Funny how that someone is often the same who assumes humanity is flawless when libertarianism! Could it be that those people are just greedy and selfish hypocrites? Nah!
Which is a very uninformed (or intentionally misleading) thing to say, because Communism from it’s very beginning has always assumed that there are bad actors and always will be, hence the whole dictatorship of the proletariat thing.
The idea (in theory) was that once the proleteriat seizes power, they would act akin to a dictator in ancient Rome, who would be given the extraordinary powers to handle extraordinary circumstances (such as, in this case, the (re)construction of society). It’s not implying totalitarian rule.
It’s also the state power to oppress counter revolutionaries and the former high class, often through violence and forced labour. That to me is a form of dictatorship, even if it does provide better conditions and freedom to much more people than the newly oppressed.
I’m not saying it to praise it or condemn it, I just think it’s a fact at this point.
I definitely don’t support the free market, don’t get me wrong. I’m just saying that many people have an entirely wrong understanding of what Communism is and criticize it as utopian, when it’s anything but. From it’s very definition it’s a system that assumes there are people willing to reach for more in expense of others, and that there will always be people willing to play dirty in order to achieve that.
It’s a tough system because it needs to counteract those forces.
I agree that a completely free market would not be in the best interest of the consumer, as it would very quickly delve into anti-competitive behaviour. A well functioning market of free enterprise requires competition.
Communism wont work because it will never be implemented. If a country ever implements true communism it will experience extreme brain drain and be left with only the most unskilled people.
If a country ever implements true communism it will experience extreme brain drain and be left with only the most unskilled people.
I’m not sure where you got this idea from. I’m not particularly informed on the subject, but when I look up the dictionary definition of communism, I get this:
a political theory derived from Karl Marx, advocating class war and leading to a society in which all property is publicly owned and each person works and is paid according to their abilities and needs.
Emphasis mine. If people with more ability are paid more, then they shouldn’t be flocking out of the country, right?
I believe you may be misinterpereting “from each according to his ability to each according to his need”. It’s not about giving those with more ability more than those with less ability but instead to redistribute the fruits of labour, generated by those according to their ability, to those according to their need.
Why even work hard if you cant spend the money to own something/start a business. What will you spend the money on? The good of humanity? Get out of of here with that bullshit. If my country inplements communism im leaving on a first plane to a place where my skills will benefit me.
My understanding, however limited, is that “property” means something different in this context. Essentially, it means things like real estate and businesses, things that make money. You can own food, clothes, a TV, watches, a car, whatever you want, as long as it doesn’t make money.
If you wanted to start a business, you probably could, and you wouldn’t need to pay for it. The State would own the business, and you would be paid to run that business. This absolves you of all the risk associated with it, and you get paid more than a grocery store shelf stocker because you’re doing a harder job, and thus demonstrating greater ability.
So you’re dependant on the government and can’t (not allowed to) do anything about it. Sounds great. My car can make money, my computer can make money, but i guess im not allowed to do it if big daddy Lenin doesn’t want me to.
…From you using it. That’s not private property. That’s a tool. It only becomes private property if you plan to rent it out or employ others to work it for you.
but i guess im not allowed to do it if big daddy Lenin doesn’t want me to.
???
People who can will leave in flocks.
Leave what? You didn’t even describe a system, there. Those were vague buzzwords.
Yeah because they are promised gainful employment to escape tge Material Conditions capitalism created for them. Then they get to Dubai have thete passports taken by their employer and are effectively slaves. You really dont know jack shit about Communism do you? 🙃
“Communism won’t work because I only work for selfish gain so everyone else must be the same as me. Anyone who says they’d work for non-selfish reasons must be lying because I’m selfish and everyone else must be just like me. And if they set up a society where selfishness wasn’t the main motivator, I’d be out of there to go where I could still be selfish. Therefore communism is bullshit.”
Communist societies have had their problems but this has never been a good argument.
It’s ok comrade. Uninformed peoole often says so, but the braindrain in communism has been accouted for. A bit of a barbed wire, some dogs, a few guys with daddy issues and a gun will stop any brains crossing the border. /s
Its like when someone uses human greed as a reason Communism wont work.
Funny how that someone is often the same who assumes humanity is flawless when libertarianism! Could it be that those people are just greedy and selfish hypocrites? Nah!
They’re pretty much similarly utopian but the neat thing is we can work towards both at the same time.
Which is a very uninformed (or intentionally misleading) thing to say, because Communism from it’s very beginning has always assumed that there are bad actors and always will be, hence the whole dictatorship of the proletariat thing.
That’s, to put it mildly, not what that phrase means.
What do you mean?
The idea (in theory) was that once the proleteriat seizes power, they would act akin to a dictator in ancient Rome, who would be given the extraordinary powers to handle extraordinary circumstances (such as, in this case, the (re)construction of society). It’s not implying totalitarian rule.
