Rep. Pramila Jayapal, the head of the Congressional Progressive Caucus, on Saturday condemned Israel as a racist state, warning activists that there is an organized opposition against progressive critics of Israel’s policy towards the Palestinians.
The sharp criticism from the lawmaker from Washington state marks among the highest-level condemnations of Israel, as several members of her caucus plan to boycott Israel President Isaac Herzog’s address to a joint session of Congress later this week.
Speaking on a panel at Netroots Nation, an annual progressive activist conference in Chicago, Jayapal was addressing pro-Palestinian attendees interrupting the session.
She’s correct. Fuck Israel. (inb4 someone calls me an antisemite bc they conflate hating the nation of Israel to hating Jews which is the dumbest fucking thing ever, bc I am American and I hate the American government so I guess I hate myself and everyone who lives here?)
Kicking people off their land so your own people can move in has a term, it’s called ethnic cleansing. It is considered a crime against humanity under the genocide convention.
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Damn, try to relax. I think they were agreeing with you and just adding too the conversation.
Accusing me of wanting ethnic cleansing doesn’t sound like agreeing with me in any sane world.
They were clearly not accusing you in any way, it’s weird that you’re so intent on taking offense and fl freaking out about it
a significant amount of jews moved to mandatory palestine before israel was even established, due to the loose immigration laws. the other portion of the israeli population arrived as refugees in the 50s after several states in the middle east expelled their jewish populations post independance. the people kicked out of their homes are not being kicked out for forigners to move in usually, but rather for native israelis to move into, though there are some small american groups in the west bank settler movement. (i am not pro israel or pro palestine, just trying to educate people)
Right. Let me kick you out of your house that you’ve had for generations because I can “claim” the land as mine as my ancestors resided there a thousand years ago. This is the dumbest argument to justify ethnic cleansing. Stop trying to pass this revisionist idiocy off as “education”.
because I can “claim” the land as mine as my ancestors resided there a thousand years ago
Actually, the Jewish National Fund purchased land from subjects of the Ottoman Empire. Often when the Jews showed up to claim their purchase, they found that there were Palestinian Arabs living there. That’s a result of misappropriations under the Ottoman Land Act of 1858.
That doesn’t make the situation any less horrible, but it’s a far cry from the way you describe it.
I’ll need a source on this claim.
Alot of pro palestine people exadurate the situation emensely, which loses them supporters in the general public.
I think people are just ignorant of the deep, complex historical roots of the conflict. That’s not a personal failing; ignorance can be treated with education. The Israeli-Palestinian conflict is very difficult to understand. I just wish people would take a little time to think about their blind spots before commenting on it.
Yeah, theres misinformation coming from both sides on this issue.
Those practices mostly started in 48 during the nakba, and resumed after the six day war, predominently done in the west bank now, and in 48 in the panhandle near jerusalem.
Look up Theodor Herzl. He is the father of Zionism and is buried in Israel’s national cemetery.
Im sure many moved for ideological reasons, but that number is dwarfed by the amount that immigrated due to the loose laws.
Hey everyone don’t miss this guy right here! He’s a giant anti-American.
If he don’t like it he can go to Somalia or something… USA USA
Russian Jew here that hates Israel. Can confirm fuck Israel.
You’ve got a twofer of being represented by shitty governments
Is there a government that isn’t shitty? American here. It’s all I’ve ever known. Strongly considering moving to South East Asia because it’s a little less imperial-y. But I fully expect to be disappointed by the government in all kinds of new ways.
Being Russian, he is not represented by the Israeli government, so it is not, in fact, a twofer.
People use antisemitism accusations to defend the evil the Israeli government does. It’s not antisemitic to recognize that kicking people out of their homes and having an open air prison city based on religion is evil.
Jews are generally cool people, and I’m friends with just about every single one I’ve ever met. Israel is a racist state actively and gleefully committing genocide. It’s pretty annoying that Israel constantly using antisemitism as a shield effectively forces all criticism of Israel to immediately and preemptively justify itself as not being anti-Jew. You can, in fact, hate Israel without hating Jewish people. It’s tragically ironic that Israel ended up becoming a fascist state committing ethnic cleansing when Jews are the most well-known contemporary victim of genocide. But Israelis themselves seem perfectly fine with the hypocrisy.
I am firmly anti-Russia, but I don’t hate Russians. I am anti-China, but I don’t hate Chinese people. I am anti-Israel, but I don’t hate Israelis or Jewish people.
