I wanna quibble with this just a little bit. People work. Left to their own devices, with their needs met, people will dedicate their energy toward generating value.
What no one wants to do is a job, which is an arrangement by which several of us have to do more in exchange for less so one of us can do nothing all day and then complain that “nobody wants to work anymore”.
When people say “nobody wants to work”, what they mean is nobody wants to work for them. People will work for themselves, for people they care about, or even humanity in general, but I think it’s fair to say nobody ever wanted to work just to make money for someone else.
If left to my own devices, I’ll generate art. I give it away and almost never sell it. A lot of it is bad art and has no value.
Nah dude, it is only “bad” and “has no value” in this capitalist economy. Keep making art, it is valuable.
Thanks! I’ve never let it bother me. I make funky stuff for my own amusement. I go by the horseshoe theory that priceless is the same as worthless on the ‘value’ scale. Maybe it’s more like an ouroboros than a horseshoe? Anyway, I’m not afraid of making things for the “art bin”, I make it to exercise the idea.
I love doing art for just for the sake of it
My house is filled with my friends ‘bad’ art because i love her and it makes me happy when i look at it
I love it when people describe things by their function to pull the rug out from under the label people who bastardize meaning!
Very well put.
I always like to say that I love my job, but I hate my boss and my stupid colleagues because they always seem to be getting in the way OF DOING MY FUCKING JOB. In 2023 it seems like work is more like a highschool popularity contest rather than about giving value to the company.
So in practice, I hate working. But it was never about the job. The narcissists are the ones ruining it.
Nice one.
Although honestly it’s not true for me, I would need some activity, some learning to happen to be contempt. But that’s me ^^
I’ve never understood this argument. “I couldn’t not work because I’d be too bored/I need to feel useful/I need mental/physical enrichment, etc.” You can be unemployed and still do things. You don’t have to sit on your couch all day staring at the wall. You can take up hobbies, volunteer, travel, all without having to worry about a work schedule. I would retire in an instant if I had the opportunity.
Some people don’t function well without hard boundaries or someone else holding them accountable. I don’t get it myself but it seems to be pretty common. It includes the “I can’t work from home because I’d just play Xbox all day” crowd.
After a while those people will also search for something more in life.
We shouldn’t blame them for wanting a rest a couple of months after Capitalism forced them into servitude for so many years.
I agree wholeheartedly, and when we got locked down for COVID I learned how to play guitar and automate my house using a raspberry pi. It was a great time, and I look back on it fondly. I finally had time to pursue things that interested me, that I didn’t have time for with work.
Nowadays I play guitar and tinker with home automation, and work as well, but back then I had the hours to put in to starting the hobbies.
I think you are right, but having a purpose to doing stuff (be it monetary or others) can help imo.
Also I don’t sit on my couch all day, even if I’m working ^^
If you can’t afford me at my worst, you can’t afford me at my best.
If you can’t afford me at my price, you can’t afford me in the feels.
We have fed you all for a thousand years, for that was our doom you know
From the days where you chained us in your fields, to the strike of a week ago
Open source exists where often nobody gets payed
They still do it for a reason.
Sometimes that reason is just “I want it like that but it doesn’t exist”
There are plenty of reasons to work for “free” in FOSS. Having contributed to a valued project looks great on a CV, and sometimes it’s just for passion.
You know, I used to think that about myself. I’ve found that I actually enjoy intermittent periods of doing things that are valuable and could be construed as work, when I’m well-rested and the impacts of trauma are minimized. But the problem is that state so rarely exists in life for so many people because we are forced to do this shit day in and day out, and they call us lazy and entitled when we no longer have the capacity to handle it. I’ve been in a near-continuous state of burnout for so long that I cannot imagine myself happy even if I never had to work again. My anhedonia is so bad that when I get home from work, all I do is eat and sleep, even on the weekends. I put some shit on YouTube to pass the time and I can’t even remember what it is I watched, it’s more or less just a grey noise generator. Deep in the back of myself I remember a person who once enjoyed things and had goals and dreams, but about the same time I start feeling like that person again, I have to go back to work, and it starts all over. This is no way to live.
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This is the problem, though. Even when getting paid the price people think they deserve. They tend not to do a great job when it comes down to it. Also some smaller mom and pop shops just can’t afford to pay you like a big store could. People don’t think about that, though.
