Like let’s put aside socialism, morals, basic humanity. Why the fuck does the west support Israel to the degree it does? Like it only alienates basically every other potential partner in the ME. It can’t effectively serve as a barracks state because who would we need that army to fight that wouldn’t only make things worse? Their economy is basically propped up by the USA. Yes they serve as a platform for weapons and systems testing, but they don’t need a complete blank cheque too it. Like I don’t get this logic. Cut em a check and pull bibi’s leash and wash your hands of it. Like the logic of “Unconditional 110% support” is just fuckin nuts. Yeah sure a good bit of it us ideology, but there has to be some matrierial calculus in there somewhere. They are basically sacrificing the baby Ukraine over this.
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- Intelligence sharing
- “anti-terrorism” training
- outsourcing a destination for any Jewish refugees, and assuaging guilt about Holocaust victims the U.S. didn’t save.
- Fulfillment of Apocalyptic Prophecy
Fulfillment of Apocalyptic Prophecy
I feel like this one is underappreciated outside circles directly adjacent to this, to the horrific detriment of the rest of society. There are people rooting for - some of them actively working towards - the world to be in terrible warfare, because they believe it serves own religious ends.
I grew up in that ideology, and idk what to do about the way it affects people. My parents are stoked about the current bloodshed because maybe this might be the beginning of the war that heralds the return of Jesus. What do you even do with that?
I assumed this was a minority view in the US, or one that’s subconsciously held. But then yesterday a user posted an excerpt about George Bush going on about biblical warfare and esoteric entities to the catholic French president (who was completely confused), and that convinced me there is a deep and unsettling and broken population of people in the US, even more than what I originally believed.
i fucking hate religion
I grew up in that ideology, and idk what to do about the way it affects people. My parents are stoked about the current bloodshed because maybe this might be the beginning of the war that heralds the return of Jesus. What do you even do with that?
you have to improve peoples’ material conditions and foster a culture of curiosity about world so that they fall out of religion on their own. and critical support for reddit atheists.
Also their military industrial complex corps get fed with all those tax dollars
It’s their foothold in the middle east and a tool they can use to keep the area destabilised. They can easily fund right wing orgs to ensure no socialist uprisings ever gain power in the area again.
Also most US leaders believe in weird Christian shit involving the area
The number one obstacle towards Arab unity is without a shadow of a doubt the Zionist entity. It’s there as the source of instability. Even with the Zionist entity, there were still projects aimed towards Arab unity like the United Arab Republic, the United Arab States, the Federation of Arab States, and the Arab Islamic Republic. These projects proved to be failures, but they were failures because of the Zionist entity. Imagine if Nasser didn’t have an Israel to deal with and the United Arab Republic stretched from Egypt to Palestine to Syria. It’s very possible a snowball effect would happen and more countries like Algeria, Libya, and South Yemen would join before eventually, much of the Arabia Peninsula and North Africa is unified under a federation, if not a single country. And with unity comes strength.
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On top of what everyone else has said, the US doesn’t want allies, it wants vassals. Having a permanent military foothold in the region so you can exploit its neighbors whenever it’s convenient is better than making mutually beneficial deals with a bunch of middle eastern countries. In fact, the US doesn’t do mutually beneficial deals, you’re either their attack dog or their target.
Like it only alienates basically every other potential partner in the ME.
does it tho
Saudi Arabia didn’t seem to mind being America’s bitch for the last 20 years especially
True, but however conciliatory the governments are (e.g. Saudi Arabia) to Israel, the average citizen of an Arab country despises Israel. This creates a contradiction
oh absolutely. I like the take somewhere down the thread where the poster pointed out that isntreal’s a destabilizing force that way
Like it only alienates basically every other potential partner in the ME.
Exactly, but not every partner. Wester backing for Israel puts pressure on resource rich middle eastern countries. The saudis don’t give a fuck and will keep pumping out oil for the west even if Israel states to the camera that they plan on committing genocide, proper. But as for everyone else, they may be hostile to Israel, but Israel having more weapons = Israel disciplining the Arabs = the US’s interests are protected explicitly or implicitly. For example, look at Syria and Iran - Israel feels threatened by Iran and kills their scientists and that aligns with the US. Alienation is irrelevant if your guns are bigger
The country is also geographically close to Russia and China. The US has been promoting terrorists on china’s borders, and having a powerful, friendly intelligence apparatus that’s close to your enemy = more efficient covert operations
Like the logic of “Unconditional 110% support” is just fuckin nuts.
The performative support circus for Israel is for people at home to buy into the cause. And with any form of geopolitics, it’s also a tacit warning to the enemies and partners around the region that we have an attack dog and we’re not afraid to unleash it. And even though Israel is dependent on the US, individual organizations and politicians in the US are dependent on Israeli lobbyists and donations. If Israel stops giving money to the GOP or dems, they would definitely be punished, but if lobbyists feel personally offended or happy with individuals, the funding or lack thereof is significant to that person. It’s why BDS is illegal and businesses will go as far as putting anti-BDS clauses in property rental agreements.
Yeah sure a good bit of it us ideology, but there has to be some matrierial calculus in there somewhere. They are basically sacrificing the baby Ukraine over this.
