaced them with tough border measures and warmongering so that 17 republicans in suburban georgia would think about voting for Harris before deciding to go with trump

    • Jenniferrr [she/her, comrade/them]@hexbear.netEnglish
      27·
      19 tuntia sitten

      No literally it’s going to be “Not actively take away trans healthcare” so it’s a hostage situation.

      I’ll be honest as a trans woman I’m pretty nervous for Republicans to take power, as a self interested person. Dems clearly won’t do anything to help though and if the supreme court makes some ruling they won’t fight it.

      • eldavi@lemmy.mlEnglish
        7·
        10 tuntia sitten

        fwiw: it’ll be like living in the decades between reagan and bush (1980-2008) and this community still thrived enough to change popular sentiment about lgbt issues; despite the efforts of democrats like clinton & biden during that time.

        i was most active during those decades and every win, no matter how small, was deeply re-affirming and helped a lot in keeping us going.

        i hope that, in the future, the definition of an ally narrows to exclude anyone who thinks that democrats are automatically allies so that they can’t keep trotting us out like a show horse to prove how progressive democrats think they are.

    • eldavi@lemmy.mlEnglish
      6·
      15 tuntia sitten

      the same thing biden did with the respective for marriage act: nothing but political capital for themselves.

  • GarbageShoot [he/him]@hexbear.netEnglish
    40·
    20 tuntia sitten

    The thing I don’t see people saying enough is that there will be elections after Trump, and a vote for third parties that allows Trump to win is much less damaging in the long term than a vote that enables the rightward slide of the Democrats.

      • REgon [they/them]@hexbear.netEnglish
        10·
        16 tuntia sitten

        Which is funny considering the amount of tampering the democrats have done with their own primaries. “We’ll save democracy!” they say as they do everything they can to fuck over the candidate with popular support

      • Adkml [he/him]@hexbear.netEnglish
        26·
        19 tuntia sitten

        Which is exactly what they said last time. And then he gir elected. And then there were elections 4 years later and he got voted out.

      • jolliver_bromwell [she/her]@hexbear.netEnglish
        29·
        20 tuntia sitten

        I am seeing an awful lot of that. The actual impracticality of the mechanics of installing a forever dictator with germanic cosplay features in the us and the greater likelihood of tacit approval of non state actors enforcing small scale actions in a local context are lost on them because their minds are warped by cartoons and comic book movies and great man theory.

        Best response (if you have the energy) is to ask why they’re admitting that they’d throw away their principles and just accept fascism forever because of an election (even though you know why and they basically already do). Ask why they’re admitting they’d do nothing materially to fight back against fascism or protect the marginalized people they say they care so much about and let a demographic minority, especially in bluer areas, just go ham on everyone. It’s not likely to change many minds but it will remind them that they’re cowards with no real principles or goals besides protecting their status quo.

  • Angel [any]@hexbear.netEnglish
    77·
    22 tuntia sitten

    Liberals get so scratched when you tell them that you’re a marginalized person who wants them to fuck off.

    They love to exploit the hell out of the underprivileged (unless said underprivileged people are Arab Americans) to make their case as to why you have to vote

    Racial justice, women’s rights, and LGBTQ+ equality are all just tools they use to act as if they’re any less bourgeois, chauvinistic, and ultimately fascist in nature than Republicans.