Judaism is a closed religion, lighting candles for Hanukkah is one thing and that’s cool if you want to partake in some fun. Saying prayers over those candles is markedly different and definitely appropriation.
There’s a whole part of Passover, inviting in strangers and caring for them, as we would have liked when we were strangers in Egypt. Entire sections of the Haggadah are didactic exercises for Jewish children, AND anyone invited to the sedar who doesn’t know it’s history.
When Judaism is closed it’s because we’re hiding from people who want us gone, not because we’re some secret society.
Yes, we leave the door open for those in need and my family invites non Jews annually to join. They aren’t praying or leading the prayers, that’s not their place.
Judaism is a closed religion because it’s handed down by birth or conversion, not because we’re hiding.
I wouldn’t call it appropriation. Appropriation would be claiming those weren’t Jewish prayers or a menorah, they were Christian (or whatever).
A non-Jew saying Hebrew prayers doesn’t offend me. My non-Jewish wife has done it before because she got a masters in folklore and wanted to take part. She didn’t claim it as her own, she just took part in the ceremony. And plenty of non-Jewish spouses of Jews have done the same thing.
Honestly, if you’re curious and you want to take part in Jewish ceremonies, go for it. Judaism is not as closed as you think. If it was, you wouldn’t have famous converts like Sammy Davis, Jr. and Isla Fisher (and Ivanka Trump, unfortunately). It’s not a simple process like turning around three times and saying “I’m a Jew!” but it’s not exactly a ridiculous challenge either.
A non Jew saying Jewish prayers is absolutely appropriation. There’s a rather clear line of thinking surrounding this in the greater Jewish community especially amongst the rabbinical crowd, and the Messianics are a rather large part of it.
Rabbis aren’t popes. They don’t get to decide what is or is not offensive to Jews in general. Sure, very religious Jews might have a problem with it. And I could not care less what they think. Especially when they’re the minority in the U.S.
62% of self-described American Jews say being Jewish is mainly a matter of ancestry and culture, while just 15% say it is mainly a matter of religion. Even among Jews by religion, 55% say being Jewish is mainly a matter of ancestry and culture, while 66% say it is not necessary to believe in God to be Jewish.[3]
Do you honestly think most Jews would have a big problem with my wife saying a blessing over the menorah when most of them don’t even think you have to believe in a god? I guarantee you more Jews were offended by Bradley Cooper playing Leonard Bernstein with a prosthetic nose than they would be over a non-Jew saying a Hebrew prayer.
Rabbi’s aren’t Pope’s and they’re born to argue so when the vast majority of them clearly state that a non Jew saying Jewish prayers is contrary to the principles of the religion then I’m going to accept that as a religious decree.
So yea your non jewish wife saying the bracha is a problem. You’re welcome to practice as you see fit, no one’s going to pull your Jew card over it but that doesn’t make it halacha/Kosher/ cool or any other version of acceptable.
Why do the people who devote their lives to studying the scriptures of the religion get to be the ones who decide what’s acceptable within the religion and what’s not?
Because they’re literally the subject matter experts. It’s also pretty damn clear in the tanach too. In order to perform the mitzvah you need to be Jewish.
I’m not offended by how you choose to practice your religion, I’m pointing out that what you’re doing is absolutely cultural appropriation and off sides with the understood practice of the religion as a whole. You’re the one who seems to be offended by being called out on this, and that’s for you to come to grips with not me.
There’s like 3 dozen angles to why your shiksa wife and kids shouldn’t be saying brachot. It’s more of a fact based gish gallop than moving the goal posts.
And yes Rabbi’s as the stewards of Judaism get to make the call what’s authentically Jewish and what’s not. That you’re unaware of these basic tenets of your culture and heritage is pretty fucking weird.
As I said above, you’re welcome to keep larp’ing as a Jewish family but you’re just lying to yourself and others. You seem to be really offended by this fact, maybe seeking counsel from a rabbi would help you with your conflicted emotions.
