Activists from around the country told The Intercept that they will advocate for an anti-war agenda at the convention in August and withhold their vote in November unless an adequate candidate steps up, listing policy priorities such as support for a permanent ceasefire and standing up to the pro-Israel lobby as it intervenes in Democratic primaries. Even as the Biden campaign insists that he will not step aside, many Democrats appear to be lining up behind Vice President Kamala Harris as an alternative candidate, with some Democratic governors being floated as well.
“My number one criteria for any candidate is opposing the genocide in Gaza,” said Saad Farooq, an uncommitted voter in Massachusetts. Farooq said it was unlikely that the Democratic National Committee would select any candidate who took a stance against Israel’s ongoing war, and that he would support Green Party candidate Jill Stein if she were to appear on the ballot in Massachusetts.
Will Dawson, an uncommitted voter in Washington, D.C., named several factors that could get him to switch his vote from the Green Party’s Stein to another politician. First on his list is a promise to call for an immediate ceasefire and fighting the influence of the pro-Israel lobby and the American Israel Public Affairs Committee in Congress.
“This candidate would also ideally work toward pulling further away from the Israeli colonial project over time, with the goal being repealing our absurd financial support, ending the foreign interest agency of AIPAC, and pushing for a nation-wide boycott a la [South Africa] during their apartheid,” Dawson wrote.
The candidate would also have to push to reform the Supreme Court, he added. “The candidate would have to promise to both push for justice impeachment, and expand the courts,” Dawson said.“If a replacement candidate met both of these requirements, I would absolutely consider switching my vote from Jill Stein. Hell, I might even knock doors/canvass for them!”
Nothing is improved by Trump being elected; for Gazans , for Israelis, for Americans, or anyone else.
If Trump gets elected, he’d show Israel what real genocide looks like.
Yeah anyone who is uncommitted because of Gaza, either was never gonna vote, or is lying to pollsters and is manipulating polls.
Which is why we need to run a candidate with a shot of beating trump…
It’s too important of an election to let Joe have one more go out of nostalgia.
It would be easiest for everyone if he stepped aside, but he’s not willing to.
It blows my mind that people can argue that Trump is the worst possible outcome for our country and the world, and then follow that up with “we need a candidate that can beat Trump”. If everyone knows what is at stake (democracy), how is Biden not capable of beating Trump? Do people think that not voting, or voting 3rd party is going to somehow keep Trump out of the white house? Anything but a vote for Biden (or whoever ends up on the ticket opposite Trump) is who everyone needs to vote for, or they have chosen Trump and doomed us all.
Do you think it’s easier to convince 10s of millions of voter’s minds?
Or get Joe Biden to understand that polls show people don’t want him and that the best thing he can do to prevent trump is step aside.
Seriously.
Please provide some evidence to support your claim that the best thing Biden can do to prevent Trump getting elected is to step aside.
The post-debate Data for Progress poll tested the odds of eight Democrats who have been floated as possible alternatives to Biden, including Vice President Kamala Harris and multiple Democratic governors. Biden’s self-proclaimed advantage is tempered by the lack of name recognition — so far — for the other options. Aside from Harris, prospective voters were so unfamiliar with these Democratic leaders that between 39 and 71 percent* *of respondents said they hadn’t heard enough about them to have an opinion. Even so, each potential candidate performed the same or even better than Biden.
You kind of buried the lede there:
Overall, these results show that voters continue to be concerned about Biden’s age — but there is not yet clear evidence that an alternative nominee would significantly outperform him against Trump in a head-to-head matchup.
That’s evidence that some candidates poll similarly to Biden.
That’s not evidence the best thing Biden can do to stop Trump from becoming president is drop out.
Didn’t really bury it because I don’t agree with that analysis and it’s not part of the poll.
If they’re polling similar to him with 39%-71% of the people not knowing who the candidate is that means their floor is where Biden is.
Something something, warm water ports
Do you think anyone on this forum has a direct line to Biden?
Such a troll take
My brain injured itself trying to understand your point
I can’t say for certain what caused the injury, but I’m sure we can all agree that there is an injury.