It’s also the state power to oppress counter revolutionaries and the former high class, often through violence and forced labour. That to me is a form of dictatorship, even if it does provide better conditions and freedom to much more people than the newly oppressed.
I’m not saying it to praise it or condemn it, I just think it’s a fact at this point.
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Free Market is as much of a fairy tale as Communism, for exactly the same reasons.
I definitely don’t support the free market, don’t get me wrong. I’m just saying that many people have an entirely wrong understanding of what Communism is and criticize it as utopian, when it’s anything but. From it’s very definition it’s a system that assumes there are people willing to reach for more in expense of others, and that there will always be people willing to play dirty in order to achieve that.
It’s a tough system because it needs to counteract those forces.
I agree that a completely free market would not be in the best interest of the consumer, as it would very quickly delve into anti-competitive behaviour. A well functioning market of free enterprise requires competition.
Communism wont work because it will never be implemented. If a country ever implements true communism it will experience extreme brain drain and be left with only the most unskilled people.
I’m not sure where you got this idea from. I’m not particularly informed on the subject, but when I look up the dictionary definition of communism, I get this:
Emphasis mine. If people with more ability are paid more, then they shouldn’t be flocking out of the country, right?
I believe you may be misinterpereting “from each according to his ability to each according to his need”. It’s not about giving those with more ability more than those with less ability but instead to redistribute the fruits of labour, generated by those according to their ability, to those according to their need.
Why even work hard if you cant spend the money to own something/start a business. What will you spend the money on? The good of humanity? Get out of of here with that bullshit. If my country inplements communism im leaving on a first plane to a place where my skills will benefit me.
My understanding, however limited, is that “property” means something different in this context. Essentially, it means things like real estate and businesses, things that make money. You can own food, clothes, a TV, watches, a car, whatever you want, as long as it doesn’t make money.
If you wanted to start a business, you probably could, and you wouldn’t need to pay for it. The State would own the business, and you would be paid to run that business. This absolves you of all the risk associated with it, and you get paid more than a grocery store shelf stocker because you’re doing a harder job, and thus demonstrating greater ability.
So you’re dependant on the government and can’t (not allowed to) do anything about it. Sounds great. My car can make money, my computer can make money, but i guess im not allowed to do it if big daddy Lenin doesn’t want me to.
People who can will leave in flocks.
How, exactly?
What do you mean by “do something about it”?
…From you using it. That’s not private property. That’s a tool. It only becomes private property if you plan to rent it out or employ others to work it for you.
???
Leave what? You didn’t even describe a system, there. Those were vague buzzwords.
But that degrades a person to a child. A child can own a trinket or two, but for anything of real value, there’s mommy and daddy.
Which fits perfectly well with my hypothesis, that the majority of people actually don’t want a government. They want a babysitter to watch over them.
I hear Dubai is looking for day laborers! Im sure the lack of regulations make it a great place for workers!
There are places in the world other than commieland and dubai.
And yet, people are still coming there voluntarily. But that word is missing from the communist dictionary.
The will of a worker is nothing under the communism. It’s always about some abstract mythical collective.
Yeah because they are promised gainful employment to escape tge Material Conditions capitalism created for them. Then they get to Dubai have thete passports taken by their employer and are effectively slaves. You really dont know jack shit about Communism do you? 🙃
“Communism won’t work because I only work for selfish gain so everyone else must be the same as me. Anyone who says they’d work for non-selfish reasons must be lying because I’m selfish and everyone else must be just like me. And if they set up a society where selfishness wasn’t the main motivator, I’d be out of there to go where I could still be selfish. Therefore communism is bullshit.”
Communist societies have had their problems but this has never been a good argument.
You underestimate how selfish an average human is
Of course you can. Why would you assume otherwise?
Oh, I see now…
By “own something”, you mean private property, don’t you? The freedom to extract rent is important to you, I’m guessing?
And by “start a business”, what you mean is “exploit people for profit”, am I right?
I mean agree with a person (not force them) that they can live on my property in exchange for money.
Also agree with someone (not force them) that they can work for me in exchange for money.
So, exactly what I said. Noted. You want the “freedom” to survive off someone else’s work, while not having to work yourself.
Freedom to me is being able to own your own home, and not having the wealth you created stolen by some absent owner.
stolen? noone is forcing you to rent
First off, that wealth being stolen comment is about capitalist extracting surplus value from workers.
Also, the state is forcing me to rent, or otherwise live on the street. I am unable to mortgage due to bad credit. Renting is the only option.
It’s ok comrade. Uninformed peoole often says so, but the braindrain in communism has been accouted for. A bit of a barbed wire, some dogs, a few guys with daddy issues and a gun will stop any brains crossing the border. /s