This never was about Hamas, and never was about the hostages.
It’s about exterminating Palestinians and destroying their infrastructure, while ensuring that enough of the survivors are radicalised enough to keep the military funding going.
while ensuring that enough of the survivors are radicalised enough to keep the military funding going.
this is the part everyone misses. it’s a batman/joker thing. as long as bibi can make the case that there’s at least one living member of Hamas, he’s free to send the IDF to loot, pillage, burn, rape and murder in Palestine. This is why Israel funded Hamas for years. There’s nothing an asshole likes more than another asshole, so that while he’s being an asshole he can point to the other asshole and say “Look what an asshole that guy is! I’m protecting you from him.” The fact is the Israeli and Palestinian civilians have both been victimized by Hamas, the Israeli government, and Europe. This conflict is full of powerful people trying to convince regular powerless people that other regular powerless people are the enemy, but the fact is an Israeli civilian has more in common with a Palestinian civilian than they do with Hamas or IDF.
I wouldn’t go that far to say hamas/iran want to exterminate palestinians, but rather to keep israel busy and create a negative world opinion on them for reasons to come in the next years.
Even if this was the case, when someone holds a gun to your head and says do something before i count to three, most wait till the last possible second. Isreal pulled out a resume and dumped two clips before anyone said One.
The only real fuckin ugly truth to any of this right now is that blame seems to be the only thing that matters to anyone. Innocent people are being slaughtered and instead of just shutting this shit down ASAP and hashing it out when the dust settles we’ll just sit back and debate while war crimes happen.
The innocent people getting killed in attacks on churches (even Catholic ones) and refugee camps and whole suburban areas are awful.
Even if 10% actively supports Hamas (which is not the case) it does not warrant the genocidal reaction of Israel. Hamas has just given them the excuse to clear out their “problem areas” of every living spul who happens to be there.
An award winning journalist who compared this to the pogroms of ww2 is maybe not that far off.
Even ventilating an opinion about the actions of the IDF is branded as “antisemitism”.
I am not pro Hamas, but what happens over there has nothing to do with self defense.
People are losing their jobs just for asking for a ceasefire, not even for saying anything antisemitic. It’s insane. I still feel sorry for that Scream 7 actress.
…what? Might wanna reread your comment.
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Forget the fact they were hostages. They had already openly surrendered and were waving a white flag. They were non-combatants in every sense of the word. They murdered them.
Israel claims that 61% of deaths are civilian which is already beyond fucking abhorrent but with this news, is that number remotely reliable?
Israel has been dying to take every square inch of Palestine for decades. They took their opportunity and they are openly slaughtering the population. 61% by their own admission. Over half of all deaths have been civilian but still they keep pushing on. They kill their own people and still they push on.
I no longer see a difference between Israels government under Bibi/his party and the Nazis in WW2. Openly exterminating a group of people they do not like under the argument that they have some holy/divine/superior claim to land. That is literally the fucking Nazi playbook.
It is genuinely bonechilling and horrifying.
Yeah, I believe the comparison to Nazi Germany is spot on.
It’s why, next time I see an Israeli genocide troll talk about “Israel’s right to exist”, I’m just gonna ask if they think Nazi Germany had a right to exist, and if not, why. I’m anticipating some serious mental gymnastics, or, depending on where it happens, an instant permaban.
You should pull Rivermonster into that conversation. He’s like a one man cirque du soleil defending Israeli genocide.
To be fair, he is obligated to toe the line and regurgitate his talking points, otherwise the IDF might make him go to the front.
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Been comparing them to Nazis for weeks now.
The pearl clutching from israel defenders is infuriating especially when they get offended if you aren’t perfectly polite with them as they defend a genocide.Read non-Israel publication’s eyewitness reports from the rave and kubbutz attacks on Oct 7th, they don’t want to investigate how many civilians died by friendly fire.
It was 14.
Why are you saying it like it would be a bigger number?
Why are you saying it like it would be a bigger number?
Because that’s only one incident and there are more confirmed in the press, the music festival and Sderot are the other big ones.
Provide links then. The last I heard of the music festival was that it was mis-attributed footage of a helicopter attack on Gaza on October 8. As for Sderot, are you referring to the bombing of the police station to eliminate Hamas members?
I don’t play the article game that turns into debating sources and trust you can find information for yourself. The attack helicopter video was false. The scenario the IDF was conducting their behavior under was not meant to protect civilians and it’s very likely many were hit in crossfire, on top of that many of the IDF soldiers were apparently not fully trained on the equipment they were using.