Oh look. Same person who shows up at any anti-Biden post trying to convince people not to vote for Biden, but stops just short of saying they want Trump to win.
Let’s see all your “genocide Joe” type of comments directed to all the GOP members in Congress who happily support Israel’s efforts.
or if Biden is elected
maybe a few miniscule scraps will make to the people but nothing progressive or meaningful
our lives are worse than four, eight, twelve, sixteen, or however many four years you want to go back our lives get worse every election no matter who wins
some of have waited our whole lives for a change with parents and grandparents who have done the same
You’re beyond stupid if you vote for Cheeto Chimp.
Tell that to my friends who’s parents weren’t allowed to get married until our lifetimes or who’s great grandparents were classified as 3/5ths of a person
I recall Democrats not getting on board with gay marriage equality until after polling showed it to be more popular than banning gay marriage.
You mean they got elected by gasp giving voters what they wanted???
I.E.; not actually leading the charge for human rights, following along only when not doing so would have hurt their standing, and taking credit for reluctant half-measures implemented through the courts (and overturned just as easily by current courts) rather than having put in the effort to amend the bill of rights or at least to pass a federal law while they had the chance.
And we didn’t abolish slavery for 89 years after declaring independence. We can absolutely agree change is usually painfully, unnecessarily, terribly slow but it does happen, requiring time, work, and sacrifice
our lives are worse than four, eight, twelve, sixteen, or however many four years you want to go back our lives get worse every election no matter who wins
Is what I was replying to and it’s objectively false.
An important caveat is that positive societal change is absolutely not inevitable, generations have fought to improve the injustices of their times and we must carry on their legacy lest we allow their sacrifices to be in vain
I getcha.
Yeah, the necessity of our current times seems to be following that 80-year generational cycle…
What’s sad to me is how all of this has seemed inevitable since at least as far back as the DNC boosting Trump and conspiring against Bernie in 2016. I couldn’t have guessed the form it’d take, but I knew that our Von Hindenburg Moment was on the way since the '08 crash got followed up by the astroturfed Tea Party pulling Republicans to the right while Occupy Wall Street went nowhere at all.
What’s scary is that I still can’t see even a vague outline of the future past 2025. I wouldn’t even bet we’re having elections in 2028, much less what Trump will do with the new criminal immunity for presidential acts and a supreme court majority in his back pocket.
Nobody’s coming to save us, so it’s up to us to save each other.
I getcha.
Yeah, the necessity of our current times seems to be following that 80-year generational cycle…
What’s sad to me is how all of this has seemed inevitable since at least as far back as the DNC boosting Trump and conspiring against Bernie in 2016. I couldn’t have guessed the form it’d take, but I knew that our Von Hindenburg Moment was on the way since the '08 crash got followed up by the astroturfed Tea Party pulling Republicans to the right while Occupy Wall Street went nowhere at all.
What’s scary is that I still can’t see even a vague outline of the future past 2025. I wouldn’t even bet we’re having elections in 2028, much less what Trump will do with the new criminal immunity for presidential acts and a supreme court majority in his back pocket.
Nobody’s coming to save us, so it’s up to us to save each other.
They weren’t fully on board until after Obergefell, when they started taking credit for the courts doing what they were too timid to do via legislation.
So edgy.
Gaza is not on the ballot. Democracy is. End of discussion.
Gonna be a whole lot of Pikachu face on progressive faces.
Those progressive votes might come in handy. But if Democrats don’t want to put it on the ballot they must be very confident in their victory.
Of course they are. Threads like these are full of die-hard blue party voters who refuse to hear any criticism.
Those “progressives” are either Republicans under a different flag, or complete morons who won’t vote Biden when the choice is Biden or Trump.
Come November, if the choice is Biden or Trump, anyone not voting for Biden is helping Trump. Plain and simple.
Jeremy Corbyn won his election in the UK two days ago. His campaign point was Gaza.
The supreme court reform is also not on the ballot. Then what is?
Republicans have their electorate getting the pages of project 2025 all sticky. What do democrats have? Another four years of kicking the can? Same promises as the last time but this time for real?