Judaism is a closed religion, lighting candles for Hanukkah is one thing and that’s cool if you want to partake in some fun. Saying prayers over those candles is markedly different and definitely appropriation.
There’s a whole part of Passover, inviting in strangers and caring for them, as we would have liked when we were strangers in Egypt. Entire sections of the Haggadah are didactic exercises for Jewish children, AND anyone invited to the sedar who doesn’t know it’s history.
When Judaism is closed it’s because we’re hiding from people who want us gone, not because we’re some secret society.
Yes, we leave the door open for those in need and my family invites non Jews annually to join. They aren’t praying or leading the prayers, that’s not their place.
Judaism is a closed religion because it’s handed down by birth or conversion, not because we’re hiding.
I wouldn’t call it appropriation. Appropriation would be claiming those weren’t Jewish prayers or a menorah, they were Christian (or whatever).
A non-Jew saying Hebrew prayers doesn’t offend me. My non-Jewish wife has done it before because she got a masters in folklore and wanted to take part. She didn’t claim it as her own, she just took part in the ceremony. And plenty of non-Jewish spouses of Jews have done the same thing.
Honestly, if you’re curious and you want to take part in Jewish ceremonies, go for it. Judaism is not as closed as you think. If it was, you wouldn’t have famous converts like Sammy Davis, Jr. and Isla Fisher (and Ivanka Trump, unfortunately). It’s not a simple process like turning around three times and saying “I’m a Jew!” but it’s not exactly a ridiculous challenge either.
A non Jew saying Jewish prayers is absolutely appropriation. There’s a rather clear line of thinking surrounding this in the greater Jewish community especially amongst the rabbinical crowd, and the Messianics are a rather large part of it.
Rabbis aren’t popes. They don’t get to decide what is or is not offensive to Jews in general. Sure, very religious Jews might have a problem with it. And I could not care less what they think. Especially when they’re the minority in the U.S.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_atheism
Do you honestly think most Jews would have a big problem with my wife saying a blessing over the menorah when most of them don’t even think you have to believe in a god? I guarantee you more Jews were offended by Bradley Cooper playing Leonard Bernstein with a prosthetic nose than they would be over a non-Jew saying a Hebrew prayer.
Rabbi’s aren’t Pope’s and they’re born to argue so when the vast majority of them clearly state that a non Jew saying Jewish prayers is contrary to the principles of the religion then I’m going to accept that as a religious decree.
So yea your non jewish wife saying the bracha is a problem. You’re welcome to practice as you see fit, no one’s going to pull your Jew card over it but that doesn’t make it halacha/Kosher/ cool or any other version of acceptable.
Why do Rabbis get to declare what is cultural appropriation when only 15% of American Jews say Judaism is about religion?
It sounds like you are offended by it. I would love some evidence that the general Jewish population agrees with you.
Why do the people who devote their lives to studying the scriptures of the religion get to be the ones who decide what’s acceptable within the religion and what’s not?
Because they’re literally the subject matter experts. It’s also pretty damn clear in the tanach too. In order to perform the mitzvah you need to be Jewish.
I’m not offended by how you choose to practice your religion, I’m pointing out that what you’re doing is absolutely cultural appropriation and off sides with the understood practice of the religion as a whole. You’re the one who seems to be offended by being called out on this, and that’s for you to come to grips with not me.
I like how you keep ignoring the fact that the vast majority of Jews clearly don’t give a shit about what Rabbis think.
Basically you’re saying that Rabbis get to decide what Jews consider to be cultural appropriation and Jews as a whole do not.
Which is nonsense.
There’s like 3 dozen angles to why your shiksa wife and kids shouldn’t be saying brachot. It’s more of a fact based gish gallop than moving the goal posts.
And yes Rabbi’s as the stewards of Judaism get to make the call what’s authentically Jewish and what’s not. That you’re unaware of these basic tenets of your culture and heritage is pretty fucking weird.
As I said above, you’re welcome to keep larp’ing as a Jewish family but you’re just lying to yourself and others. You seem to be really offended by this fact, maybe seeking counsel from a rabbi would help you with your conflicted emotions.