Im plenty critical of militant vegans, but thats a bit unfair. Industrial ranching is a big contributor to climate change, theres a well-reasoned argument I see alot
I mean the difference is that concrete has a function and is largely irreplaceable. The argument most vegans make is that animals are not functionally needed in order to fulfill the “food” requirement of living. Concrete is, by large, used for houses and structures which provide shelter, and there are no viable alternatives.
For sure, but that applies to literally everything - decarbonization of the energy grid/moving away from gas is a huge factor for literally every aspect of life, particularly farming and red meat. The energy involved in creating meat is significantly higher than any other foods, which is why I disagreed with your point. We have an alternative for meat, but there isnt one for concrete. Using it as a comparison is a poor argument.
Arguing that conditionally essential amino acids are not found elsewhere is a misleading argument. In addition to the fact that all of those three can be created by your body, Taurine is found in lentils, a staple of many vegan diets, seaweed can contain creatine, and carnitine can be found in trace amounts in most foods. None of them are as dense as meat, for sure, but there are numerous sources, plus supplements.
To reduce the environmental impact of food, which applies to all food and not just meat, we need to accept the idea of not having excess of everything. We don’t need 5 different cuts of meat from 3 different brands. We don’t need 5 different kinds of apples. We don’t need a whole shopping isle filled with… Goodness knows how many different kinds of cereal.
Definitely agree with this, but its probably just as hard a sell, and much less feasible to do on an individual level.
The problem there is people in cities could not do it, in many cities it’s illegal or not feasible to raise chickens or goats, or to hunt or even trap.
I don’t think most of those people are going to go for that rule, you’d likely have black market agriculture happening, and that hasn’t been working so well for drugs these days. Gonna get turkey laced with fent and shit lol. Good luck with that though!
… What? Humans are made of meat. As far a I’ve read, they’re fairly delicious, too. Eating carnivores is also fine.
Now, if you’re trying to only eat the safest, most energy efficient forms of meat, don’t eat people or carnivores. But just in terms of the nutrients contained within, meat is meat.
Okay, real talk, I don’t really care what they do to the animals after they’re dead, as long as it’s hygienic.
The real problem is how they are treated during their lives, and how they’re killed. There are farms ranging from pretty bad to “absolutely horrible hellish shit you wouldn’t believe” bad.
Okay, real talk, the concept of ethics in general is a human construct. One that is impossible to apply across all cultures, and even when they are accepted as social mores, they are illogically applied and are often full of internal contradictions.
For example, if it’s unethical to “kill someone who’s done nothing to you and didn’t want to die.”, then can we assume it’s ethical to kill something that has slighted us? Or is it okay to kill something that isn’t conscious of it’s mortality?
How do we determine if something doesn’t want to die? How do we delineate the difference between something like zooplankton or krill from plants?
I don’t really eat meat, but that’s mostly for health and environmental harm reduction. However, I understand that humans are imperfect beings, and have different social mores to adhere too. Out of all the evil man has unleashed over our evolution, I would hardly say that consuming animal products is anywhere close to the top of the list.
Plus, I think the way the west classifies veganism is a bit culturally insensitive. Different cultures subscribe to different interpretations of attributes when defining traits to life forms than in the west.
For example, there are Buddhist monks in Korea that eat a “vegan diet”, except their kimchi is made with krill. Now if you ask if they eat meat or animals, they will tell you no. However, culturally krill aren’t really considered an animal, they’re viewed more as a plant.
I would hardly call a person who’s spent their entire lives living off of plants a carnist or “bloodmouth”, just because they eat a little krill. But, I would like to hear your opinion on the matter.
Even a wounded animal is going to respond physically to the sound of a saw. Then you have to consider what will happen when the half dead body of a 900lb pig is placed on a cold steel plate and slowly pushed into a sharp fast moving band saw. A half alive pig would take a few people to hold it down and get the job done.
If you go ass first, damn things would probably kick and scream for a good 5 minutes before it would succumb to the injuries. Would be better to go head first really.
On second thought, for the health of the consumer, the food meat animal would need to be gutted before it was cut on the band saw. Yeah, gutting a half living meat sack would be much harder than a dead one. Very awkward. Maybe if it were dead enough it might even live for an extra few minutes. One might say that would be an advantage over being killed instantly with a bolt to the skull. You had a few more minutes of life, no matter how painful they might have been.