Then they don’t get to exist. Lots of really shitty jobs disappeared when we first introduced minimum wage. They disappeared because they weren’t profitable. You don’t hear about getting rid of the minimum wage now to bring back those jobs. We found new better jobs, that are profitable and benefit both parties.
Capitalism raised us and forced us to see things we love fail due to “market forces” so why not expose those big capital players to the same conditions we all face? Be good at business or be out of business.
Tough shit. I have bills too.
“But some people just have a shitty work ethic” is not the counterargument you think it is.
As for the difference in what a big business can afford vs a small one, that’s tough. But if you fall behind on the expenses of doing business, you should simply be charging more. If you still can’t afford something, while charging a fair (both to customer and proprietor) price, then you don’t get just handwave it off and hire someone for less than they’re worth.
A lot of “mom and pop” shops stay in business for decades and finally bite the dust because they refuse to adjust prices that should be orders of magnitude higher due the ever-decreasing worth of money itself.
Instead they try to match prices with giant companies, while providing three times better services because they actually care about both customers and employees in a way corposhits “optimize workflows” too hard to even afford considering.
If you’re a boutique business, charge like one.
You make a lot of good points. I also might’ve not made myself as clear since I am at work ATM and trying to type while in-between things.
I fully agree that you should pay someone what they’re worth. Just that’s the thing. I personally know people who are too lazy to lift a finger and want a office job where they do basically nothing and still expect $20 a hour and if they gotta do anything more it’s $50 a hour.
Some people are not a willing to trade their full efforts in return for that pay they desire. Me being one of them, but I at least still do my job and show up to work. I just do my job slower.
That’s why I bring up the fact that mom and pop shops can’t pay the same. A small shop might pay you the higher price, but if you then don’t do the work and they have to hire someone else… then you’re not really WORTH that price. Are you?
Ok, what kind of bullshit attitude is that?
You don’t want to pay people, because some people are less motivated? Yeah, that’s your problem as a business. Give them a reason to work hard or stop complaining.
Mom and Pop can’t afford to pay proper wages? That’s their problem. If other businesses can afford good salaries, why can’t they? Maybe their business is simply rubbish.
Think about what twisted Stockholm syndrome you’re expressing here. Capitalism is once, for the first time in decades, on the brink of actually increasing the wealth slightly for the workers, and all you can contribute is “yeah, but then capitalists can’t properly fuck the workers over and that’s just really unfair to the businesses”.
You’re not wrong, but we could flip it around. There are probably just as many companies that don’t put in 100% effort either. They sell you a product or service and once they have your money, they really don’t care if it meets your expectations.
Why am I expected to give up my holidays and weekends to be a team player, but when a company doesn’t bend for customers or employees it’s just “Hey, that’s business!”?
Businesses don’t have the right to exist, to them it is a privilege.
If they can’t improve society, then they should just go bankrupt.
and still expect $20 a hour
You won’t even get me to show up for 20/hr in 2023. If an employee can make that shit pay work for them the business owner should be doing backflips to keep them happy.
Look at where you live, then look at where I live. I live in the middle of nowhere. It’s cheap living and everyone gets cheap pay unless you work off shore. Even as a tile installer I only made $16hr… it’s not high pay.
What? People don’t do a great job? Who are you talking about?
Pretty much everyone that reports to me has to be poked and prodded to actually do a good job let alone a great one. It’s not even a hard job, steady easy tasks that need completing with occasional escalations that require white glove treatment. They all know how to do this shit properly but they opt to be as lazy as possible if I don’t keep following up on things all the time. Then they bitch when they get poor performance reviews.
I knew you were a manager from your first comment, but nice to have it confirmed.
They asked for who wasn’t doing a good job so I gave them an example.
Next time just say “me”
if you’re a manager and your team is shit, maybe it’s because they have a shitty manager.
Yes, that’s what I was implying … That they are a shitty manager.
Sounds like you’re a shit Manager to me.
K
If that’s the case, it’s compelling. However, I’m gonna need to know how you came to the conclusion that people tend not to do a great job when they think they’re paid what they’re worth.
Sir, this is the Marxist echo chamber, not a place for reasoned discussion.
What is reasoned about keeping failed businesses afloat when they can’t even pay a decent wage?
Who said the business was failing?
