found in the wilds
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EXACTLY I am so sick of seeing shit in the media talking about ‘leftists’ when they mean Biden or some other right-wing liberal
in my local election, “the left” is frequently used to describe center-right liberal city council members who deviate slightly from the far-right rich white people who make up most of the area. its infuriating.
“The Left” and “Leftism” has no specific meaning outside the imagination of the individual saying it.
In practice, it’s a way to obscure the contradictions between liberals and communists.AFIAK most Europeans still draw the line at private ownership of the means of production, while in America the red scare & McCarthyite purges left it a floating signifier because there was no actual left left.
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I grew up among Marxists so I know they exist, but outside of that familial circle I don’t think I’ve met a european leftist that isn’t actually a capitalist. There’s a handful of former libs I’ve converted into leftists, but I can’t think of any I just bumped into out in the wild.
🥴Another lesser of two ontological evils situation
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Wow. A concise, accurate, and helpful comment from a user with an @ in their name. I’ll have to check out this “lemmygrad”.
i’ve heard rumors that lemmygrad even has communists
All the more reason to investigate. Nothing but
s over here, sadly.
Here I thought the .ml meant it was a Mike Lindell fan page
Lemmygrad is an ML instance and have been around for a bit. They’re cool
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That’s the exact thing they are complaining about. That some people believe they can be left by slighlt changing the status quo but keeping the system itself
I think that’s too low a bar to set. Criticizing capitalism is perfectly compatible with liberalism, it even helps support liberalism as a release valve for certain kinds of liberals.
I think to be considered properly left you have to go further and embrace a positive alternative to capitalism (and imperialism).
I guess it depends on whether you think being anti-capitalist includes half-measured whinging about it, Walter.
criticism isn’t the same as outright rejection, but i can see how the definition has room for ambiguity
But rejection without embracing an alternative isn’t really anything, you’re not a leftist you’re nothing, a nihilist or w/e. There are a ton of educated liberals who would identify as anti-capitalists but don’t actually believe in or fight for socialism. When pressed they’ll say something like “no system works” or “it’s all corrupt”, the only thing we have to turn to is despair, etc.
This is what “anti-capitalism” looks like in the imperial core, it’s a disengaged philosophical position that puts the subject above all these cringe ideologies.
This why I prefer using “socialist” instead of “leftist”. It filters out shitlibs and cowards
The only reason I sometimes don’t use the word socialist is that I worry it excludes my ancom comrades.
The only anarchists that would shy away from standing under the banner of socialism aren’t allies in the liberation of the human race.
This includes the ultras that compose the fringe threads of the post-left, ancaps and any other “anarcho”-reactionaries dipshits spin up in their heads to try and shape the material world into
I’ve known cool Marxist ancoms that don’t use the label socialist because they think it’s misleading. Not gonna dismiss them, they’re cool and work well with others. Much cooler than some other irl folks that call themselves socialist.
There are people that will drape themselves under the mantle of socialism but are complete shitlibs or dirtbags and there are people that knowingly or unknowingly do good socialist work but reject the label.
As far as I’m concerned the latter are allies under the banner of socialism whereas the former should get a swift introduction to the exit door
Fair enough. My thinking is also in the interests of left unity on this site, which is roughly from typical commies to ancoms.
I call myself a communist because that describes me. It’s not excluding people to not describe yourself as something you aren’t.
I don’t mean what I simply call myself. I mean if I’m referring to the group of people that are my comrades (including me). If I say, “we are socialists” I don’t want my cool ancom friends to think I’m excluding them or being sectarian.
Basically, I agree that the term, “leftist” is easily abused and not that useful, but I also have reason to not use communist or socialist as a replacement because I still want something a little bit more inclusive. I don’t actually have any good substitute, I tend to just describe what tendencies I know are represented.
I’m in ancom country, I’m the ML outlier and they use the term talkie unironically, I’m already doing left unity by working with them and I’m more likely to point out the difference at this point.
Haha I know the feeling though I’m often around trots and Socdems (I do get commie reprieves though). Also a good number of ancoms that are 95% of the way to ML.
I agree with your sentiment. Any wiggle room allows for progressive politicians like
being held up as the alternative by the owners of capital during a crisis to prevent an actual alternative to the oppressive system from gaining any traction. It’s really crazy when you think about it, how reformist capitalists like her keep trying the same failed solutions the original Progressives did a century ago with the same results. People who argue breaking up monopolies as a panacea really irk me cause it is has been show to be sisyphean in practice.
Yeah except it seems like we can’t get a baseline for what capitalism means. Liberals don’t believe it’s a distinct class system, they use the terms to refer to specific policy or even personality traits rather than an economic framework. To them it just means when a boss is greedy, or when there are fewer regulations. They’ll say Sweden is socialist, or one time I had a really pedantic argument with a liberal who says India is socialist because their constitution calls the country a socialist republic (it was a diplomatic gesture towards the USSR).
This is why I’m a proponent of vocally declaring myself a communist. There’s no mincing words there. Liberals will call themselves leftists or socialists, but they’ll avoid the c-word.
I’ve started doing this in person when I feel like it won’t get me physically attacked by someone present. It felt kinda awkward at first, but it’s much easier for me now. I use socialist or sometimes marxist in most other cases.
Yeah don’t get yourself injured or ostracized, but if you’re around otherwise normal people or family, we shouldn’t hide it. Gotta get that word normalized asap.
The bad part is in America it’s sometimes hard to know who’s secretly a Qanon obsessive with a concealed firearm. Although after like 15 years of being open about it, I’ve only been accosted in public a single time: a guy followed me around pointing out the hammer and sickle pin on my bag and shouting at me. Kept saying his dad died fighting communists in Korea. I tried to ignore the guy and he eventually got tired, but it took every bit of restraint not to tell him his dad deserved it.
his dad died fighting communists in Korea
Leftism starts at Marxism. After Marx, social thinking, economic and political analysis, it cannot be what it was before. Marx is inescapable.
Whatever tendency one goes on from there, weather it be anarcho-communism, orthodox Marxism, Marxist Leninism, Maoism, third worldists, Trotskyism, democratic socialism, socialism with Chinese characteristics, Juche, etc, it’s all on the left as long as it starts from Marx’s critique of capitalism. That’s what differentiates leftist anti capitalism from egalitarian/radical liberal anti capitalism.
“The Left” and “Leftism” are the people and practice of forcing righties to use their left hands 🤘
Two wrongs don’t make a right but three leftists do.
Its when the pig poops its own balls
It’s true. But also don’t gatekeep…
If you don’t gatekeep, liberals will dilute and destroy your movement.
A little gatekeeping, as a treat.
“gatekeeping” is relative and you actually have to spend mental energy to figure out an appropriate amount of gatekeeping for every situation. It’s hard
worrying about “gatekeeping” is solely a concern online where the only activities available to us are about image management and identity. In the realm of politics it is always necessary to distinguish between enemies, comrades, and fools.
Gatekeep a political ideology? This isn’t a Fandom, this is class war. If you’re pro capitalist then you’re not a leftist in the same way that if you’re made of wood and have roots and leaves you’re not a moray eel.
Leftism is thi gs i put in my ass such as glass jars