Paralysed maybe, not able to move our scream. A soft gloved hand stroking the skin. A cold, sharp pinch as a gutting knife quickly penetrates your body. Just a few more seconds now. The blade expertly guided up the abdomen. The flow of warm blood flowing over the legs. A sudden feeling of coldness as the blood drains, one last breath taken. Never exhaled.
Well, if you want your food to make you feel like a good person, you know what to do. Or you can keep repressing your feelings about food. Your choice.
Yeah I often don’t pay. I slit animal’s throats and butcher them myself if sausage/ground meat is the intent. Real butcher i pay if I want nicely cut steaks.
Anyone who pays for animals to be killed for their pleasure is an animal abuser and a piece of shit.
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Im plenty critical of militant vegans, but thats a bit unfair. Industrial ranching is a big contributor to climate change, theres a well-reasoned argument I see alot
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I mean the difference is that concrete has a function and is largely irreplaceable. The argument most vegans make is that animals are not functionally needed in order to fulfill the “food” requirement of living. Concrete is, by large, used for houses and structures which provide shelter, and there are no viable alternatives.
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For sure, but that applies to literally everything - decarbonization of the energy grid/moving away from gas is a huge factor for literally every aspect of life, particularly farming and red meat. The energy involved in creating meat is significantly higher than any other foods, which is why I disagreed with your point. We have an alternative for meat, but there isnt one for concrete. Using it as a comparison is a poor argument.
Arguing that conditionally essential amino acids are not found elsewhere is a misleading argument. In addition to the fact that all of those three can be created by your body, Taurine is found in lentils, a staple of many vegan diets, seaweed can contain creatine, and carnitine can be found in trace amounts in most foods. None of them are as dense as meat, for sure, but there are numerous sources, plus supplements.
Definitely agree with this, but its probably just as hard a sell, and much less feasible to do on an individual level.
Fair point>
They said: anyone
That’s very different from a specific complaint about factory farming and industrial ranching
Humans need their factory meat. Even back in the stone ages
So you’re fine with hunting and small scale agriculture I take it?
I’d be fine with there being a rule that you can only kill/eat what you’ve raised yourself. No selling.
I think that would make a lot of people think twice, if the taste is worth the effort.
The problem there is people in cities could not do it, in many cities it’s illegal or not feasible to raise chickens or goats, or to hunt or even trap.
No one is forcing them to live in a concrete prison.
I mean I agree, I prefer rural. I’m told however that nobody else does and that is why cities exist.
fair
Exactly.
I don’t think most of those people are going to go for that rule, you’d likely have black market agriculture happening, and that hasn’t been working so well for drugs these days. Gonna get turkey laced with fent and shit lol. Good luck with that though!
It could easily be law. I can definitely see governments “revoking” people’s “freedom” to kill animals willy-nilly.
I agree. The sooner we switch to a partial cannibalistic diet the sooner we can settle this. There, I’ve confused everyone.
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Fuck I love having materials from other lifeforms inside of me
Same
… What? Humans are made of meat. As far a I’ve read, they’re fairly delicious, too. Eating carnivores is also fine.
Now, if you’re trying to only eat the safest, most energy efficient forms of meat, don’t eat people or carnivores. But just in terms of the nutrients contained within, meat is meat.
What if I don’t enjoy it but still pay for it anyway?
Okay, but why would you do that? If you don’t like it, don’t put it in your face.
Well that’s just senseless violence
How’s your restaurant these days? Lol
oh yeah, tell me how disgusting I am for eating a poor little piggy 😳
The pig was likely gassed or shot to death. Its body was then cut in half with a large saw, then hung on a conveyor to be dismembered.
Okay, real talk, I don’t really care what they do to the animals after they’re dead, as long as it’s hygienic.
The real problem is how they are treated during their lives, and how they’re killed. There are farms ranging from pretty bad to “absolutely horrible hellish shit you wouldn’t believe” bad.
Okay, real talk, there’s no ethical way to kill someone who’s done nothing to you and didn’t want to die.
We should therefore be farming boomers instead. Gimme those daddy steaks
Okay, real talk, the concept of ethics in general is a human construct. One that is impossible to apply across all cultures, and even when they are accepted as social mores, they are illogically applied and are often full of internal contradictions.
For example, if it’s unethical to “kill someone who’s done nothing to you and didn’t want to die.”, then can we assume it’s ethical to kill something that has slighted us? Or is it okay to kill something that isn’t conscious of it’s mortality?
How do we determine if something doesn’t want to die? How do we delineate the difference between something like zooplankton or krill from plants?