Israel has committed more than enough crimes against humanity. The only thing you are doing is providing propaganda so that the government in Israel can point to it as lies created to defame Jews. Provide sources, you are representing more than yourself when discussing this topic. I’m asking you to be better.
That’s a grandiose and sanctimonious statement made out of ignorance to address me not engaging in pointless online tit for tats. Have at it:
https://www.google.com/search?q=october+7+hamas+attack+israel+idf+civilian+friendly+fire
Read up on the Warsaw ghetto uprising if you’d like an apt, but sarcastic similarity.
Russia: “Why are we getting shit for doing the same thing Israel has done for 50+ years?”
Apparently one of them wasn’t dead immediately and cried for help so they shot again
And the commanding officer only tried to stop them when they heard the last victim asking for help and realised it was in hebrew.
Seems the IDF shoots first and asks questions later. This is what’s happened to unarmed jewish hostages, who were shirtless, holding a white shirt on a stick which is the universal sign of surrender. What about the million people living in gaza coming up against this? Holy fuck.
That’s how the IDF have killed ~20k Palestinians and ~100 journalists in the last 2 months. Mass murder of the civilian population is the intended consequence when you’re indiscriminately bombing refugee camps and journalists.
“If they move, they’re Hamas… If they stand still, they’re well disciplined Hamas” — IDF
“Are we the baddies?”
They aren’t self aware to ask that.
That’s a classic for the IDF, let them bleed or finish them. Last time one of their soldier went to trial took 9 months for that. But not an apartheid state at all, just very similar…
Source?
Thanks!
Thanks!
Google is your friend, if you really care for a source of course…
Asking for a source should never be looked down on in discussions like this where misinformation can be rampant and accuracy is important
Accuracy is the excuse of lazy people, if I want a source I look for it and if I want I share it. What you consider so important is not important at all. No one owns his time to you or anyone else.
While I would like to agree with you, because far too often people dont ask for a source in good faith, would have to be consistent with the etiquette and require that the burden of proof falls on the person that makes a claim.
Burden of proof is for trials. You guys are all pretty confused.
Ah, my mistake in giving you more credit than you deserve. Burden of proof.
Nah you’re the one who’s confused. Nobody owes you their attention any more than you “owe” a source. And asking for a source is not the same as demanding or claiming to be owed. You incorrectly created that context in your own head.
Not all requests for sources are equal. And you’re being kind of a dick.
Google is not your friend when it keeps regurgitating AI generated articles and images. They aren’t your friend when the only way you can get “reliable” information is by appending ‘reddit’ at the end. They aren’t your friend when you search with clear terms and tags the suggested articles they present are recent $$$$$ boosted ones instead of clearly the popular article that broke the event.
Truth
Asking for a source for breaking information that can significantly change a story should never be frowned upon. I asked, they initially admittedly provided tabloids, and then they provided legitimate sources. Lastly I thanked them for providing the source.
In cases like this, it is new information that the person clearly had recent access to so asking for the source should be extremely easy. Asking someone to waste their time verifying someone else’s claims when that claim could be complete horseshit is silly. I can’t exactly come upon a source that does not exist.
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It’s great to be right.
It is. You should try it sometime.
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“It was against the rules of engagement for the IDF," Hecht says.
As if they haven’t been encouraging this as normal practice.
Here is an interview with a former IDF soldier who states that it was policy that everything inside gaza is a enemy target. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n0KKHIS9D7I
It has been policy for decades at least.
The only rule is “Don’t get caught committing war crimes”
Kind of explains all the dead journalists.
This is their standard SOP, I suppose. There had been another incidence recently where an unarmed Israeli man who had just killed 2 Palestinian attackers at Jerusalem. The man kneeled on the ground, raising his hand, and opened his shirt to signal that he wasn’t a threat. But this IDF soldier rewarded the supposedly Israeli hero by killing him cold-blooded. Not sure if there any video of this on news channels but the clips of this incidence has been circulating around in Telegram about 2 weeks ago, I think.
Marijuana use in the US isn’t just against policy, it’s against the law. But without enforcement, does a policy or law mean anything?
I’m not anti-marijuana, I’m saying enforcement is what determines a law or policy’s effectiveness.
Weeeeeeeeeeeak argument right there. “It’s still illegal ferederally” while pointing to a law that is only just barely limping on with its federal justification.
I get that the distinction is legally valid, and that you’re highlighting the slowness of Federal law, but you’re not really contributing significantly to the conversation here.
Particularly given that the topic of this thread is war, not recreational drug usage.
My point was simple: a law or policy, unenforced, is neither law nor policy.
We all know it to be true but then some pause and give a pass to platitude of “against policy.” Same applies to US police.