The Supreme Court is absolutely on the ballot. It always is.
Nah, the DNC went back to the 2016 playbook. It’s “His Turn” now and nothing is going to convince them otherwise. There aren’t even any promises, just the demand for our votes and the automatic assumption that anyone who isn’t a Biden stan is either a Trump stan or a Russian bot.
Yes I can see why you’d think they haven’t talked about policies at all, not paying any attention at all to anything must make it seem like that.
In other words, people who are uncommitted at this stage are absolute morons.
And a danger to themselves and everybody else.
What the fuck is wrong with people. Number one criteria for president is dealing with a small scale civil/proxy war.
Meanwhile in Sudan, Ukraine, China, Myanmar, etc. there are millions more people being killed/impacted by genocidal governments and these don’t even make the list of anyone giving a shit when it comes to presidential choice.
Meanwhile the entire world economy is falling apart for the average person.
Meanwhile there’s a drug epidemic (somewhat related to the last one) killing around 100,000 Americans a year.
If your number one criteria is the Palestinian war you are either Palestinian(totally okay) or you have no idea how to prioritize your life in a rational manner and should not be allowed to vote.
I think it should be pretty clear, right? It’s different because America is helping them commit genocide. It’s not like this is all happening separately from us and people are calling for some kind of foreign intervention, they’re asking that we stop helping the people doing a genocide.
That’s not to say it’s my only priority this election, but it’s definitely up there, because I, like many Americans, feel like I’m complicit to some degree.
Make no mistake, though, Trump would be far worse. I still know the score here, but I can understand why it ranks highly on people’s priorities.
I don’t mind it being a priority, only it being the top criteria. Someone who says it’s their most important priority displays a significant lack of awareness for what’s happening in the country and in the world.
I take your point and agree, actually. Single issue voters are always a nuisance though, and these ones are nothing new.
Also worth noting that we similarly have blood on our hands for a lack of support for Ukraine. All that time that the US political system was bogged down and unable to send aid meant they had to pay the cost to hold the line in manpower instead, so I can understand the frustration.
But there is a huge difference between intervention and stopping support for an ally that is RIGHT NEXT TO RUSSIA. Like do they even think that it’s not a strategic decision? Is it the best take? No. Is it the best place to be in? No. But pissing off an ally we have had for 50 years is also a bad decision. Maybe weigh the options here.
Except Israel has been talking about starting another invasion against Hezbollah…
Who have a defensive treaty with Russia, Iran, and a couple others.
An ally that starts wars isn’t a good ally.
They’re not providing a strategic advantage, they’re dragging us into large scale multi-country war.
It would likely get tied up with Ukraine as well, and get us to a legit WW3.
Because Biden won’t cut weapons to Israel and has spent 50 years saying there’s no line that Israel could cross
Edit:
RIGHT NEXT TO RUSSIA.
I googled it…
Israel is 3,700 some miles away from Russia. That’s wider than America
Unnm hezbollah is launching rockets at Israel
If one of those rockets hits the chemical plant in Haifa the whole city could go up. Pretty sure that’s valid provocation
But folks like to pretend Israel has no valid reason to protect itself, despite being under constant attack for the past 80 years
What are they protecting by committing genocide in Gaza?
It’s on the same continent. And a big reason why Russia is where they are with the Middle East. My point is that it’s not so simple to just stop with someone who is in the area against our biggest enemy. As well as another nuclear power. Pissing them off may not be a good formula. Even if they are doing shitty things. It’s not a black and white decision to stop helping when they have been receiving it for 50 plus years.
It’s on the same continent
Just about 50% further away than America is wide…
Like, did you think putting something in all caps meant sarcasm?
Usually people do it to show that they’re being literal.
Did you just not know and instead of admitting it you’re trying to say that you knew it was 3,700 miles away and intentionally said that was close?
Pissing them off may not be a good formula. Even if they are doing shitty things.
-
Genocide that we’re violating international law to supply munitions for is not “shitty things”
-
Pissing them off? By telling them to stop the current genocide or not to attack another foreign government at the same time that’s allied with multiple nuclear powers?
