whywhywhywhywhy vote

che-cigar Votes are earned.

  • kool_newt
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    1
    ·
    1 year ago

    Chain link fences are useless. See I can spout random statements that sound like facts too.

    • BurgerPunk [he/him, comrade/them]@hexbear.net
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      14
      ·
      edit-2
      1 year ago

      michael-laugh the political compass was invented solely to make “right libertarianism” look like a real ideology. It was pushed by billionaire money into schools to rot peoples brains. Its not real and provides no insight, it only furthers political illiteracy in the US. Its not a random statement, its a bullshit concept

      • kool_newt
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        1
        ·
        1 year ago

        Is right libertarianism not a real ideology? I recognize that it’s awful, but that doesn’t mean it’s not a political position that can be taken. I only use the political compass because it seems more useful than the simple left-right spectrum.

        I might say Marxists denigrate the political compass because it lays bare the authoritarianism of the position and the fact that communism is bigger than that specific position.

        If there is a system that works better, please give me a link.

        • BurgerPunk [he/him, comrade/them]@hexbear.net
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          11
          ·
          edit-2
          1 year ago

          Your buying into the central assumption that their is such a thing as authoritarianism. All governments are authoritarian its a meaningless distiction in political economy.

          Right libertarianism is a bullshit ideology, because its just liberalism.

          The system that works better is just reality. Understanding that political economy is a single entity not separate axis

          • kool_newt
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            1
            ·
            1 year ago

            Your buying into the central assumption that their is such a thing as authoritarianism

            What!? Are you claiming there is no such thing as authoritarianism? What do you call it when one group of people claims more territory then they need for themselves and then claims they have the right to use violence to get their way and you don’t?

            All governments are authoritarian its a meaningless distiction in political economy.

            If you see government as the only way politics can exist I guess that would make sense. You really should learn about anarchism.

            Right libertarianism is a bullshit ideology, because its just liberalism.

            Libertarianism is about maximizing autonomy and reducing or eliminating state power. The reasons why one might want those things, and the methods used to attain and maintain them make a distinction between left and right libertarianism.

            • BurgerPunk [he/him, comrade/them]@hexbear.net
              link
              fedilink
              English
              arrow-up
              14
              ·
              1 year ago

              Libertarianism is about maximizing autonomy and reducing or eliminating state power. The reasons why one might want those things, and the methods used to attain and maintain them make a distinction between left and right libertarianism.

              This is exactly my problem with the political compass and why i said it was bullshit to start with. You are defining libertarianism as an ideology that can only be described by the political compass. Methods and distictions that are only meaningful if you sunder the concept of political economy. That’s why i said its only purpose is to make “right libertarianism” seem like a real ideology when its just liberalism

              • kool_newt
                link
                fedilink
                English
                arrow-up
                1
                ·
                1 year ago

                I’ve read this, I just think it’s wrong. Marx isn’t a god, he not everything he said is unquestionable truth.

    • BurgerPunk [he/him, comrade/them]@hexbear.net
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      9
      ·
      1 year ago

      Just to point out how bullshit it is.

      There was a thread maybe a month back where we all took the test and everyone is “left libertarian,” because the entire design of this thing is ridiculous.

      • kool_newt
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        1
        ·
        1 year ago

        Ah, ok I think I see where some of your problems with this come from and where our disagreements come from.

        You and many others see the political compass and the questions as one and the same. I’m seeing the compass square itself as a tool, the same way way I view the left-right political spectrum. The tool is distinct from any set of questions one might ask to locate an individual on the scale.

        The fact that some horrible person or group came up with a tool doesn’t make that tool inherently useless. Now the questions they ask, sure, those are probably stupid and problematic.

        Ignore the stupid questions and website and use the squares the same way you use the spectrum. Don’t throw the baby out with the bathwater.

          • kool_newt
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            1
            ·
            1 year ago

            Ok, please tell me the problems you have with the political compass disregarding the website and questions. If it’s so flawed, you should easily be able to point them out right?