I doubt the vast majority of Americans would bat an eye at the first two statements. Why is the third one somehow more problematic than the first two?
As a secular Jew in the diaspora, I do wish Zionists would keep me out of their political games, but frankly, there’s a contingent of people who conflate diaspora Jews, or Jews in general, with the Israeli state. I encounter this frequently with a Pakistani friend of mine, but the mindset is widespread among religious and political dogmatists of many stripes. This type of thinking long predates the establishment of Israel, and has flared throughout history in some terrible ways, so it’s understandable why Jews would be sensitive to it, and Jews who support Israel would be just as incapable of separating their religious identity from Israel as antisemitic conspiracy theorists are. The land is part of our identity, and the Zionist project is (for many) a triumph of Jewish national identity and a beacon of hope for safety from antisemitic violence. The fact, then, that Zionism has always, since the latter half of the 19th century, gained at the violent expense of Palestinian Arabs, is a cruel irony, and utterly unconscionable for any Jew with a shred of ethical fortitude.
In short, it’s hard for many reasons and for many people, Jewish and otherwise, to separate Israel from Jewish identity. When Jews do it, it’s counterproductive to the cause of eliminating antisemitism. When non-Jews do it, it provides Jews with another reason to continue to be on high alert. One reinforces the other.
It’s a bit of a conspiracy theory, maybe, but I definitely feel that Israel and Zionists don’t necessarily do absolutely everything they could to prevent people conflating Jews and Israel.
I’ve heard other diaspora Jews complain before that they feel Israel is a bit too presumptuous in speaking for them.
Jon Stewart denounces Israel’s apartheid of Palestine. People usually without biases notice.
maybe ethnic cleansing, but genocide would be an innacurate term to describe what is happening in the west bank.
It is almost unheard of for US representatives to publicly criticise Israel. Is she quitting next election or something?
She’s very very safe here in Seattle, I can tell you that.
Awesome. Let’s keep her around a while.
Trump upset the balance. Support for Israel used to be bipartisan, but Trump was so extreme in his pro Israel support that Democrats took the opposite position.
Edit: not sure why people are downvoting for this. Support for Israel used to be nearly unanimous in Congress before Trump. The Squad and others came into office as a result of Trump, and they weren’t afraid to criticize Israel. Trump told Israel to ban them and they did, blocking Rashida Tlaib from visiting her family and causing a wave of criticism in Congress, creating a visible rift between the parties. Democrats weren’t punished for criticizing Israel and the Israel lobby wasn’t able to pressure them as much anymore for fear of angering Biden.
I think it’s more to do with Israel’s behavior becoming so blatantly repulsive they’re easier to criticize and also the fucking Boomers are finally thinning out.
Absolutely. It’s become harder and harder to justify the pure evil that is the Israeli state. And the fact that so many Israelis are open about killing women and children.
Maybe it’s less about Trump and more about Netanyahu and his very conservative buddies dismantling the only checks to his power while stepping up settlements. There are lots of reasons to criticise Isreal that have nothing to do with American political divisions. The Israeli’s themselves were protesting in large numbers just last week.
I think it’s more that people are catching onto israel’s BS. If it was actually trump’s doing then it’d be one of the few good things he has done but I think it’s just a timing coincidence.
Far right trolls everywhere damn. We need a feature that hides severely downvoted comments.
I sure hope you’re not referring to me as a far right troll lol.
I think he’s referring to the people who downvoted you.
Edit: nevermind, I misread. He was referring to you somehow.
The Democratic Majority for Israel has been killing progressive primary candidates with attack ads who might even challenge US support for Israel while it continues to expand settlements and oppress Palestinians. These attack ads never speak about the candidate’s policy on Israel. And it’s a Super Pac, so it doesn’t have to reveal its donors or how much they donated although the PAC version showcases that the PAC at least is being largely funded by a person who donates to Republican senators. Yay for Citizens United! </sarcasm>
Mellmann, the creator of the Super PAC and PAC doesn’t believe that the US and US politicians should ever be critical of Israel, Israeli policies, or Israeli treatment of Palestinians, should ever make the $3.8B sent there annually have any sort of strings attached, and that there should be any sort of movement against Israel’s illegal occupation and refusal of Palestinian refugees right to return (ethnic cleansing 101) akin to the movement against South African apartheid.
Look, Israel is the birthplace of Judaism (and Christianity). It is and always will be the home of Judaism and its followers. I think whatever happens in the future, that should be a cardinal rule. But a theocratic democracy is not possible, especially one where you’re freaking out about becoming a minority and seem to think people of a certain religion or ancestry are more privileged in law and the courts.