I’m not changing the topic. I’m saying people need to challenge these statements more vocally.
Edit to add: You’re saying I said things I didn’t, missing the point, and have derailed an important point of agreement.
That’s true, but policy or law, even when unenforced, still leaves absolute scope for those rules to be clamped down on.
Are you in any way saying that their official “policy” is something they’re going to enforce? Because that’s a big swing from where you started this branch.
I think you need to pick a side and stay there. I’m not saying this from a combative standpoint. I just want you to pick.
Otherwise this looks like just scoring points and not a conversation.
Do you believe the IDF will enforce their engagement policy?
Edited briefly for clarity and tense.
proof?
/Gestures at the Gaza strip
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n0KKHIS9D7I
Watch a former IDF soldier talk about what policy was in effect in Gaza and get back to us.
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Well that’s mainly because of “recognition”. Few countries recognize Hamas as a valid leadership organization of Gaza. That’s the difference between an army and a terrorist group. The army belongs to a recognized country.
And yet Hamas was elected on a moderate platform of a two state solution and anti corruption.
It was the immediate blockade, assassinations and arrest of all public Hamas party members in the West Bank that made the situation clear.
Elected 16 years ago… Let’s be clear, Hamas does not represent or protect the people of Gaza. Palestinians are the original hostages in Gaza, and they have two groups of kidnappers: Hamas and the Israeli government.
Oh definitely. But let’s not pretend this came out of nowhere. This isn’t some cartoon where the villain is just because.
The people of Gaza have been pretty clear in their support for Hamas actions on and after October 7th.
Cough… Irgun… Cough…
Pissing on my leg again.
Now all we need some stories of the IDF raping women in Gaza (might have already happened) and I think they they got the entire war crime bingo card filled out.
Haven’t seen a bioweapon yet
Does destroying basic sanitization infrastructure in a dense city, inevitably causing outbreak of various diseases, count?
Not quite, but it’s a different kind of warcrime for sure
I think gas is still blank. Anyone know if Syria has any leftover for them to use?
/s
Their regular use of white phosphorus bombs might fall under that category.
Zionists are the new Nazis.
Treat them as such.
lol most moral army in the world is war criming their own people too. they were civilians. they had surrendered. IDF be like “Me? Lie?”
The fact that they continue calling themselves the “most moral army in the world” while blatantly doing a geneva convention any% speedrun drives me up the fucking wall.
welcome to postmodern authoritarian conservatism. it premiered to the public with george dubya bush just randomly declaring victory in iraq and afghanistan knowing full well those wars would last over a decade after the declaration of victory, carried through trump just declaring that he had the biggest inauguration crowd ever, then stopped off briefly at “the election was stolen” and now its “the most moral army in the world hunts down and kills its own citizens”.
Remember the “women and girls” in Afghanistan suddenly getting sympathy from pro-war journalists the second the US pulled out?
THE TALLY VAN SHOT HER IN THE FACE CUZ SHE WANTED TO GO TO SCHOOL HASHTAG MALALA AND NOW SHE’S…wait, what? she’s a socialist? She wants to divest from fossile fuels? oh, nevermind.
Which is why we can’t allow anymore to get elected
Some say it came first when they said those four frames they released from the Pentagon security camera showed a passenger airliner.
Have you heard how many Israeli civilians likely died of friendly fire on Oct 7? Apparently “it would be inhumane to investigate” but they were shelling homes with tanks and they attacked Hamas at the rave with helicopters. Some of the eyewitnesses from the kibbutz attacks have interviews published and they’re all insane and corroborate the same things.
I’ve not seen an estimate on how many precisely but I have heard IDF soldiers quoted as saying they were operating weapons they weren’t trained on and they were just mowing down anything that moved. Kinda jives with what we’re seeing here with them killing the hostages they were there to rescue.
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This is a very narrow and low effort point of view to take when you don’t really know history. Evil, terror and war always take new forms. In this case you might say each side are nazis, but it is just a populist way to give cheap shock value statement. there is enough shocking information from hamas and idf to analyze new ways to critic what is unfolding. Fuck terror fuck war. This is a mess.
Very narrow and low effort, I agree. Was trying to generate some conversation, and it’s worked.
That said, Israel is pretty much running an open air concentration camp. They control pretty much all of the resources that the Gazans need. They targeted and bombed so many hospitals, schools, and community centers after specifically telling people to evacuate to these locations, that it’s no longer an “oopsie”, it’s an actual war crime. They’ve targeted and murdered over 60 journalists to prevent information from getting out. They’ve actively murdered people that have clearly surrendered. They’ve been caught burning food, medicine, and resources that would have helped the Gazans.