            • BurgerPunk [he/him, comrade/them]@hexbear.net
              link
              fedilink
              English
              arrow-up
              18
              ·
              1 year ago

              I already have told you. Political economy is one thing not two separate axis. Promoting the opposite is promoting political illiteracy, which is the “tools” whole point. Its not educating its obfuscating.

              • kool_newt
                link
                fedilink
                English
                arrow-up
                1
                ·
                1 year ago

                I’d say your obfuscating by conflating politics and economics. Sure they are closely related and thus the X,Y graph, but they are not the same. Neither of us is the arbiter of truth so I guess we’ll have to agree to disagree here.

                • BurgerPunk [he/him, comrade/them]@hexbear.net
                  link
                  fedilink
                  English
                  arrow-up
                  30
                  ·
                  1 year ago

                  I’d say your obfuscating by conflating politics and economics

                  You could say that, but only because you’ve fundamentally bought in to a right wing framing through belief a right wing propaganda tool.

                  Neither of us is the arbiter of truth

                  Ok? Thats a complete thought terminating cliche. No one has to be the sole arbiter of truth to say things that are true about our material reality.

                  I didn’t invent the concept of political economy. If you think its obfuscation, take it up with the political theorists of the 17th and 18th centuries and the socialist theorists of the 19th who drew on their work.

                  I’m not inventing things and arbiting truth, im talking about actual theory and not propaganda models, that have clearly worked in your case.

                  Sure they are closely related and thus the X,Y graph, but they are not the same

                  This is the problem with the political compass, and its entire reason for existing. Its to decouple politics from economics and create a belief that some things are similar or related when they are not - a flattening of political understanding to render people illiterate.

                  The use of “authoritarianism” as an axis - a word that is not meaningfully definable - is only used to perpetuate the Cold War mythologies of communists being the same as nazis. Just like double genocide theory, this view of politics is ultimately nazi apologia.

                  On the reverse, it serves to legitimize “right libertarianism” by flattening peoples understanding to make it look like it has something in common with actual ideological traditions like anarchism. As a professed anarchist, you should abhor this flattening and equivocation and the model that promotes it. I’m not personally an anarchist, but i find it disgusting how they’ve sought legitimacy by trying to tie themselves to actual intellectual and political tendencies.

                  • kool_newt
                    link
                    fedilink
                    English
                    arrow-up
                    1
                    ·
                    1 year ago

                    Fair argument, I disagree. Tools are for measuring things, disagreeing with something doesn’t mean it shouldn’t be learned about, measured, and viewed in context. If you have a better tool that contains virtually all positions without simply leaving out those you disagree with please show me.

                  • kool_newt
                    link
                    fedilink
                    English
                    arrow-up
                    1
                    ·
                    1 year ago

                    Rad fash has completely broken yours. “Your rich powerful guy is evil, mine is righteous and we should kill you all if you don’t fall in line behind my guy” is what your ideology boils down to.

                • CyborgMarx [any, any]@hexbear.net
                  link
                  fedilink
                  English
                  arrow-up
                  18
                  ·
                  1 year ago

                  obfuscating by conflating politics and economics

                  How do you type this out without spotting the obvious absurdity, just what do you think the point of politics is?

                  There can be no conflation because politics and economics are inseparable, like how hardware and software are inseparable components of computerization

                  Every civilization has a mode of production that allows said civilization to reproduce itself, and that reproduction is implemented as a matter of political will shaped thru the realities of whatever specific mode defines the civilization, it’s not a “close relationship” that may or may not interact depending on some vacuum context, instead politics and economics are literal embodiments of each other that always interact in the physical world humans inhabit

                  • kool_newt
                    link
                    fedilink
                    English
                    arrow-up
                    1
                    ·
                    1 year ago

                    what do you think the point of politics is?

                    Power

                  • kool_newt
                    link
                    fedilink
                    English
                    arrow-up
                    1
                    ·
                    1 year ago

                    Explain why you think class dynamics --> social issues is a one-way street. Change can and does flow both ways.