But do you know who else has been in Israel-Palestine and the rest of the Canaanite region since the Bronze Age (the same as the Ancient Israelites)? Palestinians. Israel-Palestine is just as much their home as it is for any descendant of the Ancient Israelites (and so this should be another cardinal rule whatever happens in the future). Just because their religion today is Islam and their language is Arabic instead of some sort of Canaanite religion doesn’t mean they deserve their home any less.
Like people didn’t stay there and change religions and languages after Rome took out the Jewish government in AD 70 and people warred over the region over the next couple of millennia.
And even if they weren’t descendants of Canaanites, they would have been living there for nearly 2000 years, longer than Israelites can traced as a distinct people before AD 70. And even if it wasn’t 2000 years, but just 200 years, you don’t get to displace or oppress people whatever their ancestor’s relationship to the land is. The reality is that they’re there and that’s all they’ve ever known. And that’s enough whether Palestinian, Uyghur, Rohingya, or Jewish in Europe and America and Middle East over the millennia.
more people should boycot israel for their treatment toward Palestine.
People should boycot China for their treatment of Uyghurs and Tibetans, and there’s so much to boycott… From Israel is just too easy for the average consumer, in fact the difficulty might be finding something made in Israel.
Huh. I guess right now, this is the one sole Democrat representative I have respect for. At least someone’s willing to speak the truth of Israel’s manifesting their destiny all over Palestine.
Bernie has his moments. AOC briefly had hers. Ilhan Omar is consistently on point. Despite Pelosi throwing her under the bus.
I mean, there’s also Rashida Talib who is even more outspoken.
Right now, “the Squad” is quite outside my graces ever since the ratfucking of the rail unions.
We don’t get to see behind closed doors. I get it, and I feel the same way, but rail workers have been getting some things they asked for, but their right to protest was also undermined. What should have happened is the government forces the rail companies to give into the union demands, not the other way around, but that was likely never an option with the current government. If they got the best deal possible for the rail workers by publicly cooperating, whatever. They are a hugely important part of the economy (hence, they should get their way if they’re that important), so the government wasn’t going to let it shut down.
I don’t even necessarily agree their right to protest was undermined. There were 12 unions negotiating during that period. Only four of them were wanting the strike to continue. It’s a weird situation, and you’re right, we can’t pretend to know what went on behind closed doors. But to me, it looked like 4 unions were trying to hold the rest hostage and force everyone to keep striking when they didn’t want to.
Regardless, this certainly isn’t something anyone should be villainizing The Squad for. They’ve done more for progressive rights than any group of congresspeople in recent memory. People who are still salty over it should maybe take a moment of introspection and figure out if they actually think The Squad are bad people, or if maybe Right wing media got ahold of the one time they weren’t 100% on the side of unions and workers and ran it into the ground as a way to diminish support for them.
To me, it’s almost certainly the latter.
https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politics/congress-votes-to-avert-rail-strike-amid-dire-warnings
But to me, it looked like 4 unions were trying to hold the rest hostage and force everyone to keep striking when they didn’t want to.
Those 4 unions represented a majority of the workers.
Do you have the exact numbers handy? That’s not something I’d heard. Not saying you’re wrong, I’d just like to see the actual breakdown.
Regardless, I think my overall stance will stay the same. This isn’t a black and white issue. And I still trust them FAR more than anyone else in Congress. Even if they didn’t get all the workers everything they asked for once. And let’s be clear, the workers still got a lot from those negotiations. They’re in a much better spot now than they were. No, it doesn’t mean the fight is over, but the wheel of progress turns slowly, especially when one party is throwing every resource they have to get it to spin backwards. Small wins are still wins.
Or to put it in American terms: you can win by 5 touchdowns or a single extra point, either way, your record looks the same. Sure, it feels better to win by blowout. But it feels a LOT worse to lose.
Do you have the exact numbers handy? That’s not something I’d heard. Not saying you’re wrong, I’d just like to see the actual breakdown.
This article says that the 4 unions represent 60,000 workers out of 115,000:
https://www.npr.org/2022/11/21/1137640529/railroads-freight-rail-unions-vote-contract-strike
We don’t get to see behind closed doors
Not an excuse. Their breaking the picket line shows that they’re just another gaggle of Beltway bottom-feeders who talk out the sides of their necks when it’s convenient to score a couple extra votes. I don’t reward that kind of behavior.