I don’t really eat meat, but that’s mostly for health and environmental harm reduction. However, I understand that humans are imperfect beings, and have different social mores to adhere too. Out of all the evil man has unleashed over our evolution, I would hardly say that consuming animal products is anywhere close to the top of the list.
Plus, I think the way the west classifies veganism is a bit culturally insensitive. Different cultures subscribe to different interpretations of attributes when defining traits to life forms than in the west.
For example, there are Buddhist monks in Korea that eat a “vegan diet”, except their kimchi is made with krill. Now if you ask if they eat meat or animals, they will tell you no. However, culturally krill aren’t really considered an animal, they’re viewed more as a plant.
I would hardly call a person who’s spent their entire lives living off of plants a carnist or “bloodmouth”, just because they eat a little krill. But, I would like to hear your opinion on the matter.
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Awwwwwww, thank you! I’m glad you think I’m adorable 😊
Good thing a pig isn’t someone.
Why?
Because pig is not person…
Why does a pig have no right not to be harmed?
I agree, but we don’t like to use pig as a slang term for police here. Do better.
Fuck, I’ve called cops pigs, I don’t get your point.
Are you saying pigs should have guns or that we should eat cops. I’m honestly down for either.
I know you don’t get it hun, that’s okay. You can ask your mom to explain it to you when you’re older.
Animals aren’t people wtf.
Livestock animals deserve far better than they get, but comparing their lives to humans is absurd
Neither are conservatives, but I’m not about to slaughter them and fry them up.
Ah Lemmy, just rattling off casual murder
Exactly. I took the position opposed to the slaughtering and you casually took the pro-killing position.
Of course animals aren’t people. Some animals are cool.
Yeah, and taste awesome with BBQ sauce!
On the Internet, nobody knows you’re a dog
Thank God it’s shot to death, it would be really awkward if it was just wounded
Tell me more why that would be awkward.
Even a wounded animal is going to respond physically to the sound of a saw. Then you have to consider what will happen when the half dead body of a 900lb pig is placed on a cold steel plate and slowly pushed into a sharp fast moving band saw. A half alive pig would take a few people to hold it down and get the job done.
If you go ass first, damn things would probably kick and scream for a good 5 minutes before it would succumb to the injuries. Would be better to go head first really.
On second thought, for the health of the consumer, the food meat animal would need to be gutted before it was cut on the band saw. Yeah, gutting a half living meat sack would be much harder than a dead one. Very awkward. Maybe if it were dead enough it might even live for an extra few minutes. One might say that would be an advantage over being killed instantly with a bolt to the skull. You had a few more minutes of life, no matter how painful they might have been.
Paralysed maybe, not able to move our scream. A soft gloved hand stroking the skin. A cold, sharp pinch as a gutting knife quickly penetrates your body. Just a few more seconds now. The blade expertly guided up the abdomen. The flow of warm blood flowing over the legs. A sudden feeling of coldness as the blood drains, one last breath taken. Never exhaled.
BRB! My bacon is ready.
Wait come back, I’d almost finished
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right in the plant feels
Careful, you’ll trigger the “you can’t prove plants can’t feel pain” cascade. It’s a very annoying subroutine.
I raise by fodder inefficiency and take them by their word to reduce suffering.
The best part is that farming animals kills more plants than just eating them directly
Actually you have me convinced now, gonna go chow down on a cow. I fucking hate plants 😡🌲🔪
Finally
You’re filthy. A worm! You horrid little slut
Thank you sir may I have another!
Oh, don’t tease me, I need more
please don’t slutshame.
…or wormshame.
I might just buy hamburger tonight to spite you now lol
Wow you showed him epic style
Okay cool, have fun abusing animals out of spite. I hope you’re still able to think of yourself as a good person
They will and they will, most likely.
Okay cool, I’m specifically going to have lamb for lunch right now, because not only is it meat, but it’s baby meat.
This is what vegans winning looks like.
Cool, have fun eating dead baby.
I’m going to feed my cat meat that I purchased at the grocery store! And share some with her!
I did! and it was delicious, because I covered the flesh with butter from its mother!
I’m sure it made you feel like a good person
why the fuck would I care about that? it’s food. it made me feel sated and happy.
also: seasoned with vegan tears.
Well, if you want your food to make you feel like a good person, you know what to do. Or you can keep repressing your feelings about food. Your choice.
so… the majority of people? or specifically people in meat processing?
Yeah I often don’t pay. I slit animal’s throats and butcher them myself if sausage/ground meat is the intent. Real butcher i pay if I want nicely cut steaks.
No way this guy is not a shill from big meat