Yes, I imagine it’s because dominance in the Middle East has largely happened already and the resources are more readily available compared to what’s in Ukraine or Russia. Ukraine has farm land and much of the industry is being privatized, but it’s also being occupied by a peer superpower. The US already knows Ukraine is done for and now they have to play the waiting game. But Israel’s military is more advanced than most of its neighbors who are unstable, sanctioned, war torn, or haven’t fought in decades - it’s easier to support Israel because your enemies are weaker. Essentially, Ukraine = ideology (defeating Russia once and for all), but Israel = ideology + materialism
Israel is called a lapdog for a reason. It stays loyal to its owner, and when the owner feels threatened, so will the dog and vice versa.
The country is also geographically close to Russia and China
it is not. 1.5–>3.4k kilometres is not close, and there are other ‘allies’ and clients much, much, closer.
geographically Iran is pretty crucial for trade routes of the 2 Eastern countries
You’re right. But China also wants land trade routes with the Middle East via BRI. I imagine having Israel being next to everybody in the region helps disrupt this goal.
Every time I heard him speak - I can’t resist comparing him to the average American talking head and how shallow, ill-informed, ill-read, confused, and wrong they are in comparison. It’s very low-hanging fruit I know - but they the sort of people that are admired by the public for qualities they don’t actually have.
Also - Chomsky speaks better than most pundits (etc) write.
Almost like he’s a professional linguist or something
It really is his most underrated stat, his ability to disseminate information in a way that makes it easily digestible.
easily digestible
A lot of “thinkers” seem to actually believe that clarity and concision are bad.
Yeah I have a book called How the West Came to Rule which is supposed to be a comprehensive theory of the global development of capitalism from a non-western, non-eurocentric perspective. Pretty cool premise but the thing is almost completely inaccessible. I expect books on politics and economy to take a bit longer, to be read more carefully, but as a strong reader, I should still be able to read the damn thing
i really wish this guy had something better to say than “none of your business” when asked about why he visited epstein’s child fuck island long after it was well known to be child fuck island to the rich and powerful; it made him lose so much credibility and i suspect that he doesn’t care.
so, there’s nothing indicating that he visited the island. but even if he just had a couple dinners with epstein and hardly spoke to him and somehow genuinely had no idea who he was (which wasn’t the case, but if), it’s still an indictment of a supposedly radical thinker to be so deeply entrenched in the ruling class that he just can’t avoid rubbing shoulders with the billionaire pedophile pimp.
The answer is why not? The US does that simply because it can.
Too many people try to complicate and rationalize the motivation behind US support, but when you think about this from the US imperialist perspective, it’s really simple: they’re not Arabs, they’re not Muslims, they align with our interests, so why not?
The US is not spending hundreds of billions of taxpayers money to prop up Israel, it created those money out of thin air, because of dollar hegemony. When you have that power of getting “free lunches” everywhere, you do that just because you can. It’s free lunch.
This is also why I keep emphasizing that de-dollarization is so important. Strip away the power of the dollar (monetary imperialism) and all the military and financial support from the US falls away.
To keep the Middle East destabilized. If Middle Eastern countries are destabilized then the US can get oil for cheap. If they unified, the whole US empire could collapse.
Now I know it seems odd because Israeli occupation of Palestine is a rallying call for pan-Arab solidarity. Well you’re right, this is an inherent contradiction. But the US is happy to keep supporting Isn’treal because they are a threat to Syria and Iran. And if another Six Days war happens, it keeps guns pointed on Isn’treal.
I personally think that Isn’treal is a vassal the US can’t completely control. The US can always give them money and try to direct their army towards US enemies, but they can’t get them to stop the genocide when they’re on the warpath. So the US has to keep supporting them, because if they don’t they will lose all influence on Isn’treal and the ME as a whole. This is another contradiction.
from the horse’s mouth
nowadays he is more glue than horse
Alienated neighbors or not, the threat of violence including nukes is real
the logic of “Unconditional 110% support” is just fuckin nuts
i mean it is in rhetoric but it might not be matched in deed. if Iran actually went in on Israel i’m flipping a coin whether the US sticks with em. the US hasn’t pulled the curtain and directly intervened in any israeli war yet.
but i think you’ve got the ‘barracks’ equation backwards. the US doesn’t want Israel for bodies to invade other places, they want israel to absorb the damage and fallout from opposition to US policy. all the people attacking and opposing israel very much want to strike the US, but Israel’s right there and always making provocations, so its first on the list.
the US hasn’t pulled the curtain and directly intervened in any israeli war yet.
didn’t we park a bunch of carriers in the east mediterranean in the six day war that caused the anti-colonial forces to back off? like they might not be listed in the wikipedia as belligerents but IMO it counts
apparently it’s alleged the US directly participated, but which anti-colonial forces were deterred? i thought all the regional players were involved and pretty roundly defeated. were there reserves that might’ve reversed it that the US prevented from being committed?
my understanding is that ‘roundly defeated’ is thanks to us power projection but it’s been a long time since I took a class on this so I don’t remember the details
Never ending conflict that feeds the MIC and most voters don’t care about opposing. Also, it’s like a frontier to try out the most brutal methods of oppression and surveillance. That means you can send your cops to train over there and also get some fancy tracking systems to hunt down undesirables.