So basically you’ll never vote for anyone because no politician will ever agree with absolutely everything you do. For that matter, no person will. There are always occasions where you accept something that’s better than nothing than accepting nothing out of moral grandstanding.
I don’t accept
strikebreakers or scabsany anti-labor moves that wind up suppressing the right to withhold one’s ‘essential labor’, since we want to play the semantics game now. So much bad faith out of you liberals; and you wonder why I have no time, patience, or consideration for you ‘people’.Well you should at least learn the meanings of those words, because they aren’t those. They did not go to work for rail companies to undermine the strike.
I get you want to be idiologically pure and everything. Personally, I want whatever is best for the workers. I know from the outside I was mad about it, but I can’t say it definitely was not what was best for the workers. They were not going to be allowed to strike for long, if at all. The fact they are getting some of the things they asked for in the demands is enough to show that it wasn’t just caving the the rail companies.
Being angry is a lot easier than being realistic.
(Go protest. That’s great. But elected officials don’t have the liberty to be idealistically pure.)
You might want to look into what happened a little bit more. A minority of the unions were trying to hold the negotiations hostage. It’s not as black and white as you’re painting it.
https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politics/congress-votes-to-avert-rail-strike-amid-dire-warnings
US corporate media crucifies her in 3… 2… 1…
I absolutely guarantee you there is going to be some made up scandal involving her in the coming months. In America, you don’t state the obvious that Israel is a terrorist state without getting some bullshit claim pinned to you. Whatever “scandal” they come up with, it might not even have anything to do with Israel at all. In fact, chances are, it won’t. But whatever it is, it will see people claiming she step down from office or sees her power diminish overall in Washington.
She’s not wrong about Israel. I would support cutting off aid from Israel and not support Palestine either. That’s probably the best solution.
The U.S. actively helped Israel starve Gazans and the U.S. ensured that UN aid to Palestinians was blocked. We have a collective responsibility to Palestinians to help undo our damage.
I’m not versed in Palestine-Israel history. I only know that Palestine currently doesn’t seem like it has a leader while Hamas is still a issue, and Israel is participating in trying to destroy Palestine. Basically, it looks like no one wants to solve problems there or get involved.
At least you’re honest about your ignorance. A lot of people do want to solve problems on both sides but you don’t hear about them in English speaking media headlines, and extremists on both sides can easily shatter fragile deals made by leaders.
Palestine would burn to the ground in this scenario.
But at least America wouldn’t be HELPING Israel burn Palestine to the ground.
https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/7/10/us-and-israel-start-joint-military-exercise
An “at least” that includes a bunch of deaths isn’t a viable solution.
“This meeting was inconclusive and thus we’ll keep aiding Israel.”
At least Russia won’t control all of Ukraine
Ok, what are other solutions that would work? I could think of sanctions toward Israel on top of cutting off aid toward Israel would help a bit. I do not know much about Israel-Palestine history, but to me I get the impression no one there wants it to end or seem to be so.
I don’t know, I’m not an expert on this topic.
My initial reaction is that this is a “both sides” stance that punishes the victim, but I’m interested to become more nuanced. Would you mind expanding on why this would be best?
Read my other response. I do have a impression that Palestine doesn’t seem like it has a leader, and there’s some issues with Hamas. And it appears no one wants to come to a end. So, I can only think of cutting off aid to Israel and possibly with sanctions as a response to continuation of war.
The “both sides” stance is really just basic nuance applied.
If you want to get real nuanced, realize that a lot of people are missing the point. Our aid to Israel has nothing to do with their human rights record. They’re a foothold for Western hegemony in a geopolitically significant region. Stop aiding Israel, or Saudi Arabia for that matter, and that is a retreat from the global conflict between West (USA/Europe) and East (China/Russia).
Withdrawing from the Middle East cedes control of the region to the Eastern proxy, Iran. Is a Middle East controlled by Eastern interests preferable to one controlled by Western interests? Does that result in Palestinian liberation? Does it result in peace? Or do we end up with a genocide in the opposite direction?
Of course, there are smaller adjustments that can be made that may pressure one side or the other into pursuing a brokered peace. That’s what we’ve tried and failed at for decades, up until Trump anyway. We were quite close until Netanyahu riled up the crazies and caused the assassination of Yitzhak Rabin.
This sounds like a lot of good reasoning that could have been used to respond to the original poster of this thread ; ¯_(ツ)_/¯
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A two state solution doesn’t work because Palestine is a terrorist state that works against peaceful solutions at every turn.