It’s not a black and white decision to stop helping when they have been receiving it for 50 plus years.
Well, that’s sunk cost fallacy… And over those 50 years almost every US president has had to threaten to cut off aid to prevent it from progressing to this. It wasn’t till Biden came into office after 50 years of saying he’ll always support Israel for them to take it this far. Biden isn’t going to stop, and neither is Israel
I’m just trying to get your pov, but I can’t follow it logically
No. I’m saying not involving an ocean and being right next to Ukraine is a lot closer. But I guess you don’t know anything about logistics or strategy when it comes to war. So do you. Keep thinking it’s an easy choice. I’m done arguing about distances on a map when it is much closer than we are.
No. I’m saying not involving an ocean and being right next to Ukraine is a lot closer
What?
In both cases Russia and Israel are partly invading to get ocean access, but you’re coming out of nowhere with that…
Like, none of what you’re saying is making any sense.
Did you mean to reply to someone else?
I’m done arguing about distances on a map when it is much closer than we are.
Closer than we are to what?
You mean Israel is closer to Russia than America?
That’s not true either.
But like, you’re the one that only wants to talk about the distance you were wrong about, there’s lots of other wrong things you said I’m trying to explain here…
-
But there is a huge difference between intervention and stopping support for an ally that is RIGHT NEXT TO RUSSIA.
I really should start keeping a list of the reprehensible justifications for continued support for Netanyahu’s genocide.
Yes. Because I am justifying killing people by saying it’s more complicated than people like you are making it. Dumb take.
You’re making excuses for genocide.
And nothing else.
Hell, you’re even downplaying it by referring to it as just “killing people.” Though I’m glad you refer to Palestinians as people.
No I’m not. I’m saying it’s complicated. Your inability to comprehend that means you are not smart enough to debate with me.
I comprehend your excuses just fine. I’m not buying them.
Concession accepted.
If your number one criteria is the Palestinian war you are either Palestinian(totally okay) or you have no idea how to prioritize your life in a rational manner and should not be allowed to vote
No longer will I need to wonder how the Germans let the Holocaust happen.
Last I checked the Jews weren’t trying to slaughter Germans when the holocaust happened. The Jews never told the germans “you have no right to exist” or “we want to rape and murder you because you’re German”
Meanwhile Islamic extremism groups have spent decades telling Israelis exactly that
What?
https://www.hmd.org.uk/resource/first-they-came-by-pastor-martin-niemoller/
First they came for the Communists And I did not speak out Because I was not a Communist Then they came for the Socialists And I did not speak out Because I was not a Socialist Then they came for the trade unionists And I did not speak out Because I was not a trade unionist Then they came for the Jews And I did not speak out Because I was not a Jew Then they came for me And there was no one left To speak out for me
Removed by mod
Do you think Palestine is in Europe?
And why are you calling a genocide a war? Because the victims have been resisting?
And you’re ignoring literally everything else I said, which is exactly my point.
And you’re ignoring literally everything else I said
I mean, when talking about geopolitics, the “geo” part is fundamentally important…
It would have been nice if you apologized, but fine we’ll move on to the next sentence:
Meanwhile in Sudan, Ukraine, China, Myanmar, etc. there are millions more people being killed/impacted by genocidal governments and these don’t even make the list of anyone giving a shit when it comes to presidential choice.
In which of those is the US providing munitions to the attackers against international and domestic laws for them to carry out a genocide?
Quick edit:
Were you going to answer this:
And why are you calling a genocide a war? Because the victims have been resisting?
There’s just so much wrong with your first comment, it’s hard to address it all.
But I’m willing to help explain it so you can understand. This is pretty important stuff. We cleared up that Israel isn’t in Europe pretty quickly. So I’m optimistic on the rest.
The US could stop what’s happening in multiple of those countries. Does non-action not count towards death tolls? If you have the ability to pull a level that lets 20 people live, is it not your fault if you choose not to pull that lever and they die?