The IDF’s actions are indefensible. They have one of the most powerful, well trained, and well-funded militaries in the world, they don’t have the luxury of “accidents”, “misfires”, and “confusion” to obfuscate their actions as the weapons and tools that they have at their disposal are some of the most effective and reliable tools in the entire world. Those shelled locations are INTENTIONAL. Those murdered journalists were INTENTIONAL. Those bombed out evacuation zones were INTENTIONAL.
HAMAS is a terrorist group. The IDF are fucking Nazis.
Very narrow and low effort, I agree. Was trying to generate some conversation, and it’s worked.
trolling then, and comment still up
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It’s wild how we have simplified all modern complex issues to “it’s because of the (fill in the blank extremely popular bad guys)”
Guess it’s not worth thinking about the actual issues.
But the issues are caused by the bad guys.
Pretty convenient it’s always a nameless generic bad guy for the actual bad guys though.
Both sides aren’t Nazis. The Nazis had German-level organisation behind them. Hamas has had significant organisation (at least for 7 Oct) that is for sure, but the level of organisation behind the IDF is far greater and better coordinated.
Or do you count Quatar, Iran, Iraq, Syria, Houthies, Hezbolla, etc.? When the reality is laid out all of a sudden, it’s not just poooor little Hamas. Hamas is part of a coalition, and their goal is maximum Palestian casualties for maximum outrage by people blaming the wrong party.
You’ve forgotten that I’ve already attributed much of Hamas’ organisation to Iran in another conversation with you.
However you’re ignoring how the comment you’re replying to mentioned that Israel is far more organised. The point I’m making here is that Israel is closer to stereotypical German organisation than Hamas or its backers.
Good comment
It’s the irony that hurts.
You’re wrong ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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Removed under rule 5, keep it civil.
Removed? I still see it fine.
And really??? Over the word asshat?
Read the sidebar:
“Rule 5: Keep it civil. It’s OK to say the subject of an article is behaving like a (perjorative, perjorative). It’s NOT OK to say another USER is (perjorative). Strong language is fine, just not directed at other members. Engage in good-faith and with respect!”
You’re wrong because the Nazis were Socialist. It’s in the name.
/s because the mods are about, I wanted to let the joke fly on its own without the tag but I’m not sure that’s wise hah.
Edit2: Oof nevermind, apparently mocking people who take the “Nazis are socialist, it’s in the name” argument is too much for people.
The problem is making a statement like that is a very clear demonstration of Poe’s Law.
Because some people actually honestly believe that the Nazis were socialists, without any other indication nobody can tell if you’re being sarcastic or not.
I reflexively downvoted you before reading the second paragraph and amending my vote.
No worries lol but I would say that Poe’s law is a bit of a double edged sword - you cannot know the intention from the outset of a brief comment, you can only infer it.
I would agree that my comment could have subsequently been twisted into an “oh no, I didn’t mean that!” bullshit excuse, but I think the context of everything else I say proves that to be a false interpretation. Meanwhile, in general I like to let jokes fly and see how people react, for better or worse.
Funny that’s where you went given the Nazis where all about exterminating the Jews, while Hamas has the same exact plan, and they do every chance they get.
Did you call Allies Nazis for wanting to kill Nazis?
Did the Allies want to exterminate Germans or stop the Nazis? If they wanted to exterminate Germans they did a really bad job of it.
This sentence is so generic it could be applied to both sides, depending on what’s your opinion of either side.
They really don’t though. They’ve said multiple times now that if you give them a two state solution on the 1969 borders without an occupation then they’ll be happy.
Israel’s most formidable enemy is the truth.
On the up side, the US president is buying more artillery for the fascists
He said he’s (we’re?) Zionist. So… yeah…
I’m ready for Biden to make a more honorable move
Isreal had a right to defend itself from those hostages. Do you condemn the actions of those hostages?
I’m sure genocide Joe will do the right thing.
Its like israel was going through geneva convention just for purpose of violating every part of it
Didn’t expect more from the only nuclear-equipped nation that lies about having nukes and gets away with it.
Fuck Israel. Fuck Zionists. Zionism is the new Nazism and should be treated as such.
Zionists are the new Nazis.
Treat them as such.
Yeah but like, maybe they’ve seen those documentaries about how in some cultures white cloth is a symbol of death. You know?
Our flag (of surrender) means death!
If it turns out that they create a working two state solution I do hope that one day they merge rather than further balkanise , but who knows, the future is a myth for the strangers and the dreamers