Also, what level of support matters? What if instead of sending munitions they only sent money, would that be a problem? What if instead of money they only sent food, which frees up their own money to buy munitions? The fun thing about the global economy is that almost anything is fungible at scale. Hell, if you look behind the curtains there are US goods and services being used in Russia to attack Ukraine right now, it’s just flowing through third parties first to obscure the transactions. The government may not be sending it directly, but America is benefiting from it.
The US though has provided both direct and non-direct support causing genocides in multiple places even in the last 20 years. George W Bush got re-elected while the Iraq war was happening, and that killed a couple hundred thousand civilians, which is what… 6 times the current Gazan death toll? Not to mention Afghanistan which was it’s own problem on top of that.
Yes, Palestine vs Israel is a war. It’s not automatically a genocide just because one side is absolutely wiping the floor with the other. It’s been a war since literally the day after Israel was founded, FIVE arab countries invaded Israel the moment the British Protectorate ended because they didn’t like the UN agreed upon borders. People seem to ignore this fact for some reason because it’s inconvenient to their “truth”.
You’re smart, so I’m hoping you’re smart enough to follow the money. The US and the west are funding Israel. Why? I’ll give you a hint, it has nothing to do with Palestinians, and everything to do with who is funding the Palestinians.
The truth behind of all of this is that both the Israelis and the Palestinians are mostly just being used by others in a proxy war, Hamas is fully funded and armed from outside of Gaza by foreign groups, they have effectively no local income or production related to the fighting other than supplying the people to die.
So why would the US and allies care? Because if Iran and group take out Israel (as is their stated goal) the US ability to control Iran will be diminished and Iran can then become a bigger threat to the western world.
And that’s how Geopolitics work.
Also, what level of support matters?
Well, with the genocide in Gaza, Israel literally would have ran out of munitions and would have had to stop months ago…
If Biden hadnt kept giving them.
But Israel is in no way a “proxy” they should be, but Biden lets them drive the car all the way to Genocide town.
Bibi wants to genocide Palestine, and take their land.
He ain’t exactly subtle about it, members of his government keep saying it out loud even.
You’re obviously very opinionated about this, you’re just wrong…
About almost everything you said so far I’m honestly curious. Where are you getting your information to form these opinions?
Because if Iran and group take out Israel (as is their stated goal) the US ability to control Iran will be diminished and Iran can then become a bigger threat to the western world.
Even that.
If Iran attacks Israel, it’s going to be because Israel keeps attacking Hezbollah, and Iran is one of the country’s they have a defensive treaty with
Israel is the one starting shit in the Middle East
No, not Biden, the USA. Where’s your critical commentary against the GOP who overwhelmingly supports Israel’s actions? Your one note anti-Biden posts are tiring.
Go plant some sunflowers.
“I’m just wrong”
Israel does want the land. So does Palestine and the supporting countries, they’re also on record stating they want to eliminate Israel.
That’s kind of what defines a war most of the time.
“If Iran attacks Israel” You say that like it’s a hypothetical, have you already forgotten the 100+ drones and missiles they lobbed at Israel on April 13th?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2024_Iranian_strikes_against_Israel
As I said before, and as you completely ignored. The British protectorate ended on May 14th, 1947 and on May 15th a coalition of Arab states invaded Israel. They did so because they did not like the borders set by the UN and wanted more territory. Tell me again how it’s Israel that started this shit?
Israel does want the land. So does Palestine
What?!
Palestine wants the land inside Palestine’s borders?!
You’re right, that totally warrants a genocide y
/s
Sorry, I haven’t heard anything about civilian deaths so far. I’m pretty sure everyone that’s died in Gaza so far has been Hamas.
Innocent aid workers are Hamas?
Kids?
If you’re legitimately unaware of the war crimes being committed in Gaza, you might want to run some Google searches.
Yeah those dead toddlers were definitely hamas. /s
“I’m going to show my anger by making things exponentially worse for myself! That’ll show them!”
During the debate Trump said that Israel would finish the job with him elected. In my eyes that’s more/less try to eradicate the Palestinians.
… how can there still be people who think not voting for Biden is a better bet for Gaza? Like really: open your eyes.
You’d prefer to either not vote, vote third party (throw your vote away), or vote for someone who has more or less said they’d continue to support killing innocent people.
Biden isn’t great but is more likely to aim for a ceasefire and some sort of peace than Trump.
It’s the lesser of evils.
… of course voting for Trump is likely pushing the US towards fascism as well, but I’ll ignore that for this (and him being a felon, accused rapist, advocate for the wealthy at the expense of all others, liar, etc) specific comment.
“We need to move to the right to pick up undecided voters”
“Undecided voters want to stop supporting Netanyahu’s genocide.”
“Man, fuck undecided voters. No one needs them. They’re all morons. Let’s ignore them and move to the right.”
It’s not that simple, if gaining undecided votes comes at the cost of more votes than they gain then you’re not going to win. That has been the struggle of the Dems for decades on every progressive issue.
And they continue to assume that they can only pick up more votes by moving to the right.
Party leadership interprets all sensory input as an indicator that they get to move to the right.
Parties don’t decide where the country moves politically, citizens do. If you want people to move left, you have to put in the work to change minds. You don’t sway people at the ballot box. All voting is, is a poll of what people already think and parties try to match their candidates to that poll. The reason our politicians are terrible, is because our people are.
Party leadershit isn’t responsive to the will of the voters.
What I’m saying is, if you only show up on voting day and just complain all other days don’t be surprised when the country moves right. Political change happens every single day of the year, voting is just the political act that reflects that work. We get wet farts like Biden because little of the work is done by the left the make substantive change to our culture. Much of the left views whining as a political act and no more.
Move to the right and blame the left.
Politicians aren’t activists, you’re just confused on how the system works. If you want politicians to change the only thing you can do is apply pressure through their constituents. That means changing minds and motivating people to action. Politicians want to stay in office and largely will be swayed by a shift in public opinion. The right wing is winning because their brand of crazy is highly motivated. It’s easier to moan on the Internet than change minds and change laws.
But changing laws is not as hard as most people believe. A handful of motivated people can change a state law simply by convincing people in their district to call and apply pressure on their behalf. Constituent lobbying is incredibly effective, 10 people convince 10 people each to apply pressure to the right people and suddenly a 45/55 vote becomes 51/49 seemingly over night. I’ve been a part of that more than once to great success. You just gotta put in the work.
Changing minds is harder though, we are competing against media conglomerates that mostly don’t care about truth. But it can happen with work.
Over time that work translates into different politicians, the state I’m in (Minnesota) keeps inching left a hair at a time because the work that is needed keeps happening. It doesn’t happen fast, but it does happen.
those aren’t the undecided votes we want
They aren’t undecided at all. They know exactly what they are doing and it is absolutely not about Gaza at all. If they were truly concerned about Gaza they would not be undecided at all because there is only one viable choice.
The choice between a kindly old man that’s trying to get two sides that want war to agree to a ceasefire and a criminal, authoritarian, mean, and petty old man that will just tell one side to bomb the other into oblivion… civilian casualties be damned.
If people are “uncommitted” it’s because they don’t know what’s going on.
It’s because they are liars and don’t actually care about that issue at all. If they were truly concerned they would see the situation in front of them and make the only real logical choice.
Oh phew. I thought people were getting encumbered with all the rape, personal failings, inciting insurrection, misuse of campaign funds, misappropriation of state secrets, hypocrisy, bringing personal feelings and emoluments into state dealings, and being generally incompetent and other unlikeable things. Priorities, people! /s
inb4 thread gets overrun with “but Trump would be worse” and “we have to vote Biden” as if uncommitted voters didn’t demand their single requirement months ago which Biden could have easily endorsed and easily won this election.
Not to mention Israel still gets 6 months for more genocidal insanity regardless of who wins.
I mean Biden didn’t bring out the military to beat protesters and international news media up to walk across the street to hold up a Bible. Protesters haven’t been swept up in unmarked vans, or tell his detail to beat up a protester at a rally.
My point is that Trump isn’t going to let these people protest Israel in the U.S like that if he wins. So yes, people are going to say “but Trump will be worse”
Removed by mod
If your priority is Gaza at this point, you’re either Gazan or brain dead.
